Patman

Pretty much anyone around who gives a damn knows where I stand on the issue.

So, no one is forcing me to post here. When it becomes too much of a hassle. I'll quit. No biggie.

I'm just amazed at the amount of tunnel vision and dedication some people have in avoiding the previews. Truly, it's an amazing talent. I akin it to almost being in a selective sensory deprivation tank sometimes.

Anyhow, kudos on naming a "winner" between the polling is closed. That was a strange way to conduct a poll IMO.

I find it lucky that there are shows on that people give more than a rat's hairs about, and want to discuss current storylines and anticipate storylines. I call it active participation. I guess others are happy with passive participation: they watch, they review, they wait.

Blade

Sorry, I should have edited this thread too.

If you read the poll, I explained the history of my actions a little better. It was based on responses in Buffy thread that made me realize that this wasn't a universally held opinion, that's why I put up the poll.

My mistake. I'll edit this thread right after I post this.

RandyM

Since the poll seems to be about 50/50, and as one who thinks the promos should be fair game for discussion, how about:

Instead of 2 seperate threads, I'd much rather put any comments I have about the promos in spoiler tags. 2 threads would just split people in half and we wouldn't have near as much discussion as one main thread. The only problem might be true spoilers that no one want to know.

Good:

Bad:

As long as people know that if they have a real spoiler to put it in a seperate (well marked) thread, I think both camps could live with this.

Slumbering Fist

As the person whose inadvertent blunder pretty much launched the mess this week... I’m 50/50... I have always, usually, preferred spoilers concerning the next week previews*. It has never killed me to read a preview or speculation because I sometimes watch the previews just as a further way to remind me Buffy is new next week, or by being a Buffy fan I will inadvertently run across the info (like last weeks ep). While I’ve never accidentally read a preview that I thought ruined the show, I can identify with the need to stay fresh and green from week to week, wanting each episode to be a surprise.

I say tag away, just institute it as a common practice, instead of making seperate threads, that way it will probably help decrease the chance it occuring in other threads- starting the whole mess over agian. Eventually, if people can tolerate a slip or two (since they will happen) it will become an unspoken rule.


*my mistake was, the day of the show, saying basically the key element that the show focused on in my heading- info I accidentally included because it was info openly discussed by the shows creators for months (and in other Buffy threads) that I accidentally took for granted was not common knowledge. And, it was the end of the day and I thought my heading was funny, so that didn’t help me think straight*

Blade

Ok, I was hoping to get a very lopsided majority vote one way or the other, but as of right now, it's 19 yes votes, to 24 no votes.

Based on this, I'm going to have to go with asking folks to use spoiler tags on teasers.

I know that more people want to forgo using spoiler tags, but doing this risks ruining the fun of almost half the people who post here. The purpose of this forum is one of enjoyment, and while using spoiler tags is an inconvenience, not using them ruins the fun of those who don't want to see them. Given the risk of ruining the show for so many members, I have to choose the side with the most to lose.

So from now on, please use spoiler tags for the teasers. Or at the very least, type NEXT WEEK'S SHOW or TEASER and then put in a few blank lines so that people who don't want to know about that stuff have a chance to not read it.

Or, as BizRodian suggested, you could start a thread about "next weeks show" and discuss the teaser in there. But the threads discussing the current show need to spoiler the teaser information.

Here's a link to the poll thread. There was some discussion of this issue in there too, and the above is a repost of my decision in that thread.
http://www.dvdtalk.com/forum/showthr...hreadid=188149

Mark Holtz

You may want to add the following sections for clarification for the new people. Here's my addition, feel free to modify.

What is a spoiler? A spoiler is a ironic twist or ending which, if revealed early, spoils the ending of a show. To use one example from the movies, the ending of [i]Star Wars: The Empire Strikes Back[/b], if told to a non-viewer, would surprise the ending.

Why do we need spoiler protection?
* Most networks have both a east coast feed and a west coast feed. Thus, West Coast viewers have a three-hour delay in viewing a program.
* Many shows have multiple airtimes for a single episode. In many markets, for instance, Enterprise airs on Wednesday nights at 8 PM, and then re-airs on the weekends. Cable channels frequently re-air the new episodes several times during the week (which usually runs Mondays-Sundays). Some people catch the show on the repeat run.
* Sports pre-emptions. In some markets, sports programming will pre-empt the show, and re-air it on another night.
* Time shifters. Many people record a show on a DVR/VCR for viewing later on in the week.

