Miser

DDD is about to learn a hard lesson that customer service matters. I recently received an email from them saying how much they missed having me as a customer and asking me to please come back. As enticement, the email included a coupon code to get $5 off any order. So I used it to place a small order with them; my first in a few years.

The results do not inspire confidence in the least. I received my order fairly promptly, but was quite dismayed upon opening the package to find the invoice showed they had charged me the entire amount; no $5 discount in sight! Went to their website and checked my order history. It clearly shows:

Order total: $9.83
Amount charged: $14.83

Just to verify, I waited a couple days for the charge to show up on my credit card company's website. Alas, the entire $14.83 was indeed charged.

So I contact DDD customer service and tell them what happened and that they need to charge $5 back to my credit card. I also added that if this wasn't done, they would leave me no choice but to dispute the entire amount and have it removed from my bill.

It's now 10 days later and DDD must have thought I was kidding as they have done nothing to return that $5 to me. They are rapidly running out of time as there's just a few more days until the next billing cycle. I certainly have no intention of letting DDD steal $5 from me, so I fully intend to dispute the $14.83 charge just as I promised. (Credit card company won't let me dispute just part of the charge. It's either all or nothing.)

So DDD, you thought it was funny to overcharge me when shipping my order. You thought it was doubly funny to do nothing when the overcharge was pointed out to you. It would have been easy to correct the error, but instead you chose to do nothing. But, as it turns out, the joke is on you. The end result of your folly is that you will get nothing! The next time your try to entice a former customer back, you should probably wait a bit before screwing them over. Maybe someday you will learn that getting a customer is harder than keeping a customer.

Shannon Nutt

Umm...wouldn't you have seen the overcharge on the order when you first completed it on the DDD site during checkout? If it wasn't discounted then, why did you complete the order...why not call, e-mail or ask questions at THAT point? Your dispute seems a little fishy to me...and I'm not even a fan of DDD (working for a competitor and all...).

Miser

No, I didn't see the overcharge when I placed the order because it wasn't there. The $5 discount showed up exactly as I expected it to. And as stated in my first message, the discount still shows up on my order history:

Order total: $9.83
Total charged: $14.83

calhoun07

Yeah, I am sure they thought it was heee-larious to charge you five extra dollars! The customer service reps are probably still laughing their asses off, and they are laughing at YOU! BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAH!!!

Heathen

It sounds to me like a SEVERE oversight on DDD's part about the over-charge and not taking care of it, but if you do a chargeback for the full amount, it means the following:

- You are a thief. You have received the goods and not sent them back. That IS called theft by taking. Don't believe me, ask your lawyer.

- You are a jerk. Simply call them up and dispute ONLY the $5 in question.

While I agree that they should remedy the situation, you don't have to go to the extreme and put your own self in trouble just trying to prove a point...

Miser

Believe me, Heathen, I don't like doing it, but what choice have they left me? I warned them beforehand that this would happen if they didn't remedy the error and they still didn't take care of it. Part of the reason that I posted this here is that there is a DDD rep who lurks here (or at least there used to be) and I'm hoping beyond hope that he will take steps to correct this before it gets that far.

If you are referring to DDD here, I did just dispute the $5 in question. If you are referring to my credit card company, disputing just part of a charge is not allowed. They described it as follows: I dispute the $14.83 charge in writing stating the steps that I have already taken to resolve the situation with the company directly. They do a charge back. At that point, DDD can choose to do nothing or they can do another charge. If they charge the correct amount of $9.83, that's fine. I will be happy to drop it. If they again charge the $14.83, I will once again have no choice but to dispute it. If they do nothing, well I guess it's their loss. They could have easily corrected the situation before it got this far.

At this point, I'm so disgusted that I am ready to return the DVD to them--provided that they send me a prepaid return label first. But I think it would be far easier for them to just return the $5 overcharge and they have already avoided that option.

Heathen

Why can't you dispute a single part of an overall charge? That's ludicrous...!! What if you have a $3000 home repair bill, and the stiff simply overcharges by $20. There's noone reasonable that would suggest ping-ponging that kind of stuff for $20. Oh well, be that as it may... hope that everything turns out alright...

andicus

I had no problem doing that for my DVDSoon claim. I disputed only the portion of the charge that was for the unshipped DVD. That is the amount I received from my Mastercard provider.

fumanstan

That's too bad. Did the confirmation email list the correct discount and charge?

mbs

I love DDD, but I can totally see this happening. Their CS is just bad. I've only had one issue over many orders (thankfully). It was a small issue, but still a MAJOR pain in the ass to deal with (my guess is that they don't read any of the e-mails sent to them -- or have too many people reading them while they think someone else is covering that issue while no one does anything to fix it).

But I continue to shop at DDD because their prices are sweet. And 99% of the time there is no issue at all. But yeah, when things do happen to go wrong (like the OP's case), their CS is just very poor.

dablueguy

All clear.

