For those who had questions on foreshadowing and were curious as to whether or not Joss had things planned seasons in advance; according to the info during Something Blue, Joss started to line things up for Dawn in Season 3. Good possibility that some of the stuff we saw earlier on was doing just that.

Okay, I just noticed one of the inconsistencies mentioned in the timeline. In Becoming Part 2, Angel supposedly had his soul restored in 1898. How could he still be evil and with Darla, Drusilla and Spike in the Boxer Revolution in 1900?

Ok..I can answer that question...He did have his soul...He was just acting...if you see the Angel version after Spikes version...you see why:)...Ok...back to lurking:)

I think the 'blow something up' at the end of The Harvest is referring to the fact that she blew up the gym from her last school.

IIRC, Angel got his soul restored in the 1900's or 1910's, he'd been a bum for over 80 years until Whistler found him in the alley and led Angel to his first glimpse of Buffy at her previous high school circa 1996.

No..Whisler said Angel was a bum for 90 years...If you have seen the "Angel" version you see him trying to stop one of them from kill innocent people...but, I could be mistaken...But, I do think I remember that:)

Yup... it was a baby he was protecting, if my memory serves.

So, even at 90 years of bummage, that still leaves Angel 5 years after the boxer rebellion to be cursed with his soul by the gypsies.

Okay, I'm going by the date they put in Becoming part 2. They showed the date as 1898 and he was being cursed by gypsies. I do remember him saving the baby, but I don't remember where and when that was.

It was in the Angel Season 2 episode "Darla"-- 1900, during the Boxer Rebellion. Here's a link to a recap of the episode: Darla . They did get one date wrong... they said it was 1989 when Spike botched Darla's attempts to get the gypsies to revoke the spell, when it was 1899. Pretty easy mistake to make, switching the numbers..

CM - thanks for the link and for clearing up the fuzzy.

Does anybody remember School Hard when Spike and Dru attack the school? Spike says to Angel, you were my Yoda, my sire. Another inconsistency. Dru made Spike, not Angel. She was his sire.

I remember reading an explanation for this somewhere: a vamp's sire's sire can also be considered their sire. So, since Angel made Dru, Spike is technically correct.

The show seems to use every bit of vampire lore and superstition except for the changing of a vampire back to human, by killing the "head vampire". That is the lore states that if you kill the head of a cadre of vampires the ones he made will change back.

I wonder why this didn't enter into their story lines as they have killed lots of "head vampires" like The Master.

Also, these vamps don't shape shift. Most can either turn into wolves or bats.

Another inconsistency I noticed is with Angel's age. He first said he was 241 years old. But when they showed him turning into a vampire the year was something like 1753. He was at least 18 when he turned, so the numbers don't add up right.

I think that would cause all sorts of logistical problems (even besides the plot problems), because there had to be a first vampire somwhere, and A) either the very first vampire is still alive (and therefore incredibly powerful), or B) he's been killed, and there shouldn't be any vampires left anyway. Not to mention the fact that all sorts of problems would come about when vampires are brought back to life (Angel, or almost the Master, for example... would their victims then revert?).

I think I remember an interview with Joss Whedon talking about why they didn't transform into bats or mist: he said each transformation takes a few thousand bucks in special effects, and they just had better ways to use their money.

Well the lore doesn't state the you have to kill the very first vampire to "cure" the rest of them, but rather the one that creates vampires to form a cadre that he/she leads.

Undoubtably they have their reasons for not including all the vampire lore, which there is a lot of. I was just thinking it would have made a great season arc on BTVS for Buffy to go on a quest to find Darla's cadre leader to revert Angel. Or even a good season arc for Angel doing the same.

Its funny too that he has ideas of where certain little or major things are going, and you think he has this great, grand plan,... and then you find out he intended for Spike to be killed, but once he saw the popularity of the character, at the last minute he had to keep thinking of ways to keep him around from season to season. Now that arc he never had planned, just created from season to season, has become a huge one.

palebluedot - the vamp that made Darla was the Master. If that were the case, Angel would have been cured at the end of the first season.

