Buffy 2/12/02
 

*sigh*

das

Why was there a throw-away episode so late in the season?

While I have only re-started watching recently, I am already tired of the same formula in every episode.

"Oh no, little Dawn feels all neglected. She is so pitiful, she needs love!" :yack:

After tonight, I hope Anya or somebody takes Dawn and throws her into some abyss from which she can never return.

Now some questions about Dawn that I missed last season.

-Where did she come from? She never appeared in the early episodes that are on the season one DVD.

-Is Anya trying to be her mother figure? She seemed the most perturbed by Dawn's actions.

-Why must she whine so much? Poor Dawn is now a shoplifter! Woe is Dawn!

Bright side: I am sure we will get some mileage out the Freyck and Spike relationship in future episodes.

Also, anyone else think the sword demon looked like some reject orc from Lord of the Rings?

Long story short...Dawn showed up in the begining of season 5 she was...

Everyone tries to be her Mother figure. Anya was pissed because Dawn was stealing from the Magic Box. Anya runs the Magic Box and is very fond of money.

To annoy us to no ends.

What pisses me off is that it was a wasted opportunity. Midway through the show I was thinking "Cool concept. Trapped in the house. Now Spike & Buffy, and Willow & Tara will have to deal." But at the end of the show, almost nothing had changed at all.

:lol:

das

Well, here's hoping that was the end of Dawn's story arc for the season. As if the hellmouth wasn't enough, she has become the writers' excuse in every other episode it seems. And yet more stomping away and screaming - enough already!

I was predicting the Spike/Buffy thing would come out also, but not yet I guess. And when they went to commercial at the end there I thought Anya would be the one to get her powers back - as she was urging Willow to do.

So, yet another 'slow' episode and right after I thought they were making so much progress in the one before.

Some good news at least - 2 hours of Buffy next week. Looks like overtime for all the Tivos and VCRs.

Buffy 2/12/02

What a bizarre little episode. Buffy's birthday does spawn some really strange stuff.

It appears that the writers are addressing Dawn's issues with loneliness and abandonment. Can't really say how Buffy will resolve them with Dawn.

It's like last week never happen w/r/t Spike-Buffy (except for the bruises on Spike's face) but it seems strange that Buffy is still got the hots for Spike, and doesn't find him really that repulsive. This is a bit of a reversal from last week's episode. I guess she hasn't acknowledged what Spike really is, and is still treating him like gigolo. Oh well.

The Helfrek/Sessily-Spike thing was quite clever. Did anyone else realize that Helfrek was Sessily, the woman that William the Bloody (Spike) was so in love with, but who rejected him for being beneath her, which led to him being susceptible to Darla's invitation to become a vampire?

I had no doubts that Willow would not give into Anya's demands that Willow whip up some magic to get them out of the mess. It was good to see Tara stand up for Willow, this might lead to a reconciliation between them.

Anyhow, while it was good to have the old gang interacting like it was a season 2 episode, it felt tired at the same time.

They lost me at "Spellcasters Anonymous"

This episode just seemed to highlight for me just how little I care about pretty much anyone, any more.

Where to start...

The Willow-magic plot is dead to me, now. Unsalvagable. They're all trapped in a house with a horrific demon, quite likely about to all be killed, and we're supposed to be *proud* Willow refused to consider magic? I mean, the alcoholism parallel they're going for can only be warped so far. The emergency stash, the fact that a town that couldn't muster a magic-oriented Wiccan group has a magical AA, and Willow's complete and utter uselessness this episode has killed any hope I had of the addiction being a bright red fish.

Dawn--I. Don't. Like. Her. I was getting along okay, until the whole "Pity her! Her sister, who was ripped out of heaven after committing the ultimate sacrifice, would rather battle evil demons than eat dinner! And her sisters 20-something friends don't want to hang out with her!" Plus, she has friends. Just last week, she was all getting into Janice's family dynamic. So pardon me while I fail to get into the whole Dawn pity party.

Tara. Gee, I would have liked her. If I didn't resent the blatant manipulation on the part of the writers so much. She's a totally different character, who's morphed into Buffy's Bestest Buddy Ever! She had more spine in this episode than in the first season she was on the show. I get it; I'm supposed to like her. Enough with the personality rewrite already.

Anya--I actually liked her a lot this episode. Even when I was supposed to be scoffing and chuffing at her wrongness. I was with her during her Willow tirade, cheered as she tried to take out the demon for stabbing her friend, and just generally liked her. Searching Dawn's room was way overkill, but understandable.

