Could someone PLEASE remind me how Cordelia was written out? I can't seem to remember and I never watched Angel, so I don't know how she ended up there. She was around for Graduation, but how did she or the show explain her leaving? There was the whole Angel needing to leave Buffy storyline and then all I can remember was that Cordelia was gone.

Anyone?


"I haven't been evil in a LONG time." Angel

She was just gone after "Graduation Day part 2". It was elaborated on in the first episode of Angel.

Cordelia went to LA after her family lost their money, so she was broke. She went there planning to be an actress, but eventually started working for Angel.

Why is everyone so down on season 4? It seems the general consensus is it wasn't a good season but I thought there were some great episode.

For those that don't like it, why?

I think its more that people don't think it compares favorably with the other seasons.

Season 4 saw a change in environment and the cast all changed roles. Others didn't like Riley or the 'Big Bad.'

I don't think season 4 is lousy or anything, but it could have been better.

Seasons 2 and 3 are some of the best seasons of any television show. Season 4 could never compare to that, nor 5 or 6 for that matter. I enjoy Season 4 quite a bit, but I think it's a fair assesssment that it's not as good. For me, a lot of it revolves around the newness of everything to the characters. When they're risking everything to help save the world in the beginning, they really don't know what they're up against and whether they'll be able to survive. The drama built around that is really strong, and they tell some great stories. By Season 4, it's all old hat to the characters. The struggles of fitting in during high school are no longer appropriate. It's just not as strong. But I'm not down on it. Seasons 3 and 4 of Babylon 5 are some of the greatest television ever produced, and the other seasons don't really compare, but that doesn't mean I don't love to watch them.

das

Season 4 is one of my favorites! I didn't understand why other people disparage it so much either, but here's what I think - the show changed radically after season 3. After all, the main setting for the first 3 seasons is now a burnt, hollow shell, and the characters have to move on. There is a LOT of self-doubt among the characters now, not just because of the new setting - Willow losing Oz, Xander feeling like an outsider, Giles feeling useless, etc. Because of that, the tight, cohesive group of the first three seasons is starting to break apart (The Yoko Factorreally showed this). Thus this season has a different feel from the rest, which some might not like.

But I fail to see how one could label the whole season as deficient. The Initiative Arc is original, and almost developed to an optimal potential. I like it, despite the fact that I had the idea for a secret government project manned by surreptitious college students two years before :). I didn't like Riley, but something like that should hardly dampen the whole season. And have people forgotten the great episodes in this season? Namely:

• Fear, Itself (Only the 2nd season has a better halloween episode)
• Something Blue (Hilarious! And now 100% more foreshadowy!)
• Hush (Continuing the trend that the best episodes of Buffy are 4-letter words)
• This Year's Girl/Who Are You (The Faith two-parter. I have never disliked an episode she's in)
• Superstar (Alternate-universe episodes are always good)
• Restless (Luis Bunuel would be proud of Joss)

Of course, Season Four has the misfortune of having the two worst episodes of Buffy ever: Beer Bad and Where the Wild Things Are :yack:. But aside from those two, the 4th season was excellent, and proved that Buffy was still one of the best shows on television.

I think my feelings could be summed up in this statement: during Seasons 2 and 3, Buffy was the best show on television; during Seasons 4 and 5, it was one of the best shows on television.

das

I also agree that season 2 and 3 was some of the best, most creative TV programming.

I see the points on season 4 but I definitely enjoy it because it seems to be more of a personal struggle for each character than it was a group struggle, like in the previous seasons.

Thanks for the responses guys!

Thank you das, you bring up a good point... You see, why I think I'm not as down on season 4 as some Buffy fans, is precisely because I was glad they were out of high school, getting over all the teenage roller coaster idiocy, and happy they had gotten over character defining and got into a little character growth. While seasons 2 & 3 had some of the most emotional Buffy's, I just think the overall development and pacing of season 4 was better, and the objectives for everyones behavior grew in every episode, instead of in pieces. I think it finally found its pace, with everyone comforatable in their skin, glidning along in a more defined path.