CM - I can understand why they didn't want to do all the shap-shifting. Even if it weren't for the $$$. I like the fact that he's created some of his own mythos for the show.

Completely agree. It makes for some mighty interesting discussion board probing questions as well:) I'm sure most of what Whedon does is worked out in his mind too and I know I have missed an episode (or two--but hoping to cure that) where my question is probably explained already. Has he really ever just left anything 'hanging' out there with no explanation? I can't really think of anything offhand.

I'm probably the only one on the planet wishing Riley would come back. I think it would be particularly interesting if he did, since he's one of the few with the resources (his ties to the government) to remove the chip in Spike's head.

I didn't dislike Riley either. I wouldn't mind if he came back.

The only thing that I can think of off of the top of my head that was left hanging is what the government did with Ethan Rayne once the Initiative project was shutdown.

I wouldn't mind seeing Riley again, just not as a love interest for Buffy. I never fully bought into that the first time, and I certainly don't want to see it brought up again. But there was some definite promise with The Initiative and Riley's character. It seemed to get too bogged down with the whole Adam and Mrs. Walsh thing, though.

das

The Amy/Rat thing was a big loose thread for the longest time.

And there have been a few episodes that potentially had loose ends - like that invisible girl who got recruited by the government. They could do something with it, but maybe not.

They'll never tie up all the loose ends. It's impractical, and a lot of monsters were left alive for effect but will obviously never be back (ie, the swim team went out to sea). The big ones that I think need to be tied up before the series ends are:

Riley (although I agree, not as Buffy's love interest)
Faith (This will be a toughie)
Oz (Does anyone else think it would be really cool, even though I love Seth Green, to see Willow off Oz this season?)
Drusilla (although her story has transferred more towards Angel now)
Angel (And I have no idea how they'll do this while he still has his own show.)
And for those watching the new ones:

Giles isn't really a loose end. He left to go back to England. Theoretically, he's getting his own show.

Angel isn't really a loose end either. He moved on.

I think a lot has come around to be explained, I mean even Amy is back. Sometimes it ends up being in a different season. Even this season is different in that there really hasn't been one true villain presented.

I agree though that those monsters are still out there in the sea somewhere looking for steroid users though:)

A.M. Buffy repeats edited?
 

Does anyone know why FX would edit the repeats being shown in the morning?

I had never seen Buffy before FX started playing the re-runs, so I watched "Graduation Day" for the first time last week.

This morning on my ReplayTv it started taping the reruns at 7 & 8 am. Before I deleted it, I just HAD to watch the Angel drinking Buffy scene because I thought that was so hot.

But in the nighttime version, there was a shot of Buffy squeezing a metal pot until it bent. This shot was suspiciously absent this morning.

Now I realize in syndication episodes are often trimmed for length so that more ads can be shown. However, I found it odd that FX would show it one way and then cut down later.

Or was this considerd too hot for 8 am? :)

"Living Conditions"

This was a fun episode, with Buffy at odds with her roommate Kathy. It had many LOL moments (the "got milk" scene would have made milk run through my nose if I were drinking it). The episode had a sense of "The Hidden" vibe to it. What's really fun about this episode is all the little moments of adjusting to college life and an annoying roommate, which hit home for me in many ways (I had 13 diferent roommates in college - I was a co-op student).

Now I know why Kathy doesn't get much mention since she only lasts a couple of episodes.

I thought that Cher song playing in the background could be a bit of far-reaching foreshadowing (Do you believe in love after life) w/r/t Buffy in the seasons to come.

----------

"The Harsh Light of Day"

Boo! Hiss! I hope we never see this "Parker" ever again. What a putz! Damn, I would kick Parker's butt if I could. I knew this guy was a poser, just a little disappointed that Buffy fell for his "Seize the day" spiel.

Anya's reappearance was played for some good laughs, and you can tell her speech pattern is evolving to what it is nowadays, very direct and innocent (in tone). Obviously we now know that Xander and Anya do develop into a couple, but their stumbling beginnings are also fun to watch. That was a classic moment when Xander squeezes that box drink after Anya drops her lingere.