Heathen

First of all, you are collectively pulling in all company's actions and lumping them into the allotment of "oversight". What Enron did was NOT an oversight, and as far as I am concerned, the company and people who drove it to ruin people's lives have gotten off FAR TOO easy. At any rate, we are talking about 2 different concepts and motives and INTENT here:

- First off, the order taking/billing/shipping is automated, so if it didn't take off the coupon properly, it was a programming oversight of some sorts. I don't think that the CEO stood by Mr. Hacker, laughing while he programmed the coupon function NOT to work so that his company can reap untold fortunes on it. Secondly, the CS not following up with the refund... He or she actually does not do that, as it usually is another department (billing), and I doubt that they collectively conspired to thwart the return of a $5.00 mistake. It's kinda like an oversight on your part for not mailing off that Birthday card in time. You see it on the table, but keep forgetting to take it to the mailbox.

- Now, disputing the whole amount and deliberately keeping the items is a whole other instance, and it involves intent. He INTENDED to keep the items, yet dispute the ENTIRE amount, although only a SMALL portion was really involved. That's theft - plain and simple.

Trust me, I don't give companies the kind of "benefit of the doubt" that you point out. In fact, I've had to take a couple to court because of their "oversights" and won each time, and picked up a nice amount of money for my troubles in the process.

Miser

Good news!

Just got an order confirmation email from DDD (when I hadn't placed an order). Nearly had a heart attack and immediately thought, "What the heck?! Now what?!" But upon reading the message body, I see the item ordered is a "Price Adjustment" with a cost of $5.00-. It will be a couple days before it shows up on my credit card company's website and I can confirm, but for now it looks like the problem has finally been solved.

I guess the DDD rep is either still lurking here--in which case I wish to extend my sincere thanks for his help in fixing this--or DDD customer service is SEVERELY backlogged and just now got around to my complaint.

Darq

You're going a little overboard by resorting to namecalling (thief/jerk), i believe. If he, acting in good faith, tried to take it up with the merchant, only to be lied to (which apparently did not end up happening in this case -- but that's a moot point), then I see no problem at all with disputing the full charge.

A $14.83 transaction was never agreed to by the customer. A $9.83 transaction, yes -- but not a $14.83 transaction. As far as the customer is concerned, such a transaction (for that amount) never took place -- thus the dispute on the transaction. Once the dispute goes through, it is up to the merchant to prove that the whole transaction (or even part of the transaction) is valid. If the merchant then proves that the order was supposed to be $9.83, then the problem will be fixed and I'm sure the customer would have no problem with seeing the $14.83 charge changed to a $9.83 charge.

From another point of view -- what leverage does a customer have against the merchant? "You better give me my $5 back or I'll dispute the $5!" In this case, the merchant may decide that they don't have to do anything -- either they will lose that $5 through the dispute or perhaps the customer gives up and they keep that extra $5. By threatening (or following through) on disputing the whole transaction, the customer is encouraging the merchant to follow through with their promise to investigate and fix the problem.

Granted, in this case $5 was much smaller than the $25-$50 cost that the credit card would charge the merchant -- but I still think the same concept applies whether it was a $5 overcharge or whether it was a $100 overcharge.

My two cents..

dablueguy

Sick of it.

Heathen

However, the $9.83 is PART of the $14.83, so it IS that transaction, just calculated incorrectly.
All he has to do is dispute the ACTUAL amount in question...


EXACTLY. It is painfully obvious that you don't know anything about a) the law, and b) the chargeback process. Plus, there is something called customer service, and generating goodwill... that sort of thing that helps companies keep customers...

However, it is ONLY the $5.00 that is in dispute. The rest IS valid, so there is no reason to dispute it. Disputing even $.01 will generate the same investigation as disputing the entire transaction.


As I pointed out above, that will happen NO MATTER what amount is disputed....

The point is to merely dispute what is ACTUALLY in dispute (in this case, just the $5.00). Otherwise, it is theft by taking.

Heathen

Now you are comparing Apples to Oranges... not even in the same ballfield...




Jeez... another conspiracy theorist... Some CS reps for certain companies actually can do things like this, but most do not. Even ones that say that they have actually don't unless they give you a confirmation number over the phone.



However, I don't think you are going to find any customer service reps for any company telling any other department how to do their job and when to do it. I am sure that you are the same way in whatever company you work for.



Actually, it is painfully obvious that you know nothing of the law. It is called theft by taking, and all he has to do is dispute the ACTUAL amount in question. It will bring forth the same rules the you acknowledge that they are bound to, bring forth the same procedures, and is leagally AND morally correct.

Down

Well OP, glad to see ya got your cash back. I've never had a problem w/ DDD but I do loathe possibility of having one. However, if I did, I would have taken a nearly identical path as you.

Even if that made me morally corrupt and/or ignorant of the law

Pwman

I just had an $82 adjustment made by DDD CS I hope they follow through. I wasn't that worried til I read this thread.

Phil L.