Also, I think that having a date and show title in subject line only is preferable, as people remember the date of when a show aired. Episode titles like "Combat Missions: Evolution Six" or "Buffy: The Vampire Slayer: Flooded" is a bit confusing.

WarriorPrincess

So is this the final word? ARE promos for next week considered spoilers? Because I thought that this thread did say that, yet when I tested it out and went into the first thread (Smallville 3/12) I've been into on a show I've seen since the whole Buffy spoiler situation, what did I find? Yep, you guessed it. Discussion of next week's episode that was NOT, I repeat NOT, in spoiler tags.

I should have known better. Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice shame on me. There will apparently always be people who spoil this info for me, so even if the official policy IS to use spoiler tags, I can't trust the people posting to abide by the rules.

das Monkey

Hey, WarriorPrincess, I just gave up. I decided to take the advice I gave GatorDeb when she got so mad about the Olympic spoilers: just avoid the situation. I had to order my priorities, and talking with people here (while I really enjoyed it) came second to not having a show spoiled. I tried to express that concern as best I could, but it seemed to be a losing battle, and I just got tired of being told I was selfish for my request. So, I've just stopped reading threads on some of the more intense shows like Buffy and 24. It's certainly not the optimal solution, but I just don't have the energy to keep fighting a losing battle. And that's not a slam on people here, whom I've noticed are trying harder to respect the spoiler issue, but there's always going to be that one guy who just doesn't care, and it's not worth it to me to fight over it anymore. Sorry your show got tipped for you.

das

WarriorPrincess

Thanks, das - nice to know someone feels the same I do about this and cares on my behalf, too.

And I definitely agree with you - to be extra careful I didn't go into my "first tier" of favorite shows, instead I tried a second string (though interesting, imo) show on my schedule - namely Smallville. Consequently while annoyed, I'm not truly upset like I would be for 24, Buffy, Angel, or Sex and the City. And boy oh boy am I tired of the hassles and bad feelings I have for the board, which is supposed to be a fun place to go to to discuss shows in a respectful manner. But again you're right - there will always be at least one person who doesn't understand or care about the rules who will inevitably post in the thread I'm reading.

Maybe we'll have to start threads that are titled "Buffy 3/12/02, NO spoilers about next week's episode OR any future episodes - i.e. discuss the content from the first 57 minutes of the hour only" or something ridiculous like that to be able to discuss exciting episodes like Buffy from two days ago.

Guess I'll stick with threads like Trading Spaces, where I could care less if there's a spoiler, and ignore the rest.

Static Cling

Warrior, das, et. al. who want episode previews to be in spoiler tags... I totally agree with you, and I will be doing all I can to make sure this happens in the future.

This forum thrives on people reading and discussing TV shows. If there is an issue that is making people not want to read and/or discuss (like what is happening here), it's a problem and needs to be addressed.

Please feel free to contact the mods at any time about this or any other forum issues that arise. We're here for you. Thanks!

Groucho

http://www.dvdtalk.com/forum/showthr...hreadid=198183

Rypro 525

question, we had a problem with this last season with 24, somebody would post a thread a few hours before the show started, then as soon as it ended, another thread would come up and claim that as a discussion thread. now should we have for 24 a no spoiler tag thing just as long as we warn in advance that there are going to be episode spoilers in them

das Monkey

• Quoth Rypro 525 •<HR SIZE=1>question, we had a problem with this last season with 24, somebody would post a thread a few hours before the show started, then as soon as it ended, another thread would come up and claim that as a discussion thread. now should we have for 24 a no spoiler tag thing just as long as we warn in advance that there are going to be episode spoilers in them <HR SIZE=1>

As per the rules, if the thread is dated, then that's your warning. So, for tonight's episode there should be a thread called "24 - 10/29/02 - 00:00-01:00" or something like that. If you read it before watching the episode (you're on the Left Coast, you record it for later viewing, you're in a foreign country), then it's your fault for going into the thread. After the episode airs and you want to speculate about thoughts for next week, you should do so in the same thread. If that speculation is based on next week's promo or legitimate spoilers read from some spoilerific web site, then that discussion needs to be within tags.

When threads pop up early for a show I care about, I don't read them. Frankly, I don't understand why people start threads two and three days in advance of a show anyway. But that's just me. Once I've seen the show, I join in the discussion. Sometimes it takes me days or even weeks to see a certain episode, so I just avoid the thread until I've seen it.