Oh yeah, and this Monday and Tuesday- HOLY HECK- The "I" in Team and Goodbye, Iowa on Monday, and This Years Girl and Who Are You? on Tuesday, back to back two of the better Buffy two-parters in a row. Nothing like that happened in season 2.

As with most things, different strokes ... I enjoy the development of the characters when things are still raw more than what these characters do once they're comfortable in their skin. Also, I really like the parallels between high school and the hell mouth. College is about growth, trying new things, learning who you are as a person. High school is hell ... literally. I liked that. And from a personal perspective, the Angel storyline really worked for me, and there were points during Seasons 2 and 3 where I felt like my heart was being ripped from my chest. I never had as much emotional attachment to the following seasons, probably because a lot of it was retreading old territory: Buffy doesn't fit in, Buffy has turbulent relationship with fellow demon hunter, Xander feels left out, Giles feels useless, etc. We already did that.

das

I love the episode the I Team. That totally rocks. Also, I like the fact that the military just doen't get it when it comes to demons. They don't realize they can have a larger purpose other than just killing things. Buffy sees more than they do.

I'm a liker of fourth season for the most part.

I'd venture that Buffy has a monster I.Q. :) It's been hinted at that Buffy is pretty smart (did well on her SATs, and even crushed Willow on her Psyche paper), but just lacks focus and direction since she's got that slayage thing going on. If she were to go back to civilian life, I'm sure she'd land on her feet if she applied herself.

Looks like the girl that played Buffy's demon room-mate is in the new Yahoo commercial - the one with the superhero and the purse-snatcher.

Kathy's in a commercial? She spooked me.

Do you believe in love after love after love after love after love ...

das

It's Cher/Share time! (tm)

Ewwww, Spike Lips; lips of Spike...... :)

Can someone explain to me something about "Pangs"? (I think that was the Thanksgiving episode)?

In the beginning Buffy is moping about not having a traditional Thanksgiving, when it is decided the gang will have one at Giles'.

Was it ever explained where is Buffy's mom at this point? Why wouldn't Buffy have Thanksgiving with her mom?

Perhaps Joyce went out of town (she probably wouldn't show up at Giles' place given their, ahem, history from "Band Candy") :)

Also there isn't too much mention of her father...talk about your dead-beat dads.

RE: deadbeat dad:

Well, that's just one of Buffy's issues of abandonment that creeps out on display every now and then. In fact, in a recent FX Buffy, her fear was that everyone around her would leave her.

Okay, I forgot the creep factor when Maggie was watching them.

Heh, all I was thinking was "Maggie Walsh, you freak!" :)

Thoughts on "The I in Team" and "Goodbye Iowa"

That Adam dude is just atrocious to look at. What a f'd-up guy that guy is. Tell me this isn't the Big Bad for season 4... (But he is).

I wished Riley got skewered and died in "Goodbye Iowa" because I think Blucas is a terrible actor. I haven't bought the whole Buffy/Riley thing and most of it is because Blucas doesn't cut the mustard. At least after he made love to Buffy his whole world turned upside down and he was in for a world of pain and misery. Buffy seems to mess up the guys she goes to bed with.

Why did Tara fake the spell with Willow (by tossing the leaves/sage under her bed)?

I wished Maggie would have been kept alive because it would have been interesting to see her take on Buffy without underestimating her. Loved how Buffy delivered her warning shot back to Maggie via the headset vid-cam while in the tunnels after she put away those two battle-axe-wielding demons that looked like Tusken Raiders.

I found it ironic that Xander is pushing those hideous health bars, and all the while Riley and company were getting their "fix" for their souped up strength/agility/endurance without realzing it. Anya's personality is finally solidifying to what she is like in present day episodes.

BTW, Spike continues to provide more laughs in the show. It was a good thing they converted him to being a non-biting vampire because he's just hysterical in the "Young Ones" sense. Having Giles make Spike pay for medical services was excellent.

I've seen everyone speak so highly of "The I in Team" over the past week, and I didn't agree, but with it so soon on the horizon I figured I'd wait for it to air before commenting.

