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The 2021 Pro Wrestling Thread.

Old 10-19-21, 12:52 AM
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Re: The 2021 Pro Wrestling Thread.

Strictly Business imploded last week as Thom Latimer turned on former Champion Nick Aldis and sent him to the hospital.

And here's what Latimer had to say about it...


Despite the time off last year (setting them back quite a bit), and the loss of some major talent, the NWA is still putting out a really good show every week.
Old 10-19-21, 02:43 AM
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Re: The 2021 Pro Wrestling Thread.

Originally Posted by AaronHernandez View Post
2 of the best tv matches of the year(Bryan vs Suzuki and Sasha Banks vs Becky Lynch) are essentially thrown away in bad timeslots and watched by less then a million viewers
Bryan Danielson could have faced indy enhancement talent, it wouldn't have made a difference. Most wrestling fans, who are already a niche audience, don't know who Suzuki is. I think it probably got all the spotlight it deserved.
Old 10-19-21, 07:35 AM
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Re: The 2021 Pro Wrestling Thread.

Just watched the Darkside Luna episode and ugh. I was never a fan of hers but that was just heartbreaking. This show is really great about making you care about someone you never thought about caring about.
Old 10-19-21, 12:45 PM
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Re: The 2021 Pro Wrestling Thread.

Well they did it,

During a promo video for Keith Lee, they revealed a brand new name for the former NXT Champion. He is now just Bearcat Lee without a first name intact. This is a little change, and now Lee will carry on as a heel with this new name.
Old 10-19-21, 01:10 PM
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Re: The 2021 Pro Wrestling Thread.

Honestly, it's better than Keith "Bearcat" Lee. I don't know who decided it was good that way. If they wanted to keep his full name, Bearcat Keith Lee would have been better.
Old 10-19-21, 01:57 PM
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Re: The 2021 Pro Wrestling Thread.

Doesn't this have to do with the fact he didn't want to sign his name away to them?
Old 10-19-21, 03:46 PM
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Re: The 2021 Pro Wrestling Thread.

Here's what Wiki has to say about this namesake.

Bearcat Wright - Wikipedia
Old 10-19-21, 04:18 PM
  #1533  
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Re: The 2021 Pro Wrestling Thread.

Originally Posted by fujishig View Post
Doesn't this have to do with the fact he didn't want to sign his name away to them?
You can't sign your legal name away. It doesn't work that way.

WWE was attempting to trademark the name for merchandising purposes. Every WWE talent since the 80's has had this done, including those who performed under their legal names. The trademark expires when their contract ends and are free to take it elsewhere or trademark it themselves.

When WWE filed to trademark Lee's name, it did not go thru because Lee didn't provide written consent. I don't know the details of why he refused, unless he is planning on marketing his own wrestling related products with his name on them or something, but I would think that his deal prohibits him from doing so while he is under contract anyway.

But yes, if they are now marketing him as Bearcat Lee, they can trademark that without his consent becuase it is their creation, but no one was ever trying to take his name away from him, nor would they be allowed to legally.
Old 10-19-21, 04:47 PM
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Re: The 2021 Pro Wrestling Thread.

I don't know for sure, but I think the problem is if, say, he enters a contract like an acting job... the WWE gets a cut even if they aren't involved at all. I believe that's the case with Cena right now as well. I can understand not wanting to sign that away, I don't think it's restricted to just wrestling merchandising rights.
Old 10-19-21, 05:58 PM
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Re: The 2021 Pro Wrestling Thread.

Originally Posted by fujishig View Post
I don't know for sure, but I think the problem is if, say, he enters a contract like an acting job... the WWE gets a cut even if they aren't involved at all. I believe that's the case with Cena right now as well. I can understand not wanting to sign that away, I don't think it's restricted to just wrestling merchandising rights.
John Cena is his real name so he doesnít have to give WWE a cut at all since heís now under a special per appearance contract. On the other hand the Rock canít call himself that because that nickname is owned by WWE. Thatís why he goes by his real name Dwayne Johnson. Same with Steve Austin. He canít call himself Stone Cold, so thatís why he uses the Broken Skull name for his products since he trademarked that. He can use Steve Austin since he created the name before he went to WCW.

