eBay and USPS "Media Mail" question...
07-19-03, 04:24 PM
#1
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Thread Starter
eBay and USPS "Media Mail" question...
Should I report this "business" to the USPS? Here's the story:
I purchased a floppy drive (brand new) from a "business" on eBay. I won the auction for $5, and the shipping was $9.
I received the item about 8 days later via Media Mail.
When opened, the drive was DOA and so the seller said to ship it back at my own expense and he would replace it.
So I packaged it up and took it to the PO. When inquiring about how much it would be to ship it back to CA from TX, he said $4.55 for First Class and $5.05 for Priority. So I asked what Media Mail would be and he told me $1.84; but then he asked me what was in it... and I told him a floppy drive for a computer.
He told me that that was illegal, and that Media Mail was reserved only for paper or pre-recorded materials like VHS tapes, CDs and DVDs.
So I sent it back to him via Priority (w/ Confirmation).
Today, another 10 days later, I recieved the replacement... still shipped via Media Mail.
I haven't opened it yet. I could take it to the PO and have them open it and see the contents and expose the "business"... but I'm still deciding.
I wish that eBay would force the sellers to list how the item would be shipped, so that we aren't ripped off on absurd shipping prices.
All of the prices for shipping for this "business" are exaggerated... can I report it to eBay?
I purchased a floppy drive (brand new) from a "business" on eBay. I won the auction for $5, and the shipping was $9.
I received the item about 8 days later via Media Mail.
When opened, the drive was DOA and so the seller said to ship it back at my own expense and he would replace it.
So I packaged it up and took it to the PO. When inquiring about how much it would be to ship it back to CA from TX, he said $4.55 for First Class and $5.05 for Priority. So I asked what Media Mail would be and he told me $1.84; but then he asked me what was in it... and I told him a floppy drive for a computer.
He told me that that was illegal, and that Media Mail was reserved only for paper or pre-recorded materials like VHS tapes, CDs and DVDs.
So I sent it back to him via Priority (w/ Confirmation).
Today, another 10 days later, I recieved the replacement... still shipped via Media Mail.
I haven't opened it yet. I could take it to the PO and have them open it and see the contents and expose the "business"... but I'm still deciding.
I wish that eBay would force the sellers to list how the item would be shipped, so that we aren't ripped off on absurd shipping prices.
All of the prices for shipping for this "business" are exaggerated... can I report it to eBay?
07-19-03, 04:39 PM
#2
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Maybe it was a 6 dollar envelope?
Seriously though I think you're screwed either way. Your 5 dollar drive ended up costing you close to 20 dollars. As soon as you saw "9 dollars shipping" you should've looked elsewhere.
Shipping gouging should be a crime but eBay could care less.
You have my condolences.
Seriously though I think you're screwed either way. Your 5 dollar drive ended up costing you close to 20 dollars. As soon as you saw "9 dollars shipping" you should've looked elsewhere.
Shipping gouging should be a crime but eBay could care less.
You have my condolences.
07-19-03, 04:40 PM
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People can ask whatever they want for shipping on ebay and they really don't care. However, shipping an item at the media rate that is clearly not media is pretty shady. I don't see anything wrong with reporting it to USPS.
07-19-03, 06:30 PM
#4
DVD Talk Hero
Get over it people... If you don't like what people charge for shipping, then don't bid. Did the guy state $9 shipping in the auction? If not, I'd have a problem. But if he did mention it, I don't think there should be any problem.
I know an eBay powerseller who sells used PII PC's for $6 "Buy It Now", plus $80 S&H! So you don't go bidding on his auctions, expecting to get a PII PC for $30, shipping included. It just doesn't work like that.
Also, you have to remember that the S&H price is NOT the postage! Many *large* sellers hire employees to take care of their shipping. Then, they have to deal with the cost of boxes, peanuts, tape, and other supplies. It's one thing if you're selling off you DVD's or CD's, but it's a whole other deal if you're selling 50-70 items that weigh 10lbs and up. There are a lot of 'asset dealers' on eBay. eBay is not composed of a bunch of people selling off their personal junk; like a garage sale.
Having to pay for return shipping, on a BROKEN item, would DEFINATLY be a problem with me, though. That's a really crappy deal that the seller couldn't stand behind his product! Did he mention anywhere that the item was sold as-is? If he did, then I think you got off easy. If he didn't, I think that you got ripped.
As for telling the PO about the media mail scheme, I say don't do it. If you don't like his methods, complain about it constantly to him; don't go sobbing to the PO about it. In the end, I doubt that the case would even make it to the seller.
