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Paypal concern...any help?

Old 03-22-04, 07:08 PM
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Paypal concern...any help?

is there any way to verify that a paypal payment I recvd was not paid for with a stolen credit card or something? Its not an amount I want to get an email about 3 months down the road and a chargeback. Any recommendations?
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Old 03-22-04, 07:24 PM
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There is no way that I know of to verify that kind of information at paypal. Is there some reason to suspect the person who sent the payment is not legit?
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Old 03-23-04, 11:37 AM
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They (all companies, I think) allow up to SIX months to reverse charges on a credit card.

And if he wants to do a chargeback, he can as he pleases. PayPal never takes responsibility for any transactions. It doesn't matter if you ship to a confirmed address and get a sigunature. All of that stuff is a joke when it comes down to it.

How much was it for? Any reason to suspect he'll be doing a chargeback?

Unfortunately, I ran into an $1815 chargeback a few months back. And the worst part is that it's apparently not even a crime to do a credit card chargeback, AND keep the goods. The guy has an established business and everything. Even though the terms (some didn't power on, some missing HD's, etc.) were explicitly explained over the phone, he said he was unhappy with his order (51 older laptops). He just called his credit card company, and said "this charge is unauthorized", and we had to give him back everything. I called, and he said that we were not allowed to pickup the laptops. This is obvious fraud. But PayPal said that they only thing we can really do is report it to the FBICC, which still hasn't acted upon it after 3 months.

Any lawyers want to help me out on that one? In case it matters, the business (ET Company) is located in MA.
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Old 03-23-04, 12:19 PM
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this is the kind of crap I'm talking about. thanks for the feedback guys, next time I'll ask for a check for such a large payment (right around yours Troy)
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Old 03-24-04, 01:05 AM
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I had an unhappy experience with Paypal recently. Bought something on ebay for ~ $5.25, paid with Paypal. 29 days later I filed a complaint (item wasn't received), they did an investigtion and said that yes, the seller was at fault, but they couldn't recover any funds (thus I was SOL).

I've just written that one off. The seller, who had a feedback of 7,000 or so & had joined in 1998, was no longer a registered user.
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Old 03-24-04, 10:17 AM
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I have had good luck with Ebay and Paypal but these are the some of the reasons I would not buy or sell things with a large dollar amount through Paypal. Keeping Paypal out of the loop with large ticket items may be the best method.
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Old 03-24-04, 10:44 AM
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Originally posted by Heat
The seller, who had a feedback of 7,000 or so & had joined in 1998, was no longer a registered user.
seems like a growing trend for sellers is to get a decent rep and then screw many and open up a new account and start gaining trust again.
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Old 03-26-04, 09:07 AM
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I've had nothing but good luck with PAYPAL in many hundreds of transactions, buying and selling. But some people have and that has me concerned enough that I may discontinue using it. But it's so damned convenient!

I recently disputed a charge on my credit card for the first time in my life. It was one of those mispriced dvd things that occasionally are reported here. I took advantage of the misprice, but before the item was shipped, the e-tailer e-mailed saying, sorry, the item was mispriced; we will hold the order until you either cancel it or agree to the correct price. Ok, win some, lose some. I just forget about it and did nothing. Then the item was shipped and I was charged at the original misprice. The e-tailer asked that I ship the item back at their expense, but I refused saying that I was not responsible for errors in pricing or lapses in their procedures, and that if they charged me the higher price I would dispute the charge. They did, and I disputed it.

I suppose each credit card company has its own procedures when a charge is disputed. I've read several posts where it seems to be easy to reverse a charge; my CC company seems to be more thorough than most. The CC service rep I called reversed the charge, and when the reversal appeared on my next statement, I thought that was that. But that wasn't that. I received a letter from the CC company stating that they were going to ask the e-tailer for their side of the dispute. Ok, I thought, that's fair and proper. Next, I receive another lettter from the CC company containing a summary of my e-mails between me the e-tailer, and a paper for me to sign and return (which I did) that stated that I did not authorize the disputed charge. Again, I thought that was that, but again it wasn't. I was called by a CC higher up who was confused by the whole thing and asked me to fax a detailed account of the whole transaction, which I did, and that's where it sits now. I still don't know if I've successfully disputed the charge or not.

But, anyway, if each CC company went through a procedure such as I described mine doing, before allowing a disputed charged to stick, I believe there would be many fewer PAYPAL horror stories. But, maybe they do - I only have this one experience.
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Old 03-27-04, 06:31 PM
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Originally posted by heavywear
this is the kind of crap I'm talking about. thanks for the feedback guys, next time I'll ask for a check for such a large payment (right around yours Troy)
It's unrealistic to refuse to accept Paypal on large purchases and require that people send a check or money order. While doing that will certainly offer more protection as a seller, it offers no protection as a buyer.

Many people use Paypal on large purchases simply so they have recourse with Paypal or their CC company. I really doubt that most buyers would be thrilled to send a check or MO for a substantial purchase.

