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Buffy: TVS (10/9/01)

Old 10-09-01, 07:27 PM
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Buffy: TVS (10/9/01)

Post your thoughts on tonight's episode here.

Personally, after seeing that great episode of Angel on Monday, I'm sorta disappoited with how Buffy is going so far. There's been a lot of improvement in Angel from its 2nd to 3rd season (widescreen airing, better character development, tighter cinematography and editing) while Buffy still looks the same as it did in Season 3. Why the disparity? I mean, they're both being produced by the same company still, right?
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Old 10-09-01, 08:03 PM
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Buffy's as good as it's always been. We just expect too much. It's difficult to keep growing significantly each year after 6 seasons. As for Angel, it's really grown into an excellent show.

Tonight's Buffy? Very happy with it. I'm glad the issues I addressed last week were prominent in this episode. These are the consequences I was hoping for, and I'm sure they have great plans for developing them over the season. I was skeptical after 'Bargaining', but I'm ready now. Bring on the Buffy!

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Old 10-09-01, 08:23 PM
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Whatever the faults of this episode, that last scene was pretty powerful. I expected that she was lying, but it was just great to see her true feelings revealed - to Spike
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Old 10-09-01, 08:30 PM
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I thought it was great. It was well paced and they showed a remarkable ability to let the characters and actors do some stretching. The last two scenes showed two things primarily: a) The Buffy character is a truly selfless character; b) SMG is one heck of an actress. She was truly amazing.

I'm going to be low key for a while. So I'll catch up with you guys later.
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Old 10-09-01, 11:17 PM
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They've been saying all along that her gift was death and she got it. I actually thought about that when they kept referring to her 'hell'. Pretty powerful last scene.

I'm pretty psyched for the rest of the season. Next episode looks promising. I'm hoping now that the 'Buffy returns' story is over they'll increase the humor levels....
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Old 10-09-01, 11:40 PM
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I thought the episode was great. It was so moving to hear Buffy talk about
Spoiler:
being in heaven.

SMG is such a great actress. Buffy's had so much pain and so much of that angst with not being able to have a normal life, and finally she was able to rest, but her friends wouldn't let her. It will truly show her loyalty to them. I never imagined how they could've topped Glory, and they can't physically, so it has to be almost 100% emotional. I can't wait, personally.
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Old 10-10-01, 12:24 AM
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That last scene... Profound.... and to Spike, no less? Hmm... I wonder where that's going. In any case, I'm in it for the rest of the ride.
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Old 10-10-01, 02:44 AM
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God, I was waiting the whole episode for her to finally say she wasn't in hell at all. I don't need spoiler tags do I? I mean she's the slayer, she saved the world how many times? Why would they assume she wouldn't be rewarded for her efforts? I hope they find out that Willow killed that deer soon because man was she lying through her teeth when that demon was talking bout the blood being on her hands.
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Old 10-10-01, 05:36 AM
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The Buffy in heaven didn't surprise me at all. She's done so much good in her life and then sacrificed it to save the world. Why Willow would assume she was in hell is beyond me.

It's becoming apparent that the scooby gang brought her back for selfish reasons. They missed her, they needed help fighting monsters, etc etc. When she got back, they looked like they expected her to go on patrol asap. I can understand Dawn wanting her back, but the others are adults and should've been able to accept reality.

At least the Buffy/Spike relationship has a solid foundation now. It's understandable that even though she hated spike a few months ago, Buffy feels closer to him now than anyone else.

D
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Old 10-10-01, 06:14 AM
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Looks as if I'm the only one who was a little disappointed in the show tonight - and I can't even explain why! Maybe it was just because the overtones were all "doom and gloom" again since Buffy really ISN'T happy to be back...

But, in an effort to align myself with you all and not get boo-ed out of the TV Talk forum (LOL), I totally agree that the final scene between Buffy and Spike was extremely powerful and very well done - couldn't have been better. What drama and emotion! It does speak very well of SMG's acting ability, but I think James Marsters did an excellent job tonight, too - in all of his scenes.

Okay, I've rambled...no worries. Still a Buffy fanatic. Just hope that the show gets a bit more lighthearted again soon - all these sad episodes are making me cry...