Also, if he is a big seller, then he's just trying to do something with the auction. If he charged $2 shipping (like lots of you out there would like), and sold the drive for $5, he wouldn't really be making ANYTHING. Because, that would come out to $7. Minus ~$.75 in fees. Minus $1.83 for postage. Minus ~$.50 in PayPal fees. Minus another $.50 for a bubble mailer. That leave him with, what, like $3.58. That's really, really bad if he's trying to run a business. And that's what it is...just business. The guy could be relying on eBay to support a full business.
So, I'm NOT OPPOSED to him charging such high shipping. But I definatly would not do that myself. On a standard floppy drive, I'd probably charge $5.95, and ship it Priority Mail, if you were wondering.
I know an eBay powerseller who sells used PII PC's for $6 "Buy It Now", plus $80 S&H! So you don't go bidding on his auctions, expecting to get a PII PC for $30, shipping included. It just doesn't work like that.
Also, you have to remember that the S&H price is NOT the postage! Many *large* sellers hire employees to take care of their shipping. Then, they have to deal with the cost of boxes, peanuts, tape, and other supplies. It's one thing if you're selling off you DVD's or CD's, but it's a whole other deal if you're selling 50-70 items that weigh 10lbs and up. There are a lot of 'asset dealers' on eBay. eBay is not composed of a bunch of people selling off their personal junk; like a garage sale.
Having to pay for return shipping, on a BROKEN item, would DEFINATLY be a problem with me, though. That's a really crappy deal that the seller couldn't stand behind his product! Did he mention anywhere that the item was sold as-is? If he did, then I think you got off easy. If he didn't, I think that you got ripped.
As for telling the PO about the media mail scheme, I say don't do it. If you don't like his methods, complain about it constantly to him; don't go sobbing to the PO about it. In the end, I doubt that the case would even make it to the seller.
Also, if he is a big seller, then he's just trying to do something with the auction. If he charged $2 shipping (like lots of you out there would like), and sold the drive for $5, he wouldn't really be making ANYTHING. Because, that would come out to $7. Minus ~$.75 in fees. Minus $1.83 for postage. Minus ~$.50 in PayPal fees. Minus another $.50 for a bubble mailer. That leave him with, what, like $3.58. That's really, really bad if he's trying to run a business. And that's what it is...just business. The guy could be relying on eBay to support a full business.
So, I'm NOT OPPOSED to him charging such high shipping. But I definatly would not do that myself. On a standard floppy drive, I'd probably charge $5.95, and ship it Priority Mail, if you were wondering.
07-19-03, 06:33 PM
#5
DVD Talk Hero
One other point... I think that you're finding fault wit him at the wrong place. You should be more irritated with him making you pay for return-shipping. That's really unprofessional of him.
07-19-03, 08:10 PM
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I've seen a few auctions for five or six Star Trek: TNG box sets where the seller had a $1 "Buy It Now" price - and $499 shipping! It was a clever way to avoid paying the Ebay fees had it gone for a more normal $500.
07-19-03, 08:39 PM
#7
DVD Talk Hero
Ebay should care because sellers who offer items cheap and then gouge on shipping are ripping Ebay off by avoiding the sellering fees.
07-19-03, 08:59 PM
#9
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Thread Starter
I am leaving him negative feedback for abusing Media Mail and forcing me to pay return shipping.
Whether or not I report it to the USPS remains to be seen.
By the way it was a brand-new drive (or so the description said), that was guaranteed against DOA.
The reason I took that drive is because it was a name brand, and paying $5/$9 is the same as paying $9/$5 for a no-name one. Next time I'll be careful.
Unfair S&H; drive sent Media Mail (a no-no); DOA, I had to pay return post of $5
By the way it was a brand-new drive (or so the description said), that was guaranteed against DOA.
The reason I took that drive is because it was a name brand, and paying $5/$9 is the same as paying $9/$5 for a no-name one. Next time I'll be careful.
Last edited by Goldberg74; 07-19-03 at 09:07 PM.
07-20-03, 05:11 AM
#10
DVD Talk Legend
First off, a person can charge what they want on ebay no matter what. Me, I have a set amount. If people want to pay the shipping that is listed, then fine. If they don't (hasn't happened yet) then I would leave a negative.
You never answered the question if the shipping was listed when you made your bid. Secondly, if an item is damaged, was insurance an option for you? If so, that would be considered your fault on not getting insurance. Do you possibly have a link to this closed auction? I am sure others would be interested in viewing this.