Well Miser glad to hear you got your charge adjusted and the money refunded. But look at it this way, if DDD had not ever credited your account... for $5 they would have been out of your life forever. A bargain I feel.

dablueguy

Actually, it is painfully obvious that you know nothing about anything. If we enter into a contract that states if I do something wrong then I have to pay you $1 million dollars and I do something wrong....are you breaking the law by making me pay it?? IF the merchant enters into an agreement to accept credit cards and that agreement states that they could be liable for the whole amount via chargeback if they don't satisfy the customer and they don't satisfy the customer.......then the credit card company can legally uphold the terms of the contract. My dad use to have his own company and I read the terms that the credit card companies gave him. That was in it. Granted, this was 15 years ago but I doubt much has changed since then.

Of course, if you have some law that you would like me to see, please post it, or a link to it.........

Heathen

The law that I am referring to is the FEDERAL Fair Credit Billing Act.

A link available is from the FTC (Federal Trade Commission) that is the group responsible for enforcing the law:

http://www.ftc.gov/bcp/conline/pubs/credit/fcb.htm

Pay particular attention to the text copied from that very page:

"What happens while my bill is in dispute?

You may withhold payment on the disputed amount (and related charges), during the investigation. You must pay any part of the bill not in question, including finance charges on the undisputed amount."

Now, for everyone that threatens to charge back an entire purchase because of some small mathematical error, you are opening yourself up for criminal charges (not that it generally happens on amounts this small, but 2 things to think about: a) for internet orders, it is interstate commerce, so it would be a Federal offense, and b) you don't know when your potential case will come across some second-year assistant with some bug up his ass and something to prove....don't think something like this can happen...? Just ask the guy on Atlanta's MARTA rail station for giving someone a token...). It is called "Theft By Taking". If there is a matematical error, just dispute the AMOUNT in question, not the entire bill...

I hope that this FINALLY puts this to rest.

ShallowHal

I seriously doubt any DDD employee lurks anywhere. They might pop in for 20 seconds for a quick thank you, but it would be time consuming to read entire threads about themselves. I also doubt that any employee of DDD read the threads posted during the 20% off sale. Who has the time to read all that?

dablueguy

Well...it doesn't. Here's why:

Let's say I have a brand new credit card with a $0 balance. I make a charge with DDD of $20. I buy gas the next day for $50 and then buy some food later that month for $100. Now I have the problem that the OP had. I dispute the DDD purchase. According to the FCBA, I can withhold payment on the $20 during the investigation. However I must make full or minimum payment on the remaining $150 that I charged during that billing cycle. Notice that the remaining $150 is the "part of the bill not in question,...the undisputed amount." Since the DDD purchase is the one in question, I don't pay for that until the credit card issuer has decided what will happen. Also notice....the issuer has complete control to make the final decision. Not the federal government. Not DDD. Not the OP. Why? Because the merchant (DDD) and the issuer (VISA, Mastercard, etc) have entered into an agreement with those stipulations. Much like they do with those of us who use their cards.

Ever heard of "arbitration"?

When you use their card you agree to be bound by their rules and if you disagree with their decision you agree to arbitration rather than suing in a court of law. Guess who picks the arbitrator? You do....from a list that they give you.

Ever receive something in the mail that you didn't order? You can keep it and not pay for it. Would you call that theft by taking? The USPS doesn't. Why not? You know it's there, you didn't order it and you're keeping it.





EDIT: I should add that I do use DDD with no problems (usually) and I'm sure that this was an isolated event that has obviously been corrected. However, you could plug any merchants name into this and the same rules would apply.

Heathen

What you are failing to see is that in the case of a matematical error, the portion of your bill IS accurate. In the case of this thread, it is $5. So, for your $20 charge, you fully acknowledge that $15 of that $20 is valid, so that part of the bill IS ACCURATE, so for you to withhold payment on something you agree to is theft, period. I recently had work done on my home by an contractor service for around $500. I wanted to pay with a credit card. When time came to pay, I was told that there would be a $10 serivce charge for using a credit card. There is no federal law on credit card surcharges (I know that there is in California, but I don't know about elsewhere...), but it IS in every credit card agreement that this was forbidden. I then instructed/reminded the young lady that, but she said that she didn't care. I then indicated that if she were to charge me such, that I would report her to the credit card company and dispute THE AMOUNT IN QUESTION. She again indicated that she didn't care. There was a specific notation on the reciept for credit card surcharge. Now when it came time to dispute, I had NO RIGHT WHATSOVER to dispute the entire amount $500+ as I agreed to that amount, they completed the work, and I was satisfied with it. Immediately after the charge posted (about 24 hours later), I called Discover and dispute JUST THE AMOUNT THAT NEEDED TO BE DISPUTED. You keep saying that it opens up a whole investigation and blah, blah, blah... but as I pointed out, that SAME investigation happens for a dispute of $.01 or $20,000, so for simple matematical errors, you AGREED TO THE PORTION THAT IS MATHEMATICALLY CORRECT.

Also, in the case of the USPS delivering something to you that you didn't order... A) I already know that, and B) you are comparing Apples to Oranges again...