I knew I wasn't seeing things when I saw Harmony get bitten by a vampire in Graduation Part 2 last season. Grouchy Spike is a gas, I don't know how he put up with Harmony either.

Plus finding out that Giles owns a TV was a highlight in character development. And when Xander complains to Giles about his book filing system: It's alphabetical. Doh! LOL!

How did Spike know that Buffy did the nasty with Parker?

The Buffy stunt woman was pretty obvious in most of the action scenes for both of these episodes. I take it, it will be this way for the rest of the season.

I just figured he could overhear the conversation with Parker. He seemed to be standing pretty close by, and vampires have really good hearing. I don't know if Buffy came right out and said she slept with Parker, but it was probably pretty obvious to anybody who heard their conversation.

In case you didn't watch the 1st season of Angel, this was a semi-crossover with In The Dark.

Thanks for the Angel episode guide link. There's no telling when I'll get to see Season 1 and 2 of Angel...

No problem. I was just watching it today and thinking to myself "Boy, that wouldn't make a whole lot of sense without seeing the corresponding episode of Angel. They work up the entire show talking about how powerful that ring is, and Buffy just yanks it off his hand?"

Holy crap. I used to watch Deep Space 9 all the time, but I haven't seen an episode in years. I finally rewatched an old episode, and I recognized Quark's (the Romulan) voice, but I couldn't place it. Then I realized it was the same guy who played Prinicipal Snyder. Freaky.

Don't you mean "Ferengi"? :)

I thought the Halloween episode from season 4 was pretty good (I'd seen it on the Halloween night round of episodes). The main thing was the last thing that the mini-demon said to Buffy: "All of your friends will abandon you" (or something to that effect), and then Buffy squashes him.

The "Beer Bad" episode was pretty funny, a little uneven, but plenty of small laughs sprinkled in the episode. I hope Buffy is finally over Parker. It was funny to see Willow bust Parker on his charming ways. Xander, as a bartender, was predictably pathetic (plus the Cocktail reference was funny).

Yeah. D'oh.

I've seen comments like this over and over but still don't see it. Season 4: The Initiative/Adam. We had hints early in the season that something was going on but didn't really get a look at the Initiative until, what, episode 7? And didn't know there was actually something Big Bad-worthy going on there until something like 14?

My guess is a true villain has been presented but not yet identified as such.

Oh, for that I was referring to the current season on UPN:) This seems very different from how it has been handled before. The true villain was usually always looming in the capacity we recognized, especially with regards to the Master and the Mayor.

In "Pangs" I thought the Native American baddies were poor, but the sideplot of Buffy wanting to have a Thanksgiving dinner for her friends pretty funny. Like when she's giving food preparation instructions while dealing with the baddies.

Plus, Spike as comic relief is a hoot. Giles and Willow's disagreement on the meaning of Thanksgiving (and eradicating native Americans) takes on a strange slant with Giles being British.

In "Something Blue", I have to wonder if any of the Spike/Buffy getting married dealio was long-range foreshadowing to the present storyline on UPN. I wonder how much the actress who played Amy (Elizabeth Anne ...something) got paid for 2 seconds of nekkid screen time :) Riley is such a stiff. Don't really like him much in the charisma department. When the spell was rescinded and Buffy and Spike realize they were kissing each other, their reactions were comical as hell.

Season 4 just has such a strange vibe about it, but I don't find that I think the episodes are all that "bad", but rather just on a different venue with a larger stage. The high school seasons had a smaller feel to them.

Oh, does Giles even have a job in Season 4? It's quite funny how he manages to still be tight contact with all of the scoobs and Buffy. Also, the way they write Xander into season 4 episode is truly creative writing 101. :)

Tonight, two of season fours better episodes...

"Doomed"- Which will be a tad confusing without Hush as a lead in, showinig Buffy and Riley discovering each others seceret lives. Plus "Doomed" is worth it just for Spikes revelation about his chips limits.

and "A New Man"- definitley one of the comedic highlights and my favorite Giles episode.

Guess they scrapped the plans of showing 'Amends' in place of 'Hush'. Good idea. It was weird to hear Buffy talk about seeing Angel in LA without having 'I Will Remember You' in there.

das