A previous post regarding fees is right on the money. Ebay fees are a bitch no doubt! Not including the paypal, and then shipping. You would think, 8 out of 10 times the person bidding on an item for $5.00 and sees a shipping price of 5.00 knows this person is doing this for one of a couple reasons. The first was already talked about, the paypal & ebay fees. The other could be:
The "item" cost them $10.00 but they wouldn't be able to sell it for that so charge half and the rest shipping to make up for it.
As far as "illegally" shipping via media mail? I think not. It is a judgment call by the post office clerk to decide what is inside and if they should be shipping it via media mail. Believe me, I have shipped a DVD player with 1 dvd inside and told the clerk it was media mail. What is inside? I said DVDS. I never said player or anything. Just DVDS. Was shipped no problem. Another time I said a dvd player..sorry..so I sent Priority. It all depends on the clerk.
Sending back at your expense. So what? I have done it...you aren't the first. I have paid 22 dollars for an item and was charged 8 dollars shipping. How was it sent? Media mail. Was I disappointed? You bet. I figured, $8 for shipping I ought to get Priority..but then I figured after doing some research, this item costs such and such new..they are just trying to make some profit so I was cool with it. The item had damage, so I sent it back via media mail...and received the item back from them via media mail. Was also told that I could get anything from them at 40% off next time I made a purchase. All was good. Damaged item fixed. Problem solved. I left good feedback because they provided the service they promised. That simple.
One other question... did he leave you positive feedback? If so, leaving a negative is really crappy. I would at least go with a neutral if you are disappointed with the shipping. Negative would be if he didn't even provide you with the item at all.
Abusing media mail? That is just plains sad of you. Unfair S&H? Again..common sense should tell you...if no shipping is listed, email and ask what it would be. If it is listed, you pay what it is.
Maybe you should stick with Half.com where the fees for shipping are set and your complaining would be "possibly" nil.
You never answered the question if the shipping was listed when you made your bid. Secondly, if an item is damaged, was insurance an option for you? If so, that would be considered your fault on not getting insurance. Do you possibly have a link to this closed auction? I am sure others would be interested in viewing this.
A previous post regarding fees is right on the money. Ebay fees are a bitch no doubt! Not including the paypal, and then shipping. You would think, 8 out of 10 times the person bidding on an item for $5.00 and sees a shipping price of 5.00 knows this person is doing this for one of a couple reasons. The first was already talked about, the paypal & ebay fees. The other could be:
The "item" cost them $10.00 but they wouldn't be able to sell it for that so charge half and the rest shipping to make up for it.
As far as "illegally" shipping via media mail? I think not. It is a judgment call by the post office clerk to decide what is inside and if they should be shipping it via media mail. Believe me, I have shipped a DVD player with 1 dvd inside and told the clerk it was media mail. What is inside? I said DVDS. I never said player or anything. Just DVDS. Was shipped no problem. Another time I said a dvd player..sorry..so I sent Priority. It all depends on the clerk.
Sending back at your expense. So what? I have done it...you aren't the first. I have paid 22 dollars for an item and was charged 8 dollars shipping. How was it sent? Media mail. Was I disappointed? You bet. I figured, $8 for shipping I ought to get Priority..but then I figured after doing some research, this item costs such and such new..they are just trying to make some profit so I was cool with it. The item had damage, so I sent it back via media mail...and received the item back from them via media mail. Was also told that I could get anything from them at 40% off next time I made a purchase. All was good. Damaged item fixed. Problem solved. I left good feedback because they provided the service they promised. That simple.
One other question... did he leave you positive feedback? If so, leaving a negative is really crappy. I would at least go with a neutral if you are disappointed with the shipping. Negative would be if he didn't even provide you with the item at all.
Abusing media mail? That is just plains sad of you. Unfair S&H? Again..common sense should tell you...if no shipping is listed, email and ask what it would be. If it is listed, you pay what it is.
Maybe you should stick with Half.com where the fees for shipping are set and your complaining would be "possibly" nil.
Last edited by Bill Geiger; 07-20-03 at 05:18 AM.
07-20-03, 10:01 AM
#11
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Thread Starter
I don't feel sorry in the least for leaving a negative feedback... and yes there was insurance as an option... but it would have almost doubled the bid price.
The seller has a responsibility to put on the page exactally how he should ship the package.
I have talked to a couple serious eBayers and they all agreed with my decision.
I'm not really picky, but they should really spell things out for.
