Re: Borders Liquidation
 

Liquidation sales seem to bring out morons who don't understand the overinflated value of the stock in the first place; either that or it's the small subsection of the public who have always bought at Borders for retail.

Re: Borders Liquidation
 

I'm amazed at the long lines! Don't these people know they are paying more than they would have just a few weeks ago with a coupon?

Re: Borders Liquidation
 

It's weird how people rush to shop at HIGHER prices than they would've paid when the businesses were still going. When Circuit City went under, I saw posts about people fighting over things like a $2500 for 10% off that was on sale for $1800 two weeks earlier. If people had bought when they could've saved REAL money, then going-out-of-business sales wouldn't have been necessary. Irony!

Re: Borders Liquidation
 

Like Barnes and Noble, Borders sold most merchandise at suggested retail price. Unlike Barnes and Noble, Borders had a FREE Rewards program. The last year or two Borders offered a 25-33% off coupon just about every week. (Amazon discounts are in this range.) Once in a while, Borders sent out 40% off coupons. There were one or two 50% coupons.

I used to shop for books at both Borders and Amazon, but now I will shop exclusively at Amazon.

I wondered the same thing a few months ago when the local Borders closed.

Re: Borders Liquidation
 

^
This

Borders isn't the only chain that sells at MSRP, but (at least on these boards) seem to get a lot of negative attention. Just because a chain bookstore like Barnes & Noble is selling a Criterion Blu-Ray for 50% off (now) doesn't mean it isn't $39.99 for non-members the rest of the year.

I agree with a lot of you posting at the long lines at these closing sales. When my girlfriend and I went to my local store closing, the lines were ridiculous. If those folks actually used the constant 30-40% off coupons Borders had for books, maybe that store would be still open.

The lines were crazy when things went to 30% during that sale and I asked myself, "Wait, isn't 30% like the normal Borders Rewards Coupon?".

Oh well. As I've always said when these issues pop up, we'll see how competitive E-Tailers are when they've run out their competition.

Re: Borders Liquidation
 

It isn't 39.99 the rest of the year. All items 39.99 and up are discounted 10% in-store all year for non-members. Members save an additional 10% in stores. The Criterion sales are twice a year. B&N has a B2G1 free sale once (maybe twice) every year. B&N has coupons all year. Some of those coupons this year were 50% off, and unlike Borders, the coupons are taken off the selling price, not list price. If you paid full price for a Criterion then you are an idiot.
Hey, I liked Borders, I was a Rewards Plus member and spent a lot there, but they weren't as good as B&N and the results showed. They did try to improve towards the end with some better pricing, price matching, Rewards Plus etc. but it was too late.

Re: Borders Liquidation
 

When did I say I paid full price for a Criterion? We can keep the name calling down to a minimal.

Also what I was trying to say is that very few stores are free from MSRP pricing. There just always seemed so much hate for Borders here on these boards.

Hell, I worked for the company for 2 years as an Operations Manager and didn't hate the company quite as much as some of the posters here. As a former employee the shit really hit the fan when Ron Marshall was hired, tried all sorts of zany ideas for the company and promptly exited (leaving the company in even more shambles than it was in) taking his pay with him.

Regardless of how you feel about any company, the loss of more and more B&M stores hurts.

Re: Borders Liquidation
 

This is what it comes down to.

Re: Borders Liquidation
 

You are so right. It really creeped me out last Thursday on my California store's last day as a Borders. Sadly, they helped the demise of local bookstores like the very nice Middle Earth bookstore on the Big Island of Hawaii. Now, there isn't a general bookstore on the whole island. Don't know what is left on Oahu. Here in California there is still a local chain in my area, but I guess an era is passing. Creepy. (Sorry, probably belongs in a store forum.) Just felt so weird on Thursday.

Re: Borders Liquidation
 

I don't like the feeling either, for a few different reasons. It's definitely not a good thing.

Re: Borders Liquidation
 

It's funny that enough people know how to order online (implying they're computer literate) so that it affects B&M stores' business, yet there are still enough people uninformed enough to think 10% off list price is a good deal and get stuff sold that way.

Re: Borders Liquidation
 

Borders.com just shipped my Stargate Atlantis Blu box set so apparently they're going to stick around a bit.

Re: Borders Liquidation
 

I should have made it clear I used "you" in a general sense; it was not directed at you specifically. My point was, your comparison to B&N wasn't accurate. The one thing B&N did much better than Borders was with regard to sales. Movie fans know B&N has the Criterion sale twice a year and the B2G1 sale; they are known for that. All Borders was known for was the coupons. And coupons encourage single items sales whereas a sale encourages multiple purchases. Anyway...I don't get the hate either. There were plenty of deals at Borders (especially Borders.com) using coupons if you took the time to look. And the Rewards Plus was a heck of a deal. Oh well. I'll miss them and I wish their employees well.

Re: Borders Liquidation
 

The people buying things at or close to MSRP are the ones keeping the industries we love alive. Rather than gawk at them or call them idiots, we should appreciate them. I wish I had the numbers to prove it but unfortunately the data isn't public (as far as I can tell). Without the data, it's just another theory on the internet, I know. But I do believe firmly that we bargain-hunters barely figure in to the revenue model, even when we buy a lot. It's the mainstream customers that buy at full retail that keep the ships afloat. That's why I'm thankful for them. Hopefully, they also feel good about their purchases so it's a win-win, when it works.

