The Marathon looks okay. I understand there have to be some season ones in there, and that even though they just showed Graduation, it is popular so it makes it. But I dont get "Wish/Doppelgangland" at all... Much rather have "Lovers Walk", or "The I in Team". Hell, while we're at it, why not "Pangs" the Thanksgiving episode? That would make sense.

Season 3: Graduation Day Part 2:

Pretty good finale and send off of high school and the mayor. I wasn't too impressed with the CGI ascension Mayor Monster, but with their budget, and blowing up the school, I guess that was what got short-changed.

That awkward kissing between Wesley and Cordy was a little bizarre, glad they found out they had no chemistry at all between them.

I did notice Harmony about to get biten by the vampire (I believe she shows up as a villain later) on the steps at the high school when they were falling back.

Didn't realize that Faith would be put in a coma from her landing in the truck and losing all that blood, but I guess it's a way to keep her alive.

Season 4: The Freshmen:

This episode did bring back those early days of acclimation at college. When Buffy's roommate put up that Celine Dionne poster, I about cackled.

Tell me that Buffy doesn't get involved with this Riley dude. Love Lindsay Crouse as Maggie the Psyche professor.

This must have been the summer that Alyson Hannigan grew another 2 inches in height because I noticed her almost towering over Buffy.

It was funny how acclimated Oz was to college and the campus due to playing in the band at college parties.

Loved Ripper Giles getting busted by Buffy at his apartment. :)

Good thing Xander came back and recharged Buffy's internal self-doubt batteries.

Katherine Towne played a pretty cool vamp, Sunday, too bad she was used to give Buffy back her self-confidence. Hopefully Buffy will be more herself after dealing with Sunday and her crew, it was kinda painful to watch her be so non-assertive at the start of the episode.

Patman - you're going to be bumming in season 4.

AAAARRRRRGGGGHHHHHH@@@@!!!!

Dude--you just perfectly summed up my feelings towards Season 4 of Buffy. (No, I lie. My feelings towards about 15 of the 22 episodes match that)

Well, I started watching in season 4, and I liked it well enough to make me want to see the whole series. I've loved finally getting to see episodes 1-3, so we'll see how well season 4 holds up in comparison to them.

The first time I saw episode 1 of season 4, I was curious why Buffy got so upset when the vamp smashed that little umbrella. Now I know. It'll be neat to finally have all the little references and questions answered.

Okay, am I the only person who LOVED the Angel drinking Buffy scene?

I found it to be the most erotic thing I've ever seen on TV. The music swelling, all that pent-up passion between them, her making the ultimate sacrifice to save him. Him feeding on a human for the first time since having a soul......

And the way you could tell she was totally into it. I loved it when she lifted her legs and wrapped them around him.

To me this was Buffy & Angel consummating their love for each other, albeit in a vampire way :)

{Jadzia}: That was a hot one! (Of course, nothing compared to last night's episode;)

I LOVED the mayor busting out into the bad arc and the entire graduating class getting in on his termination. I think that some of time, the effects aren't that great when they go for the monsters' looks but I tend to give them a lot of leeway in that department. Maybe it was just the WB budget.

I love everything about 'Graduation Day, Part II.' I've always had a soft spot for anything that involves people setting aside their typically pety differences to fight a greater foe. That covers silly action movies where the world stands together against an enemy. Or shows like 'Babylon 5' where the Army of Light draws a line against the Darkness. And it plays in full with 'Graduation Day'. The whole 3rd season has such incredible build up with all the pieces being moved into position and everyone preparing for the big showdown. And they climax it so well in that final episode. Buffy drops Faith in Part I and then lets Angel go down on her early in Part II, and then you get that calm before the storm ... those peaceful moments with Faith ... and then the final buildup ... Xander and Willow pulling students aside to talk with them. It builds so well that it's such a great moment when the students pull back their robes revealing weapons galore and preparing to fight back. I dunno ... I just love that kind of stuff. And Angel standing in the distance just long enough for Buffy to accept his leaving. Great great stuff. And closing with Oz putting everything into perspective ... "we survived". I'll always love 'Buffy', but I don't think it can ever recapture what they had in seasons 2 and 3. Everything was so new, and there was so much growth for these characters, learning so much from each other's strengths and weaknesses. Simply great television. I am completely rambling now ... I think there may have been a point when I started typing, but it is long gone ...

das

"Fire bad ... tree pretty."

Season 4 bashing has always bothered me. I became a regular viewer during season 4, and having seen all the episodes now, the continuity in character behavior was way better in season 4 than it was any other season. The arc of everyone’s behavior in season 4 was expertly done, whereas there were gaps-odd misfires in previous seasons. Sure, the villain sorta’ sucks, but big deal. Overall, it has great stories, and the best development, so I’ll take that over a menacing bad guy any day.