If it were an on-line store (which I consider some eBay folks as) as a business then providing the type of shipping is a must. Would you buy from Amazon if they put "what ever we feel like at the moment" as the shipping option? I don't think so.
Bill, as for you popping the DVD into the player and sending it Media Mail, that's a little creative, but I'm glad you fessed up to the "player only" package.
Did they leave positive feedback for me... yup. within days. But when I pay $9 for shipping and get it two weeks later... and then another two weeks for the replacement... that's where I draw the line.
Edit... here's their response to my negative feedback:
I was never sent a return label. Is there a way I leave a comment on their comment to my feedback?
The seller has a responsibility to put on the page exactally how he should ship the package.
I have talked to a couple serious eBayers and they all agreed with my decision.
I'm not really picky, but they should really spell things out for.
If it were an on-line store (which I consider some eBay folks as) as a business then providing the type of shipping is a must. Would you buy from Amazon if they put "what ever we feel like at the moment" as the shipping option? I don't think so.
Bill, as for you popping the DVD into the player and sending it Media Mail, that's a little creative, but I'm glad you fessed up to the "player only" package.
Did they leave positive feedback for me... yup. within days. But when I pay $9 for shipping and get it two weeks later... and then another two weeks for the replacement... that's where I draw the line.
Edit... here's their response to my negative feedback:
gets your facts straight. ANY doa items WE SEND YOU A RETURN LABEL.
Last edited by Goldberg74; 07-20-03 at 10:13 AM.
07-20-03, 10:40 AM
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It seems that the people who want to say that it is ok to ship non-media items media-mail are the ones who would do it themselves. I do agree on the fees, though. In that, if it is expressly stated in the auction, then by bidding, you entered into a purchase contract. If the item arrived not as described, then they failed to honor their side of the contract... plain and simple. It is perfectly reasonable for a seller to ask what they believe is appropriate for Shipping (& Handling) since their are other costs involved besides just the postage (think packaging, etc.), not to mention the seller's time to package and send it. I am really amazed though at how many DVDtalkers we have defending this unknown ebay seller (in what appears an attempt at justifying their own ebay practices). I for one think that it is downright shady to ship non-media items by media mail. Priority is only like $3.50 and by lying (since we all know the post office asks what it is every time we request media-mail and it doesn't depend on the clerk... it depends on whether you lie to the clerk or not), the guy might have saved as much as $2.00. The extra $2.00 is just a cost of doing business on the up and up and usually results in happier customers. You know, I don't have fifty bajillion ebay transactions under my belt, but I have been a member there for nearly 5 years and I know legit from shady any day of the week. I stand by my original comment that there is absolutely no reason you should feel bad about reporting this guy to USPS for the shipping because it is downright scummy and though I suspect it is looked upon as minor and might even be ignored if reported, I do believe it is a federal crime.
(edited to correct grammatical error)
(edited to correct grammatical error)
Last edited by ScottyWH; 07-20-03 at 11:01 AM.
07-20-03, 10:48 AM
#13
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Thread Starter
ScottyWH -- Thanks. I'm going to the PO tomorrow with the package in tow.
Bill -- From the auction page:
His response to my feedback is a flat out lie.
Bill -- From the auction page:
* Shipping & Handling is $8.99 USD
*_ Insurance $3.50USD (Optional)
* Shipping to Alaska & Hawaii_$10.99
*_ insurance add $4.25USD. (optional)
* Shipping charges are non-refundable.
Warranty Period - 30 Day Replacement
Condition - New
RMA Returns - 5-10 Day Processing
Defective Products - Buyer Pays Shipping
Returns must be received within 10 days after the RMA Number has been issued. NOTE: 20% restocking fee applies for any refund request. Shipping/Handling is non-refundable.
All Question and doubts must be handle prior bidding, after you place your bid, it is understood that you have agreed to be bounded by our terms.
Winner must pay within 5 Days after auction ended.
After auction ended, Please send in your payment by the accepted payment method stated above.
Winner must agree to pay shipping! Thank you for being a serious Bidder.
Winner please remember "Your bid is a contract." & "Your bid is a promise."
*_ Insurance $3.50USD (Optional)
* Shipping to Alaska & Hawaii_$10.99
*_ insurance add $4.25USD. (optional)
* Shipping charges are non-refundable.
Warranty Period - 30 Day Replacement
Condition - New
RMA Returns - 5-10 Day Processing
Defective Products - Buyer Pays Shipping
Returns must be received within 10 days after the RMA Number has been issued. NOTE: 20% restocking fee applies for any refund request. Shipping/Handling is non-refundable.