My biggest problem, plot-wise, was Buffy's random decision that guidance councelor == eeeeevil. She had a guidance dude who was good (granted, he was murdered within the episode); but Dawn's must be eeeeeeeeeeevil. Wouldn't it have been a more logical conclusion that the Nerd Troika was the root cause of their problems?

Stuff I liked... Um. NewTara is an entertaining girl, if I pretend she's someone Buffy met at work. The Spike/Halfrek moment was nice. Uh.

Has anyone seen the classic Luis Buñuel movie "The Exterminating Angel"? It's about an elegant dinner party in which the guests can't leave for several days. Was this Buffy episode a tribute, spoof or coincidence?

The whole "Dawny as a klepto screaming for attention" does get a bit tired, but I guess that's the only way the writers know how to write 15 year olds these days.

Why doesn't Dawn have a group of friends?

She must be the only teenage girl in America that WANTS to hang out with her family. Every other teenage girl would be out all the time, hanging out with a group of friends, going to the mall, etc.

When she kept whining about people not spending time with her, I just wanted to yell "Get a life!"

The first half of the episode was written by a third grader from Phoenix, yes?

No, that’s not fair to third graders.

Up till now I’ve been a closet supporter of Dawn. She’s just a kid, I kept telling myself, and kids have problems and sometimes whine. It’s just their way. They often have a narrow viewpoint of the world around them and almost constantly try to find out where they fit in the grand scheme of things.

But after this episode I have only two thoughts about her:

Dawn is The Big Bad.

KILL DAWN!! KILL HER NOW!!!

This is the first time I’ve found a character that makes Wesley Crusher look good.



OK. That’s three things.





MrN, I’m also thinking Anya could take the amulet from the [not]dead Halfrek, maybe regain her powers, and then we could see how she REALLY feels about <s>Alex</s> Xander. But that would involve active participation in the writing process.


Highlight of the show: KFC BBQ wings are back… :whofart:


Still hate Buffy’s hair.

I guess I'm the only one that thinks Dawn is hot. Well if she were legal I would say that. Still annoying as all hell though.

<B>Wizdar</B>, glad to finally have you on board the "Dawn is SUCKEKEKEKE" Train.

Speaking of suck ...

das

So no one else is digging the Helfrek=Sessily revelation? I thought it was kinda cool thing to throw into the mix (especially when Spike makes the connection).

The only thing I'm digging is a grave for my favorite show.

das

P.S. Yeah, that part was kind of cool.

Since this has become the Buffy gripe-fest thread. I'm hating her haircut more and more.

There are SO many neat things they COULD do that they've totally ignored. They ain't goin' nowhere with that.

[Wizdar hands das a shovel. "It's under a BIG dubbaya..." ;)]

And what was with that neurotic co-worker of Buffy's at the party? Sheesh!

While I have not seen the David Fincher film Panic Room, it has a similar plot to this in that most of the film takes place in one house. If they had let Fincher direct this episode it would have had more edge. Heck, Fincher needs to direct an episode to give it unique style, anything to stray from this lame lull.

Case in point: The show is losing steam and might wind up like X-Files if it doesn't watch out. For February the show needs to be hitting them out of the park each week, it's merely bunting. Next week will be two repeats I believe, what kind of crap is that?

That's not fair to people from Phoenix. ;)

I picked that because I couldn't spell Des Moines.

And I've never been to Des Moines. ;)

That a crappy, boring episode. :(

The highlight for me was when Spike took Buffy's hand in the hall to grope himself and Tara caught them.

Spike: She was helping me with a cramp.
Tara: You had a cramp in your pants?

:lol:

And then later when they were playing cards and Tara asked Spike how his cramp was....and then she said that maybe he should ice it. :lol:

http://www.ameritech.net/users/dvdtalk/rome.gif

In spite of the fact that those were good jokes, I think it's impolite to find ANYTHING good about this episode.

JMO.





I find the trend towards sex sex sex in these shows is going WAY too overboard. Dudes (writer dudes), get laid once in a while!

Hell, they even had Kevin get nekkid in Andromeda last week! -eek-

Yeah, show some class, people.

das

The episode was good, people. Just because the season in general has been poor doesn't mean every single episode is going to suck. Try opening your eyes. BTW, if we start a petition..... what are the chances of Dawn getting killed off?

