Buffy/Angel crossovers next season
05-23-01, 03:06 PM
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Considering the discussion about Angel ond Buffy finales, and the lingering speculation on series crossovers...i ran across this article which seem sto give the final (fairly disheartening) word on the matter...
THIS ARTICLE CONTAINS SPOILERS ABOUT THE SEASON 5 FINALE OF BUFFY UK/European readers beware.
LA TIMES-Wednesday, May 23, 2001
Is It the End of the Road for 'Buffy'-'Angel' Connection?
Television * Crossover episodes appear unlikely for the shows, which will be on different networks come fall.
By T.L. STANLEY, Special to The Times
David E. Kelley did it with "Ally McBeal" and "The Practice," blending story lines and cast members from the two legal eagle shows for a crossover episode a few years back, even though the former airs on Fox and the latter on ABC.
Can the same be done with "Buffy the Vampire Slayer" and "Angel," now that the flagship show and its spinoff will find themselves on different networks come fall?
Not likely, say network executives and the shows' producers, even though Tuesday night's season finale of "Angel" featured an appearance by a "Buffy" regular and seemingly set the stage for further melding of the two comedy-action dramas.
There's too much bad blood after the protracted and public fight over the show between the WB and 20th Century Fox TV, "Buffy's" producer, according to sources on both sides. That battle landed "Buffy" on rival UPN with a 44-episode guarantee at an estimated $2.3 million per. The WB had been paying about $1 million an episode and balked at more than doubling that price, with then-WB chief Jamie Kellner saying it wasn't the network's top-rated program and that it had limited appeal.
"There's acrimony here, and I like to kid myself and say it'll fade," said Joss Whedon, executive producer of "Buffy" and co-creator, with David Greenwalt, of "Angel." "A lot of people got bruised. I haven't broached the subject yet [of future crossovers], and now's not the time."
One crossover that already had been planned for next season was recently dumped. Angel, played by David Boreanaz, was scheduled to drop in on the "Buffy" gang, but another character will fill that role, according to Whedon.
There had been a number of crossovers between "Buffy" and "Angel," particularly in the spinoff's first season. (It just finished its second year.) Boreanaz appeared in a "Buffy" episode this spring.
"[Buffy and Angel] will and can reference each other," Whedon said, "but the big emotions can't be about each other. They haven't been for the past year. There will always be a lingering tie, but both do have to move on."
The WB couldn't agree more.
"In order for 'Angel' to succeed long term on the WB, it must evolve into a self-contained show," a network spokesman said. This season, "Buffy" has averaged 4.4 million viewers, while "Angel" is averaging 4.1 million, retaining more than 90% of the Buffy audience.
The appearance of "Buffy" pal Willow, played by Alyson Hannigan, on Tuesday night's "Angel" season finale was not meant to imply more crossovers were in the offing, Whedon said. The character showed up in Los Angeles to deliver the news in person to Angel that Buffy died while saving her younger sister (Michelle Trachtenberg) and averting an apocalypse.
Crossovers have been used for years as stunts, particularly at sweeps time, and not always with shows by the same producer. Characters from NBC's now-dead "Homicide: Life on the Street" bled into "Law & Order," and vice versa, while sitcom stars have popped up on other same-network series. The WB recently put its "Popstars" in an episode of "Sabrina, the Teenage Witch."
Cross-network crossovers, though, are rarer, with Kelley being one of the few producers with the clout to pull it off. The first one, "Ally"-"The Practice," ran back to back on the same night and ruffled some feathers with Fox affiliates who argued that they would lose viewers for their local news to a highly promoted 10 p.m. episode of "The Practice." And "Ally," at that time in spring '98, was stronger in the ratings.
There was less hubbub when Kelley crossed over newcomer "Boston Public," on Fox, with the now-established "Practice." The story unfolded on consecutive nights. "Buffy" and "Angel" crossed story lines during this past season only occasionally, Whedon said, but keeping them wholly separate will be a creative challenge.
"There are some restrictions that come with it," he said. "But, in a way, it's like other changes you face. If you lose a cast member, for instance, like we did with Seth Green [who played Oz on "Buffy"], you work through it, and inevitably, it can lead to better situations."
[Edited by iaido on 05-24-01 at 11:20 AM]
THIS ARTICLE CONTAINS SPOILERS ABOUT THE SEASON 5 FINALE OF BUFFY UK/European readers beware.
LA TIMES-Wednesday, May 23, 2001
Is It the End of the Road for 'Buffy'-'Angel' Connection?
Television * Crossover episodes appear unlikely for the shows, which will be on different networks come fall.
By T.L. STANLEY, Special to The Times
David E. Kelley did it with "Ally McBeal" and "The Practice," blending story lines and cast members from the two legal eagle shows for a crossover episode a few years back, even though the former airs on Fox and the latter on ABC.
Can the same be done with "Buffy the Vampire Slayer" and "Angel," now that the flagship show and its spinoff will find themselves on different networks come fall?
Not likely, say network executives and the shows' producers, even though Tuesday night's season finale of "Angel" featured an appearance by a "Buffy" regular and seemingly set the stage for further melding of the two comedy-action dramas.
There's too much bad blood after the protracted and public fight over the show between the WB and 20th Century Fox TV, "Buffy's" producer, according to sources on both sides. That battle landed "Buffy" on rival UPN with a 44-episode guarantee at an estimated $2.3 million per. The WB had been paying about $1 million an episode and balked at more than doubling that price, with then-WB chief Jamie Kellner saying it wasn't the network's top-rated program and that it had limited appeal.