Kal
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Old 10-10-01, 11:13 AM
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Lovely ep! The last segment (from Buffy giving Dawn her lunch through the end of the show) was very moving, and a real turning point, plotwise...

I understand that many fans get tired of the gloomy bits, but personally, I can't get enough of 'em... As long as the dialog is sparkling and snarky (usually true no matter how dreary the issue) I hope they can get even darker, plotwise...

They've had a huge amount of "plot road" to travel in order to get us to accept a possible Buffy & Spike relationship. It's been almost a full season since they started dropping small hints, and for the longest time I've been a doubter. It seems to pose all kinds of unanswerable problems with the Buffyverse mythology, particularly when it comes to having a soul or not...

But I have to say, Joss has travelled that road with nary a mis-step, and I'm now on board... Buffy really needs someone who can understand what she's going through, and the other Scoobs (God love 'em) all seem hopelessly shallow or clueless in comparison to Spike, who understands the metaphysical big picture... For better or worse, Spike has always transcended the mundane, ordinary world...
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Old 10-10-01, 11:47 AM
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Originally posted by spainlinx0
[...] I hope they find out that Willow killed that deer soon because man was she lying through her teeth when that demon was talking bout the blood being on her hands.
I get the feeling that Willow's gonna be hiding lots of things from now on... Mostly because she's scared... This week's demon-ghost's rantings seem to point toward lots of trouble ahead, like they've done something really really reckless, dangerous and wrong...

Speculator's Corner:
Spoiler:
If Willow turns out to be this season's arch-enemy, how do you think the others will line up? Will it be Buffy vs. the Gang, or Willow vs. Everyone, or something else?

I'm guessing that Willow successfully snows Tara and Xander. Buff's relationship with Spike will throw another big wedge between them. I think that Xander and Anya's engagement will explode into a huge mess, and that Anya will end up siding with Buffy and Spike... My bet is for a major war between Buffy/Spike/Anya (good guys) and Willow/Tara/Xander (mislead guys) in addition to whatever outside evils they fight this year...
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Old 10-10-01, 11:54 AM
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Originally posted by adamblast
...
Spoiler:

Gotta agree with you on the Anya/Xander thing. Willow has to go astray or Joss is a *****, so I'll assume that's the future we're heading for. I'm hoping for lots of divided loyalties (not in a cheesy Dawson's Creek manner) storyline, one of which should be Anya and Xander, especially Xander. For him to choose between Buffy and Willow on any issue would be horrible for him. And if Anya leans the other way ... there are lots of possibilities.


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Old 10-10-01, 12:20 PM
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I still forget to consider Dawn in most of my musings, although she's certainly here to stay... She plays an important part in the Buffyverse franchise future, and is going to be prominently featured in the upcoming kid's cartoon series... Joss and the creative team (and the cast) all seem to talk like Michelle T's the most talented actor on the show, which I can't really see, although I think she's good...

When's that cartoon scheduled to start, anyway? Isn't it sometime this year? I understand it'll be permanent mid-high school, like Seasons 1 & 2, but with Dawn added...

Spoiler:
I guess Dawn would side with Buffy & Spike in my scenario, since she trusts him more than the other Scoobs do...
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Old 10-10-01, 12:30 PM
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Originally posted by adamblast
I still forget to consider Dawn in most of my musings, although she's certainly here to stay... She plays an important part in the Buffyverse franchise future, and is going to be prominently featured in the upcoming kid's cartoon series... Joss and the creative team (and the cast) all seem to talk like Michelle T's the most talented actor on the show, which I can't really see, although I think she's good...
She's alright, but she's not as good as SMG was six seasons ago. I don't know why they're all so high on her. Her "drama" is oftentimes "melodrama" (it could be said that that comes with being female ) and sometimes I find her just too annoying to look at.

