Thanks for the Angel episode guide link. There's no telling when I'll get to see Season 1 and 2 of Angel...

No problem. I was just watching it today and thinking to myself "Boy, that wouldn't make a whole lot of sense without seeing the corresponding episode of Angel. They work up the entire show talking about how powerful that ring is, and Buffy just yanks it off his hand?"

Holy crap. I used to watch Deep Space 9 all the time, but I haven't seen an episode in years. I finally rewatched an old episode, and I recognized Quark's (the Romulan) voice, but I couldn't place it. Then I realized it was the same guy who played Prinicipal Snyder. Freaky.

Don't you mean "Ferengi"? :)

I thought the Halloween episode from season 4 was pretty good (I'd seen it on the Halloween night round of episodes). The main thing was the last thing that the mini-demon said to Buffy: "All of your friends will abandon you" (or something to that effect), and then Buffy squashes him.

The "Beer Bad" episode was pretty funny, a little uneven, but plenty of small laughs sprinkled in the episode. I hope Buffy is finally over Parker. It was funny to see Willow bust Parker on his charming ways. Xander, as a bartender, was predictably pathetic (plus the Cocktail reference was funny).

Yeah. D'oh.

I've seen comments like this over and over but still don't see it. Season 4: The Initiative/Adam. We had hints early in the season that something was going on but didn't really get a look at the Initiative until, what, episode 7? And didn't know there was actually something Big Bad-worthy going on there until something like 14?

My guess is a true villain has been presented but not yet identified as such.

Oh, for that I was referring to the current season on UPN:) This seems very different from how it has been handled before. The true villain was usually always looming in the capacity we recognized, especially with regards to the Master and the Mayor.

In "Pangs" I thought the Native American baddies were poor, but the sideplot of Buffy wanting to have a Thanksgiving dinner for her friends pretty funny. Like when she's giving food preparation instructions while dealing with the baddies.

Plus, Spike as comic relief is a hoot. Giles and Willow's disagreement on the meaning of Thanksgiving (and eradicating native Americans) takes on a strange slant with Giles being British.

In "Something Blue", I have to wonder if any of the Spike/Buffy getting married dealio was long-range foreshadowing to the present storyline on UPN. I wonder how much the actress who played Amy (Elizabeth Anne ...something) got paid for 2 seconds of nekkid screen time :) Riley is such a stiff. Don't really like him much in the charisma department. When the spell was rescinded and Buffy and Spike realize they were kissing each other, their reactions were comical as hell.

Season 4 just has such a strange vibe about it, but I don't find that I think the episodes are all that "bad", but rather just on a different venue with a larger stage. The high school seasons had a smaller feel to them.

Oh, does Giles even have a job in Season 4? It's quite funny how he manages to still be tight contact with all of the scoobs and Buffy. Also, the way they write Xander into season 4 episode is truly creative writing 101. :)

Tonight, two of season fours better episodes...

"Doomed"- Which will be a tad confusing without Hush as a lead in, showinig Buffy and Riley discovering each others seceret lives. Plus "Doomed" is worth it just for Spikes revelation about his chips limits.

and "A New Man"- definitley one of the comedic highlights and my favorite Giles episode.

Guess they scrapped the plans of showing 'Amends' in place of 'Hush'. Good idea. It was weird to hear Buffy talk about seeing Angel in LA without having 'I Will Remember You' in there.

das

Could someone PLEASE remind me how Cordelia was written out? I can't seem to remember and I never watched Angel, so I don't know how she ended up there. She was around for Graduation, but how did she or the show explain her leaving? There was the whole Angel needing to leave Buffy storyline and then all I can remember was that Cordelia was gone.

Anyone?


"I haven't been evil in a LONG time." Angel

She was just gone after "Graduation Day part 2". It was elaborated on in the first episode of Angel.

Cordelia went to LA after her family lost their money, so she was broke. She went there planning to be an actress, but eventually started working for Angel.

Why is everyone so down on season 4? It seems the general consensus is it wasn't a good season but I thought there were some great episode.

For those that don't like it, why?

I think its more that people don't think it compares favorably with the other seasons.

Season 4 saw a change in environment and the cast all changed roles. Others didn't like Riley or the 'Big Bad.'

I don't think season 4 is lousy or anything, but it could have been better.