The characterization on this show is simply the best on TV. I haven't been this obsessive about watching a show truthfully, since Twin Peaks. Whedon obviously cares about all of the parts he writes for and I think he must screen any other episodes written by someone else. I thought the Musical was just going to be some random portrayals and storyline but everything fits in perfectly and I was amazed. And so many thought it was going to 'jump the shark'. Nope.

I know he writes for Angel and has been taking a more active role this year in it...but I'm afraid to watch thinking it won't compare. Is it worth my Monday evening?

I'm rambling too but I can't wait for the season dvds to come out in the states for a Buffy marathon viewing.

Definately. I know quite a few people who thought Angel last year was better than Buffy. This year has been a little uneven, but its still better than most other shows.

I'll give it a shot and try to catch up before I post any lame questions on the Angel board:) I never really cared for Angel on Buffy and it didn't quite register if it was his acting or they didn't want to give him too much humorous dialogue being the tortured soul he is at all. I hear that there are a lot of Buffy crossover references that are funny so that would make it worth it alone for me.

Angel has a higher "camp" factor, but lately Buffy has a higher "pathos" factor until the latest Angel episode this week.

I really enjoy Angel, especially the self-deprecating conversations that go on in the quiet times on the show.

Angel is definitely worth checking out.

Patman: I alone appreciate that you are in touch with your sensitive side!

It portrayed a great understanding between them. Everyone I know that doesn't watch Buffy (I try to convert when I can;) complains the slayer is a hypocrite for falling for vampires. But I'm like "YOU have to SEE it first". Especially since Angel was her first, their moments are intense, as well as, touching.

I've always felt season 4 as standalone was decent TV, but a terrible, terrible followup to previous seasons of Buffy. It's just... not the same show. Previous seasons, I'd cared about all the characters--S4 decided to focus on Buffy and Willow and Riley. The villan was both unmenacing and lacking in emotional impact. Much of the story felt forced, and the group dynamic (the whole 'us vs the world' thing) was somewhat lacking.

Plus, I've never forgiven it for subjecting me to Where The Wild Things Are--Gyah.

It just took a turn in being 'them vs. the government' type of story. Society alone developing sterile creatures for the common good but going awry. It still works, just a different approach, I lay no blame:)

I'm a huge BTVS lover so I never really find much fault. What I don't like sometimes is when they start messing with the theories they lay out. For instance, vampires are supposed to be 'invited' in but apparently this only must apply to domestic housing. I don't find much of those however.

I always knew that the writers of Buffy have their stories planned out well in advance, and they like to throw in little tidbits that foreshadow future events, but the last episode was just creepy.

In "The Freshman", while talking to Willow in the bookstore, she says something to this effect: "Time to send the bill to Mom. I hope she has one of those FUNNY aneurysms."

Was this just an uncanny coincidence, or did Joss already plan for a story arc two years in advance? And does anyone have any other examples of these throwaway "foreshadows"?

I think sometimes its foreshadowing, but sometimes they work backwards, or just try to incorporate previous storylines.

Dopplegangland does have a great (foreshadow) line about Willow's orientation though.

I was watching "The Harvest" on FX today (taped it yesterday). Did anyone notice, in the scene where Angel talks to Buffy in the crypt, that Angel is standing in the sunlight? I know that Joss knew Angel was a vamp at that point, and all the scripts for season 1 must have been written by the time they filmed the second episode. Oh well, whatever.

Also, I don't get FX at college, so I can only watch when I come home, but my friends who've seen old episodes more than once tell me that there's TONS of foreshadowing. I'm sure some of it's coincidence (At the end of The Harvest, Buffy says, "I could still get kicked out of school," to which Willow replies, "Maybe you could blow something up, they're usually pretty strict about that.", although I can't believe they had season 3 planned through at that point, it's still funny.) But think of the season 4 finale:Season 6 I seem to remember seeing somewhere that Joss already knows how the series is going to end. Go figure.

For those who had questions on foreshadowing and were curious as to whether or not Joss had things planned seasons in advance; according to the info during Something Blue, Joss started to line things up for Dawn in Season 3. Good possibility that some of the stuff we saw earlier on was doing just that.

Okay, I just noticed one of the inconsistencies mentioned in the timeline. In Becoming Part 2, Angel supposedly had his soul restored in 1898. How could he still be evil and with Darla, Drusilla and Spike in the Boxer Revolution in 1900?

Ok..I can answer that question...He did have his soul...He was just acting...if you see the Angel version after Spikes version...you see why:)...Ok...back to lurking:)

I think the 'blow something up' at the end of The Harvest is referring to the fact that she blew up the gym from her last school.

IIRC, Angel got his soul restored in the 1900's or 1910's, he'd been a bum for over 80 years until Whistler found him in the alley and led Angel to his first glimpse of Buffy at her previous high school circa 1996.