Would anyone here send a money order or check if the item was more than $100-$200? You can bet if I'm buying a high-priced item, I will use a CC.

The bottom line is HONESTY. If a buyer or seller is unethical and
determined to screw you, they can usually find a way to do it.
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Old 03-27-04, 08:50 PM
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If you're talking about high $$$ transactions, sellers don't want to accept CC because of fraud and chargebacks. Buyer's don't want to do cash, check, or money order, because there are no protections for them. It sounds like the best way to go is escrow, which protects both parties.
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Old 03-27-04, 10:47 PM
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Originally posted by troystiffler
They (all companies, I think) allow up to SIX months to reverse charges on a credit card.

And if he wants to do a chargeback, he can as he pleases. PayPal never takes responsibility for any transactions. It doesn't matter if you ship to a confirmed address and get a sigunature. All of that stuff is a joke when it comes down to it.

How much was it for? Any reason to suspect he'll be doing a chargeback?

Unfortunately, I ran into an $1815 chargeback a few months back. And the worst part is that it's apparently not even a crime to do a credit card chargeback, AND keep the goods. The guy has an established business and everything. Even though the terms (some didn't power on, some missing HD's, etc.) were explicitly explained over the phone, he said he was unhappy with his order (51 older laptops). He just called his credit card company, and said "this charge is unauthorized", and we had to give him back everything. I called, and he said that we were not allowed to pickup the laptops. This is obvious fraud. But PayPal said that they only thing we can really do is report it to the FBICC, which still hasn't acted upon it after 3 months.

Any lawyers want to help me out on that one? In case it matters, the business (ET Company) is located in MA.
Why didn't you file criminal charges for theft? This isn't really Paypal's fault either since it could have happened if you had a merchant account.

The big downside with paypal is that they don't defend the seller in a dispute like I hear will happen with a merchant account.
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Old 03-28-04, 12:38 PM
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I ran into an $1815 chargeback a few months back
I don't know if it applies to internet purchases, but you might try your homeowners or renters insurance policy and see if it has a "theft by swindle" clause. A friend accepted a $12,000 cashiers check for his vehicle, which later bounced. His homeowners policy covered the loss.
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Old 03-28-04, 01:14 PM
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Getting off topic here myself but how can a cashiers check bounce?
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Old 03-28-04, 02:38 PM
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Originally posted by heavywear
Getting off topic here myself but how can a cashiers check bounce?
It was probably printed on their home PC.
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Old 03-28-04, 04:27 PM
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Fake cashier's checks are actually fairly common now, same with money orders. I've been specifying "USPS money orders only", one advantage there is that if the amount is low enough I can just cash them in at the post office (if they have the money to cover it they'll cash it).

I've been wondering about not accepting credit cards, I could drop my Paypal account back to a personnal account, not pay the $0.30 per transaction fee for all transactions, and wouldn't have to worry about stolen credit cards then.
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Old 03-29-04, 01:20 AM
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Originally posted by al_bundy
It was probably printed on their home PC.
Don't cashier checks or money orders have that security feature where you can see an identification at a angle when you look at the check? Or are the fakes able to do that as well?
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Old 03-29-04, 05:07 AM
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Originally posted by mapson
Don't cashier checks or money orders have that security feature where you can see an identification at a angle when you look at the check? Or are the fakes able to do that as well?
Sometimes blank cashier's check or money orders are stolen by employees or whomever. They then print them and pass them off, but when your bank tries to cash them, they bounce because the issuing bank has invalidated the stolen check numbers. So, you get stuck with the bad check.
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Old 03-29-04, 12:25 PM
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I don't know about the security features, but there have been a lot of cases of people taking fake cashier's checks, especially as payment for autos.

If you sell an expensive item on ebay and take a cashier's check then you should wait a little while for it to clear. And if possible go to the bank that it is drawn on and cash it there.
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Old 04-03-04, 07:04 PM
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Originally posted by diesteldorf
It's unrealistic to refuse to accept Paypal on large purchases and require that people send a check or money order. While doing that will certainly offer more protection as a seller, it offers no protection as a buyer.

Many people use Paypal on large purchases simply so they have recourse with Paypal or their CC company. I really doubt that most buyers would be thrilled to send a check or MO for a substantial purchase.

Would anyone here send a money order or check if the item was more than $100-$200? You can bet if I'm buying a high-priced item, I will use a CC.

The bottom line is HONESTY. If a buyer or seller is unethical and
determined to screw you, they can usually find a way to do it.
Besides, the buyer could just use a credit card cheque (charges the amount on to their credit card, but can be used like a regular cheque), and you'd be in the same situation (potentially).
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Old 04-03-04, 08:48 PM
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Originally posted by shimmoril
Besides, the buyer could just use a credit card cheque (charges the amount on to their credit card, but can be used like a regular cheque), and you'd be in the same situation (potentially).
Aren't those treated as cash advances?
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