As a corollary, I don't think Borders was done in by their prices. Most people just expect to pay retail, so I don't think that was the main issue. I really think the main issue is that the consumer model for media is changing. First, people stopped buying CDs. Then, they started buying fewer DVDs as Netflix gained traction and piracy became more technologically feasible. And now, they're turning to e-books to save space (and for convenience and whatever other reasons). Borders failed because they were slow out the e-reader gate. They just didn't take e-readers seriously enough early on. Do a google search - you'll see that's what a majority of industry analysts attribute their failure to. I really don't think it had much at all to do with prices.

Amazon can sell at a discount in part because they've outsourced a lot of their customer service to India. They also spent a number of years buoyed by venture capital - I don't recall off the top of my head how many years it took them to turn their first dollar's worth of profit, but that model wouldn't work in the brick and mortar world. I love Amazon and will shop there even more now that Borders is gone, but I love going in to a store and looking at books, CDs, and DVDs on shelves as well. That experience is slowly but surely going away. Barnes & Noble is unlikely to weather the next 10 years. I'm fortunate in that here in NYC there are still dozens of independent book, music, and movie stores that will remain, as they're not entirely profit-driven. But in many parts of the country, the loss of Borders will sting and will have an impact on culture.

Re: Borders Liquidation
 

I agree about the change in media preferences but disagree about people buying at MSRP keeping industry alive. The younger generations are growing up in a digital world with digital media and that has certainly changed the consumers buying preferences. But those same people also grew up on Limewire, Napster etc. where everything was free. And they don't want to pay anything for media. And they certainly won't pay MSRP.

Yes, Borders was too late in the E-reader game but the biggest mistake they made, and the biggest reason for their demise, was letting Amazon run their web business. They sent all their potential web customers to a "partner" that was really a competitor. And that competitor offered better prices and better service. By the time Borders took back their domain, all those customers were established Amazon customers. And Borders couldn't match their prices or their service and, even if they could, they wouldn't get those customers back. You don't leave someone who has provided years of good service for another company offering worse or the same deals/service.

Re: Borders Liquidation
 

As usual, you make good points, especially about the failed Amazon partnership. (Though, from a purely selfish perspective, being able to use Borders cards on Amazon was awesome :D.)

I'm going to do some research and see if I can find some data to back up my points about MSRP customers. I'm looking at bowker.com but they want $999 to access last year's data. I'll poke around, but I'm pretty sure a lot of people do buy at MSRP. I certainly don't think the younger generations are driving these industries since, as you say, they don't want to pay for anything really.

I'm curious which consumers you think are keeping bookstores alive. And what I mean by that is do you think there's a particular demographic that accounts for the highest sales/profits?

Re: Borders Liquidation
 

Most industry analysts do not think Barnes & Noble is in a much better spot, the retail market for books is dying. They just did not have the crazy debt that Borders had and will continue for a while longer before problems start showing up.

Re: Borders Liquidation
 

There aren't many stores left that sell DVDs and CDs at list price (Tower- gone, Suncoast- gone, Musicland- gone, Wherehouse- gone...)

And as I've said before, Borders priced all their DVDs under MSRP about 10 years ago, and I bought a lot from them then. When the prices went back up, I bought elsewhere.

Re: Borders Liquidation
 

I'm hoping that since Borders.com seems like it will make it until Aug that my Aug Borders Bucks will actually be usable on the website. I tend to doubt this, but it still shows that I have $5 pending for Aug.

Re: Borders Liquidation
 

I shed all my tears when my favorite independent bookstores went out of business after Borders moved into the neighborhood. Good riddance to Borders.

Ironically, I sincerely believe that this may signal the return of small, independent bookstores that are local in nature and offer more of a family, intimate vibe than any of the national chains. A small bookstore with a coffeehouse space would not have the overhead of a Borders and might actually succeed as a viable alternative in the wake of the big guns going silent. If people truly begin to miss the b&m experience, there might be a niche for bookstores on a smaller scale, just like it used to be.

Re: Borders Liquidation
 

Sigh...can this thread be moved to the "Store" forum?...I see not a single bargain in this thread and it's been droning on for days...

Re: Borders Liquidation
 

Doubt it. People shop by price. If a small bookstore did open up people would browse , see something they liked, and then buy it for less at Amazon or some place similar.

Re: Borders Liquidation
 

I can't believe what a 10% off sign along with Going OUt of Business will do for sales. I went into one of the last Borders in my area and the place was packed. People are idiots. Borders always had coupons up to 40% off and the best sellers were generally 20-25% off normally. Now people are buying the same books by the armful for 10% off because the store is going out of business. There are stores in NYC who have been going out of business for 10 years straight(complete with the liquidation signs) and they are always packed. People love to buy when they think they are getting a deal even when it is not a deal.

Re: Borders Liquidation
 

It all depends on size and overhead compared to their profit margin. My gf is a retail analyst and agrees it could happen to fill the need of those who still prefer to buy at a b&m. Hard to believe sometimes, but they still exist. A sense of community in a bookstore can still go a long way if everything clicks. People CAN be passionate about a local bookstore, which is why an indie like Vromans can thrive in the LA area while Borders goes under.

Re: Borders Liquidation
 

If this were completely true, then how can you explain the post right below yours? People fighting over things barely marked down at a going-out-of-business sale is not exactly an anomaly. It happens everywhere and with every closing. If what you say was right, then no one would be buying at these liquidation sales yet. I don't think most people have any real concept of price; they just go to Amazon or somewhere else online because it's convenient.