All Question and doubts must be handle prior bidding, after you place your bid, it is understood that you have agreed to be bounded by our terms.
Winner must pay within 5 Days after auction ended.
After auction ended, Please send in your payment by the accepted payment method stated above.
Winner must agree to pay shipping! Thank you for being a serious Bidder.
Winner please remember "Your bid is a contract." & "Your bid is a promise."
07-20-03, 12:56 PM
#14
DVD Talk Hall of Fame
I think it's also illegal to ship non-media mail items via media mail. The definition of media mail is pretty liberal as it is, and is quite cheap, but it is a specific definition of what can and can't be shipped via mm. Much like using the free Priority Mail boxes/supplies the USPS provides, to ship non-Priority Mail [yes it's illegal.]
People can charge virtually anything for 'shipping and handling', where the trouble comes in is how they phrase it. If they say 'actual shipping,' what I'm charged better be exactly what is on the postmark. It is, however, against Ebay policy to have "listings with low prices but unreasonably high shipping or handling costs. " http://pages.ebay.com/help/policies/...umventing.html
which is what a few of these auctions are trying to do [6$ PC, 80$ shipping? I think that might qualify as circumventing.] They get away with it because no one reports them, ebay can't scrutinize every auction with a fine tooth comb. Unreasonable certainly could be debated; I'd say a DVD auction with 10.00 s/h is quite unreasonable, but I'd pay 5 [if it was shipped safely 1st class or, preferably, priority.]
And I wholeheartedly disagree with 'ebay fees are a bitch.' Insertion fees range from .30 to 3.30; final value fees are no more than 5.25%. You get worldwide coverage on one of the highest trafficked sites on the internet for 7 days, you get to post a picture of the item and links to other pics for free. If you posted an item that started at 9.99 and closed at 100$, you'd pay about 3.60 in fees [if I did the math right]. For comparison, the last time I took a three line ad out in the paper, it was just under ten bucks. Ebay is a bargain when you compare cost and value, and I think there is still a feeling of 'The net must be free!' that we are seeing with many people complaining. That doesn't even mention the savings when you run your business out of your home instead of a having to rent storefront, deal with taxes/licenses, HR, OSHA, local advertising, etc.
Besides, I note a discrepancy: it's okay for some scumbag seller to charge 20$ shipping and 'handling' because 'he's running a business', but it's not ok for Ebay to charge their 'ridiculous' fees? I'm sorry, I though they were a business also, one which potentially impacts a whole lot more people than EbayPowerSeller.
If his auction described the item accurately and in relatively easy-to-understand terms, and clearly stated the shipping costs and policies, I'd say he's fine on that end. If he had ridiculous shipping costs, then I'd say report him to ebay. If he is shipping non-media mail stuff via media mail, I'd say report him to the USPS. He may not have ripped you off, but he is stealing from the USPS. Which eventually will increase all our postage rates again.
If he's lying in feedback, that's wrong also--I'm not sure what to do about that; I don't know how far the 'reply to feedback' will let you go.
People can charge virtually anything for 'shipping and handling', where the trouble comes in is how they phrase it. If they say 'actual shipping,' what I'm charged better be exactly what is on the postmark. It is, however, against Ebay policy to have "listings with low prices but unreasonably high shipping or handling costs. " http://pages.ebay.com/help/policies/...umventing.html
which is what a few of these auctions are trying to do [6$ PC, 80$ shipping? I think that might qualify as circumventing.] They get away with it because no one reports them, ebay can't scrutinize every auction with a fine tooth comb. Unreasonable certainly could be debated; I'd say a DVD auction with 10.00 s/h is quite unreasonable, but I'd pay 5 [if it was shipped safely 1st class or, preferably, priority.]
And I wholeheartedly disagree with 'ebay fees are a bitch.' Insertion fees range from .30 to 3.30; final value fees are no more than 5.25%. You get worldwide coverage on one of the highest trafficked sites on the internet for 7 days, you get to post a picture of the item and links to other pics for free. If you posted an item that started at 9.99 and closed at 100$, you'd pay about 3.60 in fees [if I did the math right]. For comparison, the last time I took a three line ad out in the paper, it was just under ten bucks. Ebay is a bargain when you compare cost and value, and I think there is still a feeling of 'The net must be free!' that we are seeing with many people complaining. That doesn't even mention the savings when you run your business out of your home instead of a having to rent storefront, deal with taxes/licenses, HR, OSHA, local advertising, etc.