"Hell, they even had Kevin get nekkid in Andromeda last week! "


Kevin Sorbo was naked??? AND I MISSED IT????

Oh yeah, this is a Buffy thread....so I should talk about Buffy.
I was REALLY hoping that Anya was gonna grab the amulet and become a vengence demon again!! That would have made the wedding a no go. In my opinion I don't think they are gonna go through with the Anya/Xander wedding, and I was hoping this was how they were gonna avoid it.

If I hear Dawn's b*tchy "primal scream" one more time... ugh.

Yeah, pretty much agree, took a concept that lead nowhere for all the characters- except Dawns feelings, which are pretty ridiculus in the first place and at the very least dont warrant nearly getting everyone killed.

I guess the one gripe I dont think anyones mentioned was the whole, "You made a wish to someone you dont know!?!?!!!" What the Hell? You cant say "I wish" in the Buffyverse without worrying that some demon is in eashot and will curse you for a casual remark? Thats lame, they worked around it and made the Vengeance demon wish thing more plausible in the Cordy episode introducing Anya. The way the writers used it in this episode takes a crap on the shows mythology.

Funny, from reading here and hearing from my friends (who frequent the big Buffy boards) fans are in agreement that the show is going downhill fast, yet its ratings are still steady. Everybody is upset, but we still love it enough to give it a chance, because the moment those ratings take a big dip- we know it'll get yanked.

All through this episode, I kept saying to Buffy:

"Why, oh, why did you sacrifice your life to save this whiny, selfish idiot?"

A better ending to season 5 would have been for DAWN to realize that she wasn't real anyway and that Buffy's life was more important in the scheme of things. DAWN should have jumped. It would have redeemed the character, and ended that whole Season 5 "sister" thing.

Every time Dawn whines about Buffy someone ought to remind her that Buffy gave her life to save her, and is now miserable, all because of her.

What an ungrateful little turd.

After some of the awful episodes from a few weeks ago, this story was an improvement. This was a development story, and we had some changes.

At least Willow is recovering. Has anyone noticed that Buffy is going down the dark path. Buffy is forced to grow up, and basically had to give up college in order to work a full-time job to make ends meet, plus be the slayer without the guidence of Giles.

I think, though, that the absence of Giles is very noticable.

KILL DAWN! KILL DAWN! KILL DAWN! FIRE STEPH! (oops! Wrestling thread flashback ;) Those who follow WWF would realize that while Steph was/is a great though annoyinh heel, her writing put the WWF at an all time ratings low.) They need to find a way to work Dawn out of the big picture, slowly and painfully!

IMO, they should have some big story arc come to a close with Dawn being caught in a huge explosion, and then on a certain date at the official website, fans vote on whether or not she will return. It would kind of be like the Death in the Family gimmick DC used when they killed of Robin...not that I am insinuating the same fate would await Dawn if the viewers decide! :D

NOW you guys agree with me about the new hair. Took you long enough. ;)

I didn't hate this episode nearly as much as most of you, but I didn't like it much either. Some of the jokes were funny - but they were pretty much all mentioned already. And I did catch the Halfrek/Cicely/Spike situation and found it intriguing - hope they expand on it in the future.

I too hate to see the copout with Willow and her problem, which is NOT magic by any means but rather the way that she doesn't intuitively know that something is good to do or bad to do (like Tara does) - Willow's first thought is "can I do it? is it possible?" not "this is wrong" or "this is right" (case in point, the ep where dawn wants to bring her mom back from the dead). Willow likes to control things, including people, and magic helped with that. It's not the tool (magic) that's the problem - it's the way Willow thinks. Letting people possibly die because you can't face up to your own issues and use the powerful magic you have in a GOOD way is just selfish and ridiculous.

I agree that Dawn has gone WAY WAY WAY past the normal teen angst and normal teenage girl melodrama (ever been one or been around one? some of that behavior is sadly normal :)) that I expected into the realm of absolute self-centered spoiled brat who needs some SERIOUS boundaries. She needs serious curtailing of all of her activities, and a very tough love parent figure. JMHO. But it's sad from an audience perspective to have to see all of this, because Buffy the Vampire Slayer shouldn't be about "how to deal with an out of control teenage girl" - and I certainly have no desire to watch Buffy parent Dawn. No win situation. Ugh.