Seasons 2 and 3 are some of the best seasons of any television show. Season 4 could never compare to that, nor 5 or 6 for that matter. I enjoy Season 4 quite a bit, but I think it's a fair assesssment that it's not as good. For me, a lot of it revolves around the newness of everything to the characters. When they're risking everything to help save the world in the beginning, they really don't know what they're up against and whether they'll be able to survive. The drama built around that is really strong, and they tell some great stories. By Season 4, it's all old hat to the characters. The struggles of fitting in during high school are no longer appropriate. It's just not as strong. But I'm not down on it. Seasons 3 and 4 of Babylon 5 are some of the greatest television ever produced, and the other seasons don't really compare, but that doesn't mean I don't love to watch them.

das

Season 4 is one of my favorites! I didn't understand why other people disparage it so much either, but here's what I think - the show changed radically after season 3. After all, the main setting for the first 3 seasons is now a burnt, hollow shell, and the characters have to move on. There is a LOT of self-doubt among the characters now, not just because of the new setting - Willow losing Oz, Xander feeling like an outsider, Giles feeling useless, etc. Because of that, the tight, cohesive group of the first three seasons is starting to break apart (The Yoko Factorreally showed this). Thus this season has a different feel from the rest, which some might not like.

But I fail to see how one could label the whole season as deficient. The Initiative Arc is original, and almost developed to an optimal potential. I like it, despite the fact that I had the idea for a secret government project manned by surreptitious college students two years before :). I didn't like Riley, but something like that should hardly dampen the whole season. And have people forgotten the great episodes in this season? Namely:

• Fear, Itself (Only the 2nd season has a better halloween episode)
• Something Blue (Hilarious! And now 100% more foreshadowy!)
• Hush (Continuing the trend that the best episodes of Buffy are 4-letter words)
• This Year's Girl/Who Are You (The Faith two-parter. I have never disliked an episode she's in)
• Superstar (Alternate-universe episodes are always good)
• Restless (Luis Bunuel would be proud of Joss)

Of course, Season Four has the misfortune of having the two worst episodes of Buffy ever: Beer Bad and Where the Wild Things Are :yack:. But aside from those two, the 4th season was excellent, and proved that Buffy was still one of the best shows on television.

I think my feelings could be summed up in this statement: during Seasons 2 and 3, Buffy was the best show on television; during Seasons 4 and 5, it was one of the best shows on television.

das

I also agree that season 2 and 3 was some of the best, most creative TV programming.

I see the points on season 4 but I definitely enjoy it because it seems to be more of a personal struggle for each character than it was a group struggle, like in the previous seasons.

Thanks for the responses guys!

Thank you das, you bring up a good point... You see, why I think I'm not as down on season 4 as some Buffy fans, is precisely because I was glad they were out of high school, getting over all the teenage roller coaster idiocy, and happy they had gotten over character defining and got into a little character growth. While seasons 2 & 3 had some of the most emotional Buffy's, I just think the overall development and pacing of season 4 was better, and the objectives for everyones behavior grew in every episode, instead of in pieces. I think it finally found its pace, with everyone comforatable in their skin, glidning along in a more defined path.

Oh yeah, and this Monday and Tuesday- HOLY HECK- The "I" in Team and Goodbye, Iowa on Monday, and This Years Girl and Who Are You? on Tuesday, back to back two of the better Buffy two-parters in a row. Nothing like that happened in season 2.

As with most things, different strokes ... I enjoy the development of the characters when things are still raw more than what these characters do once they're comfortable in their skin. Also, I really like the parallels between high school and the hell mouth. College is about growth, trying new things, learning who you are as a person. High school is hell ... literally. I liked that. And from a personal perspective, the Angel storyline really worked for me, and there were points during Seasons 2 and 3 where I felt like my heart was being ripped from my chest. I never had as much emotional attachment to the following seasons, probably because a lot of it was retreading old territory: Buffy doesn't fit in, Buffy has turbulent relationship with fellow demon hunter, Xander feels left out, Giles feels useless, etc. We already did that.

das

I love the episode the I Team. That totally rocks. Also, I like the fact that the military just doen't get it when it comes to demons. They don't realize they can have a larger purpose other than just killing things. Buffy sees more than they do.

I'm a liker of fourth season for the most part.

I'd venture that Buffy has a monster I.Q. :) It's been hinted at that Buffy is pretty smart (did well on her SATs, and even crushed Willow on her Psyche paper), but just lacks focus and direction since she's got that slayage thing going on. If she were to go back to civilian life, I'm sure she'd land on her feet if she applied herself.

Looks like the girl that played Buffy's demon room-mate is in the new Yahoo commercial - the one with the superhero and the purse-snatcher.

Kathy's in a commercial? She spooked me.