Besides, I note a discrepancy: it's okay for some scumbag seller to charge 20$ shipping and 'handling' because 'he's running a business', but it's not ok for Ebay to charge their 'ridiculous' fees? I'm sorry, I though they were a business also, one which potentially impacts a whole lot more people than EbayPowerSeller.
If his auction described the item accurately and in relatively easy-to-understand terms, and clearly stated the shipping costs and policies, I'd say he's fine on that end. If he had ridiculous shipping costs, then I'd say report him to ebay. If he is shipping non-media mail stuff via media mail, I'd say report him to the USPS. He may not have ripped you off, but he is stealing from the USPS. Which eventually will increase all our postage rates again.
If he's lying in feedback, that's wrong also--I'm not sure what to do about that; I don't know how far the 'reply to feedback' will let you go.
07-20-03, 01:02 PM
#15
I was under the impression that all items had to be Media
in order to ship Media Mail. Otherwise, I could just
buy a bunch of cheap CDRs. Burn some junk to them (or not).
Then, when I got ready to ship my 10 lb antique cedar chest, I could just put the CDRs inside and send it Media Mail.
Could I actually do this or something like it? What would the PO say?
in order to ship Media Mail. Otherwise, I could just
buy a bunch of cheap CDRs. Burn some junk to them (or not).
Then, when I got ready to ship my 10 lb antique cedar chest, I could just put the CDRs inside and send it Media Mail.
Could I actually do this or something like it? What would the PO say?
Last edited by diesteldorf; 07-20-03 at 01:05 PM.
07-20-03, 02:51 PM
#17
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If this guy charged $9 shipping for a floppy drive, and sent via media mail, he needs to be reported. Not only is this postage gouging, which is against ebay policy, but it is illegal.
It costs $2.26 to ship a 3 lb package from central florida to california via media mail. It costs $8.55 for priority mail. A floppy drive probably weighs less.
It costs $2.26 to ship a 3 lb package from central florida to california via media mail. It costs $8.55 for priority mail. A floppy drive probably weighs less.
07-20-03, 03:27 PM
#19
DVD Talk Hall of Fame
In speaking with the guy at the post office, I was told that they reserve the right to open all mail shipped via any option other than first class at any time to make sure you are playing by the rules. I'm not sure what the penalty is for non-compliance.
07-20-03, 04:31 PM
#20
Moderator
Thread Starter
Originally posted by BigPete
In speaking with the guy at the post office, I was told that they reserve the right to open all mail shipped via any option other than first class at any time to make sure you are playing by the rules. I'm not sure what the penalty is for non-compliance.
In speaking with the guy at the post office, I was told that they reserve the right to open all mail shipped via any option other than first class at any time to make sure you are playing by the rules. I'm not sure what the penalty is for non-compliance.
I wrote them a long email chronologically putting every email in the body of the letter.
Never at anytime was I told about a Return Label. That's what's p'ing me off right now.
I will report them to eBay as well.
But in the end, I'm just a thorn in their 912 feedback rating!
07-20-03, 06:28 PM
#21
DVD Talk Hall of Fame
Originally posted by Goldberg74
Well, mine is unopened, and that is how I am taking it to the PO tomorrow.
I wrote them a long email chronologically putting every email in the body of the letter.
Never at anytime was I told about a Return Label. That's what's p'ing me off right now.
I will report them to eBay as well.
But in the end, I'm just a thorn in their 912 feedback rating!
Well, mine is unopened, and that is how I am taking it to the PO tomorrow.
I wrote them a long email chronologically putting every email in the body of the letter.
Never at anytime was I told about a Return Label. That's what's p'ing me off right now.
I will report them to eBay as well.
But in the end, I'm just a thorn in their 912 feedback rating!
07-20-03, 08:57 PM
#22
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Did they leave positive feedback for me... yup. within days. But when I pay $9 for shipping and get it two weeks later... and then another two weeks for the replacement... that's where I draw the line.
Edit... here's their response to my negative feedback:
gets your facts straight. ANY doa items WE SEND YOU A RETURN LABEL.
I was never sent a return label. Is there a way I leave a comment on their comment to my feedback?
07-21-03, 06:38 AM
#23
DVD Talk Legend
In my auctions, I have recently stated that the shipping listed is not the actual price it costs me to ship. Most people understand that. Ebay fees can be very high depending on the amount you set your auction at. Plus, you add the paypal fees and then closing fees for ebay.