Anyway, that's the way I interpret the policy. Make sense?

das

Mark Holtz

I'll answer that one, since I create the weekly Amazing Race thread...

The Amazing Race, as you know, has several teams racing around the world. The last team to make it to the pit stop is usually eliminated from the race. I usually create the thread & poll for the following episode after 10 PM PT Wednesdays in order to include next week's info (which is spoiler protected). That poll last six days as people speculate who gets eliminated next, and automatically closes when that episode airs. That thread becomes the discussion for the current week's episode.

das Monkey

I think the poll you're doing for The Amazing Race is a somewhat unique case, but even so, I personally have no interest speculating on the next episode; though I understand why others may want to. Just not my thing. However, I was refering more to the recent trend of people "racing" to start a thread first, two and three days before the episode airs. Not really complaining - just doesn't make much sense to me.

das

shaggybrown

Just tired of seeing Das Monkey's name at the top of the list.

Chew

But, if there's anyone's name who should be "at the top of the list" in the TV forum, it's das'.

Now we just need das to post here again.

das Monkey

• Quoth Chew •<HR SIZE=1>Now we just need das to post here again. <HR SIZE=1>

I actually did post mere minutes after he did, but I deleted it later, realizing it would start a chain reaction of pointlessness worthy of Otter, and the contents of the thread itself seemed too important to get caught up in all that.

Besides, why not let shaggybrown enjoy all the riches and wonders associated with being the last to post in this thread. Of course, you had to go and ruin that for him, didn't you?

das

Static Cling

I just wanted to put in some more guidance about spoiler tags.

They're not called "speculation tags" because they're not meant to cover up speculation... something that you think might happen in the future. If you know for sure that something will happen in the future of a show, then you should post it with spoiler tags. However, if you're just brainstorming about what might happen in the show's future, please don't use spoiler tags.

When people get spoiler-tag-happy, it defeats the whole purpose of them... people start reading tagged material because they know that no one's using them to really post spoilers... and then someone does and the show may be ruined a bit for them.

Rypro 525

can you explain something else, once an episode has aired, there should not be tags unless its for priview material correct?

das Monkey

Correct. As long as the thread is dated, so people know what they're getting into when they click it, there's no need to tag the content of that episode. The exception to that would probably be if you see the episode at some crazy time long before anyone else on the forum, then you should tag it, but once the main airings start (usually the East Coast feed), tagging is not only unnecessary, but IMO discouraged. West Coasters, downloaders, and PVR users need to have the common sense to stay out of the threads until they've seen it. As a chronic TiVo user, this almost always applies to me.

As you also mention, preview material for upcoming episodes should be tagged since that content is often spoilerific.

das

Static Cling

Thank you. There were a lot of people who were ticked off at a recent 24-related thread, and I was about to slap him with a "I Don't Use Spoiler Tags" title until I realized that the show was already over for him.

adamblast

While I know this isn't up for debate, I can't help but point out that nearly every single hot TV show this season has had multiple threads ruined by mistakes and then long arguing over this very anal and counter-intuitive forum policy regarding next-week previews being spoilers.

Xander

How is the policy counter-intuitive? I can't believe people don't get it yet. If it's not part of THIS WEEK'S episode, spoilerize it. Previews are for NEXT WEEK'S episode. So spoilerize them. Makes complete sense to me. Previews show potential SPOILERS for next week's episode. To some people. So spoilerize them. I don't understand why this is still being debated.

These comments are not directed at anyone in particular, just general thoughts.

adamblast

My claim that it's counter-intuitive comes from 2 things:

1) The previews can just as easily and validly be seen as *part* of that evening's episode, since it airs as part of that episode's presentation.

2) The fact that newcomers onto this board nearly always make the mistake of doing this, and that it always leads to a big fight, with plenty of smug jerks on either side... which only ends when someone links to the stickies on top of the forum... only to be repeated again with another batch of newbies.

Please understand that, yes, I think the wrong side won this argument several years ago, but I have no strong feelings about this. I simply get tired of the fights.

I would suggest a sticky thread at the top of the forum with a title that says **DO NOT DISCUSS PREVIEWS OR FUTURE EPISODE TRAILERS WITHOUT SPOILER TAGS, THEY ARE NOT CONSIDERED PART OF THE PROGRAM**. Nothing less will work.