"There's acrimony here, and I like to kid myself and say it'll fade," said Joss Whedon, executive producer of "Buffy" and co-creator, with David Greenwalt, of "Angel." "A lot of people got bruised. I haven't broached the subject yet [of future crossovers], and now's not the time."
One crossover that already had been planned for next season was recently dumped. Angel, played by David Boreanaz, was scheduled to drop in on the "Buffy" gang, but another character will fill that role, according to Whedon.
There had been a number of crossovers between "Buffy" and "Angel," particularly in the spinoff's first season. (It just finished its second year.) Boreanaz appeared in a "Buffy" episode this spring.
"[Buffy and Angel] will and can reference each other," Whedon said, "but the big emotions can't be about each other. They haven't been for the past year. There will always be a lingering tie, but both do have to move on."
The WB couldn't agree more.
"In order for 'Angel' to succeed long term on the WB, it must evolve into a self-contained show," a network spokesman said. This season, "Buffy" has averaged 4.4 million viewers, while "Angel" is averaging 4.1 million, retaining more than 90% of the Buffy audience.
The appearance of "Buffy" pal Willow, played by Alyson Hannigan, on Tuesday night's "Angel" season finale was not meant to imply more crossovers were in the offing, Whedon said. The character showed up in Los Angeles to deliver the news in person to Angel that Buffy died while saving her younger sister (Michelle Trachtenberg) and averting an apocalypse.
Crossovers have been used for years as stunts, particularly at sweeps time, and not always with shows by the same producer. Characters from NBC's now-dead "Homicide: Life on the Street" bled into "Law & Order," and vice versa, while sitcom stars have popped up on other same-network series. The WB recently put its "Popstars" in an episode of "Sabrina, the Teenage Witch."
Cross-network crossovers, though, are rarer, with Kelley being one of the few producers with the clout to pull it off. The first one, "Ally"-"The Practice," ran back to back on the same night and ruffled some feathers with Fox affiliates who argued that they would lose viewers for their local news to a highly promoted 10 p.m. episode of "The Practice." And "Ally," at that time in spring '98, was stronger in the ratings.
There was less hubbub when Kelley crossed over newcomer "Boston Public," on Fox, with the now-established "Practice." The story unfolded on consecutive nights. "Buffy" and "Angel" crossed story lines during this past season only occasionally, Whedon said, but keeping them wholly separate will be a creative challenge.
"There are some restrictions that come with it," he said. "But, in a way, it's like other changes you face. If you lose a cast member, for instance, like we did with Seth Green [who played Oz on "Buffy"], you work through it, and inevitably, it can lead to better situations."
[Edited by iaido on 05-24-01 at 11:20 AM]
05-23-01, 10:39 PM
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I'm really unhappy that you didn't put a spoiler tag or warning in this post. In the UK, we have yet to see the season finales for these shows. 
Please correct this.
Please correct this.
05-24-01, 01:25 PM
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Originally posted by Orson
I'm really unhappy that you didn't put a spoiler tag or warning in this post. In the UK, we have yet to see the season finales for these shows.
Please correct this.
I'm really unhappy that you didn't put a spoiler tag or warning in this post. In the UK, we have yet to see the season finales for these shows.
Please correct this.
05-24-01, 07:26 PM
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Well, it's not an out and out no. The way I look at it is that it may not be probable, it's not impossible. Bottom line, if there's money to be made, they'll do it.
05-25-01, 10:48 AM
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Originally posted by Orson
I'm really unhappy that you didn't put a spoiler tag or warning in this post. In the UK, we have yet to see the season finales for these shows.
Please correct this.
I'm really unhappy that you didn't put a spoiler tag or warning in this post. In the UK, we have yet to see the season finales for these shows.
Please correct this.
It's like people putting spoiler tags in the finale discussion. If you haven't seen the finale, why read the thread? Why protect someone who knowingly reads a thread about something they don't want to know about yet?
05-25-01, 11:10 AM
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Originally posted by renaldow
It seems that if you know people are discussing a show you know that your country is behind in, you would know there would be discussions happening that you don't want to hear.
It's like people putting spoiler tags in the finale discussion. If you haven't seen the finale, why read the thread? Why protect someone who knowingly reads a thread about something they don't want to know about yet?
Originally posted by Orson
I'm really unhappy that you didn't put a spoiler tag or warning in this post. In the UK, we have yet to see the season finales for these shows.
Please correct this.
I'm really unhappy that you didn't put a spoiler tag or warning in this post. In the UK, we have yet to see the season finales for these shows.
Please correct this.
It's like people putting spoiler tags in the finale discussion. If you haven't seen the finale, why read the thread? Why protect someone who knowingly reads a thread about something they don't want to know about yet?
das
05-25-01, 12:47 PM
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Originally posted by renaldow
It seems that if you know people are discussing a show you know that your country is behind in, you would know there would be discussions happening that you don't want to hear.
It seems that if you know people are discussing a show you know that your country is behind in, you would know there would be discussions happening that you don't want to hear.
05-25-01, 12:51 PM
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Originally posted by electra
Well, it's not an out and out no.
Well, it's not an out and out no.
Originally posted by renaldow
It seems that if you know people are discussing a show you know that your country is behind in, you would know there would be discussions happening that you don't want to hear.
It seems that if you know people are discussing a show you know that your country is behind in, you would know there would be discussions happening that you don't want to hear.