Example, I just sold a 70.00 DVD. Cost me in total ebay start and end fees about $4.00. Then 2.33 for the paypal fee. That is a quick 6 dollars lost due to fees. So, maybe $6.00 isn''t a big deal to you...but for me, it is a pack & a half of smokes.
And as far as "fessing up" in regards to one of the items I sent Priority instead of media mail. The difference was about 20 dollars! However, when I was able to ship a DVD player via media mail, cost me about 4 bucks!
Now, when I ship DVDS, I usually send via first class. In the case of this last DVD I sold, which I bought for 21 dollars the other day, I had a starting bid of 49.99 and a Buy It Now of $70.00. It was the Civil War Directed By Ken Burns. I figured, if Buy It Now was used, I would charge no shipping and send via media mail with D/C. However, had a bid been placed and buy it now not used, I was going to charge $7.00 for Priority plus D/C. This item is a 5 Disc set...so I took into consideration the cost of Priority & D/C which is about 4.30 and change. Leaving me with an extra 2.80 which would have covered some of the paypal fees.
Do I feel it is wrong? No. Why? Because when I sell something, I like to make a profit. I am in no way different from any online dvd shop that charges 4.00 per item...or 6.99 for Priority.
Now, in regard to the auction details... they were spelled out. Once you bid, it is a contract and you have to honor it. It is interesting to see that no one pays attention to that. Was his shipping charge way too much? You bet. But you chose to bid on it knowing those fees in advance.
But I think your big stink is that, he sent it via media mail. I can buy that. However, would you still be complaining if it had said that in the auction or would you not have bid in the first place?
And as far as the shipping label, miscommunication happens when several people are working at the same place. Basically, if the auction states "Buyer pays return shipping" that is usually the deal. Yet you complain about that also.
In the end, no matter what I say or what anyone else says, you'll have you own opinion. We can all agree to disagree.
Example, I just sold a 70.00 DVD. Cost me in total ebay start and end fees about $4.00. Then 2.33 for the paypal fee. That is a quick 6 dollars lost due to fees. So, maybe $6.00 isn''t a big deal to you...but for me, it is a pack & a half of smokes.
And as far as "fessing up" in regards to one of the items I sent Priority instead of media mail. The difference was about 20 dollars! However, when I was able to ship a DVD player via media mail, cost me about 4 bucks!
Now, when I ship DVDS, I usually send via first class. In the case of this last DVD I sold, which I bought for 21 dollars the other day, I had a starting bid of 49.99 and a Buy It Now of $70.00. It was the Civil War Directed By Ken Burns. I figured, if Buy It Now was used, I would charge no shipping and send via media mail with D/C. However, had a bid been placed and buy it now not used, I was going to charge $7.00 for Priority plus D/C. This item is a 5 Disc set...so I took into consideration the cost of Priority & D/C which is about 4.30 and change. Leaving me with an extra 2.80 which would have covered some of the paypal fees.
Do I feel it is wrong? No. Why? Because when I sell something, I like to make a profit. I am in no way different from any online dvd shop that charges 4.00 per item...or 6.99 for Priority.
Now, in regard to the auction details... they were spelled out. Once you bid, it is a contract and you have to honor it. It is interesting to see that no one pays attention to that. Was his shipping charge way too much? You bet. But you chose to bid on it knowing those fees in advance.
But I think your big stink is that, he sent it via media mail. I can buy that. However, would you still be complaining if it had said that in the auction or would you not have bid in the first place?
And as far as the shipping label, miscommunication happens when several people are working at the same place. Basically, if the auction states "Buyer pays return shipping" that is usually the deal. Yet you complain about that also.
In the end, no matter what I say or what anyone else says, you'll have you own opinion. We can all agree to disagree.
Last edited by Bill Geiger; 07-21-03 at 06:45 AM.
07-21-03, 07:09 AM
#24
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Bill,
I am going to step up here and give you some credit. You came back with a very calm response even though I targeted you pretty hard with my last post or two. I still disagree with your choices on media mail, but I am going to opt to leave you alone with regard to this out of appreciation for the calm and dignified manner with which you replied.
Scotty
I am going to step up here and give you some credit. You came back with a very calm response even though I targeted you pretty hard with my last post or two. I still disagree with your choices on media mail, but I am going to opt to leave you alone with regard to this out of appreciation for the calm and dignified manner with which you replied.