Anyway, watching it again today, I don't think it's anything that special. It's a cool episode and one of the better episodes of the 4th season, but it wouldn't make my top 10 list. Part of this feeling is probably derived from finding the Initiative a little hokey at times and not completely buying the whole Adam thing. Also, I don't seem to have any real emotion attachment to the Riley/Buffy romance. So, while I love the scene with Buffy kicking *** and telling Walsh where to stick it, I'd rate this episode right alongside all the other really good ones, but I wouldn't quality it as great.

das

DANGLING PLOT POINT ALERT

So why were the Initiative still searching for Hostile 17 after letting him get away two episodes ago? I was wondering what happened to Spike. He was being chased by the military dudes in "A New Man" right before he drove into a wall.

So these super duper military dudes who were chasing after him suddenly stopped pursuing him after he crashed? How polite.....

The episode never showed what happened to Spike. I find it hard to believe he was able to slip from the crash undetected, unless he turned into a bat or something :)

I think Tara knew it would be dangerous to summon (forgot the name) and that Willow wasn't ready to handle it.

That's not the reason, but you won't find out until we get to the next season's episodes why not. If you feel like spoiling it, check here. Bear in mind that it was a spell to detect demons:

http://www.enteract.com/~perridox/Su...s/efamily.html

Good call.

I haven't watched seasons 4 & 5 since they aired and its fun to find stuff like this interweaved.

Here's the thing; if the Buffyverse were real, the military would attempt something as stupid as they're doing now on the show. They would try to create a super soldier that way. What can we say, they're pretty dumb somtimes.

Doesn't anyone find it interesting that Riley has some resemblance to Angel?

I don't, except for the hair color, but the hair style is different (I hate Angel's hairstyle, the gooped up hair that goes straight up from the forehead), and their faces aren't that similar either, Riley is more pug-like, while Angel's is more angular than Riley's.

But they both have penises. :)

Yea, but both big, blondish, athletic and baby faced?

Ooops....sorry about that...I missed most of season 5 so I was making a guess.

"We've enjoyed spanking."







Great line! :)

"Everyone's getting spanked, but me."

My biggest problem with most of season 4 is that there are far too many episodes in which the characters only do things because they're idiots. (The Marti Noxon school of plot development.)

That's not to say there weren't some good episodes, but as a whole they really missed the boat on the whole Initiative plot.

For instance, my biggest beef was that they blew a *major* way to make the season more interesting.

(I haven't been watching the reruns, so I'm unsure of what they're up to, so spoilers.)

I agree. I wish they had built up the way the Initiative goes about things scientificially, where the Scoobys rely on the ancient texts to get their info.

It would have been great if Bussy & the Scoobys dug up some very useful info about a demon while the Initiative were totally going about it the wrong way.

It would have been great to see Giles reluctantly drafted into the Initiative to help do research :)

I think they killed off Maggie too soon. They should have kept her around longer as a nemesis for Buffy.

I always chalked that up to not wanting to repeat the Principal Snyder Syndrome of someone always breathing down Buffy's neck and questioning her actions. That and the fact that "guest stars" cost more $money$.

I forgot just how much Scientist!Buffy = hot :)

But anyway, I think that there was enough contrast between the methods of the Intitiative and the Scoobies in this and the past few episodes (A New Man, Doomed). And the Scoobies' methods prevailed those other times. And the Initiative as nemesis offered a lot more possibilities than as a tenuous ally. Of course, it's almost the end of the seaon, so they couldn't really elaborate either way.

Tonight's going to be This Year's Girl/Who are You?, i.e. the best episodes of Season 4 (right under [i]Hush[/b]. This will be great. Too bad we won't be able to see the last two parts of this arc since they're on Angel.

I read an interesting idea somewhere else: Season 2 and 3 were strongly based in the episodic, while the larger arc was subject to the individual storylines. However, Season 4 and 5 rely much more on continuity between episodes and have a stronger overreaching story. Therefore, Seasons 4 and 5 will seem worse taken on a weekly basis, as the story will seem to proceed slowly. However, conversely, it should seem much better if watched within a short period of time. For all of you who saw Season 4 the first time around, has your opinion changed after seeing 2 episodes a day? I've certainly noticed a lot of things I missed the first time around.

Did anyone else remember the foreshadowing in the opening of "This Year's Girl"? Faith mentions little sis.