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Old 10-10-01, 12:39 PM
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Originally posted by spainlinx0
God, I was waiting the whole episode for her to finally say she wasn't in hell at all. I don't need spoiler tags do I? I mean she's the slayer, she saved the world how many times? Why would they assume she wouldn't be rewarded for her efforts? I hope they find out that Willow killed that deer soon because man was she lying through her teeth when that demon was talking bout the blood being on her hands.
I was too, it wouldn't make any sense for her to be in hell. The baddies she puts away go to hell, supposedly. If there's a hell there must be heaven and if she fights evil she must be good, You've got the whole cosmic yin/yang kharma thing going on. I'd be insulted if my friends thought I went to hell
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Old 10-10-01, 12:40 PM
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Originally posted by Jad
That last scene... Profound.... and to Spike, no less? Hmm... I wonder where that's going. In any case, I'm in it for the rest of the ride.
I think we all know what's going on there She's vulnerable, he's the only one of her 'friends' that seems to care about where she was and what happened. Hmm...
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Old 10-10-01, 01:04 PM
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GREAT episode. It was fantastic, I was on edge the enitire time. I kind of suspected that she would be wreched out of a peaceful place; you know, Joss would pull a 180, its a standard writing device. But, the premiere had me leaning towards Buffy not having any post death memory and being haunted by the thought she should be dead, sacrificed. Glad I was wrong, because its a far trickier and interesting path they've decided to go down...
The Scoobs were not entirely selfish...Remeber, they did think she was in Hell (although Angel has taught us Hell is Earth) or a the least some horrible demon dimension...
I agree Dawn isnt the greatest actress, but not so bad I am annoyed. She does so-so, considering...

As far as people not liking the episode, or thinking its too gloomy, What do You Want? This aint Little House on the Prairie. Its the darkness they delve into that makes the show work. It cant all be funny quips and knock out action; the balance between drama, comedy, horror, and action is what makes the show work. If its too dark for you go watch Waltons reruns.

Love the way this season is developing

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Old 10-10-01, 01:28 PM
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I thought it was a great ep, too. I don't think the Scoobs' overlooking the possibility Buffy might not have been in a Hellish place is too far fetched. They *needed* to believe they were "saving" her in order to actually go through with the spell.

Also ditto on the last scene. Of course, when Buffy says "they can never know," obviously they will. I could see guilt being a big factor in completing Willow's drive over the edge.
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Old 10-10-01, 01:38 PM
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I thought last nights episode was much better than the season opener, which seemed to drag on for ever and ever. They should have put these two eps together and that would have made a great season opener.

What about Dawn? Is she going to be developing powers this season? I mean she is made from mystical energy?

I would love to see Willow go evil! I still drool over the Vamp Willow from a few seasons back...wow she was hot.
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Old 10-10-01, 01:55 PM
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I believe they thought Buffy was in a demon-dimension/hell, because when she sacrificed herself by jumping, she was killed by that portal to hell. Her soul would have left and possibly been sucked into the hell-portal.
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Old 10-10-01, 03:30 PM
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Okay - I'm the baddy now because I'm looking forward to more "cheery" episodes...did anyone consider that I just don't want to CRY though an entire hour of Buffy every week!? ::sniff sniff::

Never said that the serious, dramatic aspect of the show was bad. As you said, it's one of the parts of the intricate balance Joss has been able to maintain with this show.
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Old 10-10-01, 03:38 PM
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Originally posted by KrazyKal99
Okay - I'm the baddy now because I'm looking forward to more "cheery" episodes...did anyone consider that I just don't want to CRY though an entire hour of Buffy every week!? ::sniff sniff::

Never said that the serious, dramatic aspect of the show was bad. As you said, it's one of the parts of the intricate balance Joss has been able to maintain with this show.
Yes, you're now my nemisis!! You'll rue the day you dared to post an actual opinion on this board, particularly one which could be disagreed with!! I'd offer you a kleenex for your sniffles, but you're too evil. Use your sleeve like all the other baddies.
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Old 10-10-01, 03:54 PM
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Originally posted by adamblast
Yes, you're now my nemisis!! You'll rue the day you dared to post an actual opinion on this board, particularly one which could be disagreed with!! I'd offer you a kleenex for your sniffles, but you're too evil. Use your sleeve like all the other baddies.
We're talking eminent rueage.

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(Or is the quote 'imminent rueage' ... guess it could go either way)
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Old 10-10-01, 05:24 PM
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I must admit that I've only been a fan of Buffy for about 2 years....but the show keeps making me come back for more....

Spike is without a doubt my favorite character....I can't wait until he and Buffy get together....the look on his face when he saw the real Buffy alive and in the flesh was priceless....

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