Scotty
07-21-03, 07:15 AM
#25
DVD Talk Hall of Fame
Well, the easy suggestion is to quit smoking. It's ironic, spending your money on cigarettes, but complaining about Ebay and Paypal charging their 2-5% fees. Did you know that of the price of one pack cigarettes, in Pennsylvania, the state's taxes and 'fees' are 31 cents a pack, which is probably around 15%, not to mention sales tax and federal excise taxes. Where's your outrage there? [Note; this is not meant to serve as a moral opinion on smoking, but to point out the inconsistency in your logic.]
If the s/h costs were stated in the auction and charged that amount, unless they were reported to Ebay who decided they were 'unreasonably high' and were trying to avoid the fee, then yes, it's up to every bidder to decide how much he is willing to pay in total, including s/h. I personally wouldn't pay more than four bucks priority mail for shipping one or two dvd's, because I know it doesn't cost that much to do so; any profit should come from the price of the item. You mention wanting to make a profit; on your example, you make almost 100% profit even had someone only bid your starting amount. Obviously I could see charging a little more for shipping a 5 disk set.
About the big stink about shipping media mail; this isn't an 'agree to disagree' thing; what he did was wrong. Morally and legally. He may not be ripping off the auction winner, but he is ripping off the postal service; and if he'll rip off the PO, why wouldn't he rip off a customer? If the item was promised to ship a certain way [I don't know that it was], he should have shipped it that way.] But regardless, you are not supposed to ship non-media mail stuff, media mail. That is, I guess, mail fraud [misrepresenting the shipped item.
"Media Mail™ contents are limited to materials such as books, sound recordings, recorded video tapes, printed music, and recorded computer-readable media (such as CDs, DVDs, and diskettes)." http://www.usps.com/send/waystosendm.../mediamail.htm
I don't know what the penalties are, but call up the PO and ask them if you could ship, say, a DVD player via media mail. If the clerk says Yes, he's wrong. Now, about the situation with a DVD player including 1 DVD; that's a gray area, and I'd say it violates the spirit of the rule, if not the letter. Actually, upon reading the phrase above, I would say it does violate the letter of the law also. That's on the same level as pricetag switching, which would probably be considered OK since the store is trying to make an evil profit, and I have to cover my gas money and car depreciation for the drive to the store.
And it may have been miscommunication with the shipping label; things do happen, esp. when multiple people handle a transaction. But if I ran a business, I would make darn sure that at least the miscommunication didn't affect someone's feedback, since that is permanent and can't be changed. In this case, the FB does not accurately represent the transaction, as described by the winner. To me, that almost makes that fraudulent feedback.
If the s/h costs were stated in the auction and charged that amount, unless they were reported to Ebay who decided they were 'unreasonably high' and were trying to avoid the fee, then yes, it's up to every bidder to decide how much he is willing to pay in total, including s/h. I personally wouldn't pay more than four bucks priority mail for shipping one or two dvd's, because I know it doesn't cost that much to do so; any profit should come from the price of the item. You mention wanting to make a profit; on your example, you make almost 100% profit even had someone only bid your starting amount. Obviously I could see charging a little more for shipping a 5 disk set.
About the big stink about shipping media mail; this isn't an 'agree to disagree' thing; what he did was wrong. Morally and legally. He may not be ripping off the auction winner, but he is ripping off the postal service; and if he'll rip off the PO, why wouldn't he rip off a customer? If the item was promised to ship a certain way [I don't know that it was], he should have shipped it that way.] But regardless, you are not supposed to ship non-media mail stuff, media mail. That is, I guess, mail fraud [misrepresenting the shipped item.
"Media Mail™ contents are limited to materials such as books, sound recordings, recorded video tapes, printed music, and recorded computer-readable media (such as CDs, DVDs, and diskettes)." http://www.usps.com/send/waystosendm.../mediamail.htm
I don't know what the penalties are, but call up the PO and ask them if you could ship, say, a DVD player via media mail. If the clerk says Yes, he's wrong. Now, about the situation with a DVD player including 1 DVD; that's a gray area, and I'd say it violates the spirit of the rule, if not the letter. Actually, upon reading the phrase above, I would say it does violate the letter of the law also. That's on the same level as pricetag switching, which would probably be considered OK since the store is trying to make an evil profit, and I have to cover my gas money and car depreciation for the drive to the store.
And it may have been miscommunication with the shipping label; things do happen, esp. when multiple people handle a transaction. But if I ran a business, I would make darn sure that at least the miscommunication didn't affect someone's feedback, since that is permanent and can't be changed. In this case, the FB does not accurately represent the transaction, as described by the winner. To me, that almost makes that fraudulent feedback.