Tara has had a backbone many times before - it just takes certain triggers, and threatening Willow is the biggest trigger of them all. Her standing up for Willow was true to character and nice to see - hope it will mean a reconciliation. I think it's unfair to compare the first few Tara episodes when she was firmly in her protective stuttering shell to this Tara - we saw a LOT of growth over the episodes, slowly. This was totally in character. Also, Tara has truly been Buffy's friend since that ep where Buffy stood up for her against her family. It's just that Buffy never sought her out before and Willow used to be a given wherever Tara was...so it just wasn't obvious that Buffy and Tara were friends. Tara wouldn't have risked her life so many times if she didn't truly care about the whole gang, so when Buffy came to her for help, she was there. Tara is a very kind and giving person, and she would put personal feelings aside to be there for Buffy, who is so obviously in pain. Plus Tara probably feels pretty guilty for helping bring Buffy back from heaven, so she wants to help even more.

I think there's more to the girl from Buffy's work than meets the eye...notice the lack of freak out when all of the mayhem ensued? Maybe she's Jonathan in disguise? Just a theory.

I couldn't be more sick of the Xander/Anya wedding - and normally I love weddings. I just don't like either of them very much. Xander has grown up a lot, but he still annoys me sometimes - he jumps to (usually the wrong) conclusion way too often.

OK, end of rant. :)

Liked this ep a lot. Except for Dawn's parts. Seemed pretty much a repeat of "Blood Ties". Especially the "screaming in my room" part. Ugh. Like Buffy's hair. Don't think Halfrek is Cecily. You guys complain too much. :P

Still love the show. Hasn't been an ep I didn't like all season.

X

After viewing the first season on DVD and other episodes from seasons three and four, I really see how far the show's quality has gone in a negative direction.

IMO, Buffy used to be a gorgeous young woman with a strong group of followers and was larger than life. Now look at her life. She's given her life for a whiny brat of a sister, lost her beautiful hair, has begun to look too skinny (not Callista Flockhart yet, but on the way),been resurrected from what was as far as we know a good afterlife, then forced to quit college and work at a burger joint to make ends meet. I mean come on! She was an awesome warrior princess like being earlier, let her keep some of her dignity. It wouldn't surprise me if they decide to Vamp her again and make her wind up commiting suicide after she loses all of her friends. Then they might choose to clone her!

While kind of an off subject, I see lots of paralells between Buffy and Ellen Ripley, the heroine of the Alien saga. Her life is one that really eliminated her dignity.

Right, but mostly this season (Tough Love, last season, being the first time I can recall her having one); it kinda started with with Bargaining, where she whacked the demon with a shovel to save Willow. Made sense, but her post-whack reaction was far more confident than any Tara we've seen before.

I think my problem is that S4-S5 Tara's evolution was very gradual; she was overcoming her biggest personal problem (insecurity). It apparently vaporized over the summer, leaving her with only her unhealthy Willow-dependence. In the musical, Tara's crediting Willow with all that's good in herself. By the end of two episodes later, Tara's dumped Willow /and/ discovered her own worth (The whole mind-wipe thing gave ample reason for the dumping, but where did her sudden self-pride stem from?)

So, while I agree that Tara probably would stand up for Willow, it seemed totally out of character for her to not be a little nervous/embarassed afterwards.

And, yes, I do think Tara-as-Buffy's-confidante makes sense. It just seems like they're trying to revamp her character to move her into the best friend position, as opposed to keeper of Buffy's dirty little secret.

As for reconciliation--I hope not. I have a hard time dealing with the idea that what Willow intentionally did, and tried to do, to Tara is entirely forgivable. That's not just undermining the trust in a relationship; that's blowing it up, sticking the bits in an envelope, and mailing them to the moon.

I would agree under normal circumstances, but I can see where a teenage girl first finds out she is not really a teenage girl, and then has her mother figure die might want to cling to what is left of her family dynamic.

p

I REALLY wanted Anya, during her freakout, to slap Dawn and tell her everything that is being said here. Buffy died for you, you are ungrateful, you have friends, too, you know...

Unfortunately, none of that. In fact, it didn't even need to be Anya. It could be anyone. I would especially like Spike to say it, though.

But, yeah, would have been much stronger of an episode without the bad guy of the week.

Except she already played that card ... twice. Time to move on. The hardest thing in this world is to live in it. Now quit'cher bitchin' and move on.

das

Like I said last week, I wish Xander would step in and tell her to grow the hell up. She looks up to him. Spike might work too.

das