The whole real name trademark with WWE has been a fucking headache since Vince Jr. took over. At first, most wrestlers went along with it since they were making more money than they ever would in the indies. This all changed once Jim Hellwig sued Vince and WWE for the ownership of the Ultimate Warrior name and character. After that, Vince and the company became more protective about trademarks and copyrights. They rarely let talent use their real name. Those that they let use their name have said how much of a headache it becomes dealing with WWE. CM Punk has been very vocal about it.
Old 10-19-21, 06:03 PM
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Re: The 2021 Pro Wrestling Thread.

Well, at least before Cena had to give WWE a cut, he said as much during a Stern interview but as a company man he just felt it was his dues since he made his name with them. Maybe that changed since but certainly someone like Lee would be under that earlier, restrictive contract.
Old 10-19-21, 08:27 PM
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Re: The 2021 Pro Wrestling Thread.

What year did Cena say that, and was he still mainly making WWE films at the time?
Old 10-19-21, 09:35 PM
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Re: The 2021 Pro Wrestling Thread.

Originally Posted by Obi-Wanma View Post
What year did Cena say that, and was he still mainly making WWE films at the time?
2006:
Old 10-19-21, 10:05 PM
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Re: The 2021 Pro Wrestling Thread.

So that was about the Marine, and that was his first WWE film, so that makes sense. I don't know that it's accurate to say that Vince gets a cut of his salary though. WWE basically owned the movie.

The whole reason for WWE films was to put their talent into films and make money off of them that way. If John Cena at that time was offered a big Hollywood movie that was not produced by WWE, I have a hard time believing that WWE would be entitled to a cut of that action.

Now WWE might not give him time off to make that kind of movie, or maybe that's how they would get their cut. By giving him time off and taking a cut from the studio with an executive producer credit or whatnot in exchange for allowing him time off to make the movie.

Now if he got offered a really big money movie deal and was willing to walk away from WWE to do it (like Piper did with They Live), I doubt that there's anything that they could do about it.
Old 10-20-21, 07:50 PM
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Re: The 2021 Pro Wrestling Thread.

Originally Posted by Obi-Wanma View Post
So that was about the Marine, and that was his first WWE film, so that makes sense. I don't know that it's accurate to say that Vince gets a cut of his salary though. WWE basically owned the movie.

The whole reason for WWE films was to put their talent into films and make money off of them that way. If John Cena at that time was offered a big Hollywood movie that was not produced by WWE, I have a hard time believing that WWE would be entitled to a cut of that action.

Now WWE might not give him time off to make that kind of movie, or maybe that's how they would get their cut. By giving him time off and taking a cut from the studio with an executive producer credit or whatnot in exchange for allowing him time off to make the movie.

Now if he got offered a really big money movie deal and was willing to walk away from WWE to do it (like Piper did with They Live), I doubt that there's anything that they could do about it.
Roddy Piper, Jesse Ventura, Andre and other talent that did movies in the 80's had a much different deal than wrestlers in the 90's and beyond. Basically, they didn't have guaranteed contracts back then to start with. Secondly, Piper's contract with WWE was over by the time he did They Live and every time he came back to the company, it was under the deal of doing a small run and then going back to Hollywood. Ventura had an announcer deal with schedule flexibility to go do films, but by the end of the 80's he was already gone from the company. Andre had mostly a per appearance deal, and Vince knew not to screw with him. Anytime Andre felt slighted by Vince, he would do something like show up on Herb Abram's UWF or do an appearance for NWA/WCW or go to Japan. Hogan was allowed to do his own thing and come back by the time his first run was ending.

After Hogan left and Vince started giving guaranteed contracts, WWE started an approval process of letting wrestlers do film or not and they had the right to take a cut of the movie salary if they were under WWE contract. Bret gave a cut of his appearances in Lonesome Dove and the Simpsons. Paul Wight recently mentioned in an interview that Vince vetoed him appearing in Gladiator, and was told that he was paid to wrestle not to do movies. Vince allowed the Rock to do films since Dwayne had more leverage in the company by being the top star. Same with Stone Cold and doing his appearances on MTV Deathmatch. In both cases, WWE took a cut of their film/TV earnings.

There are 2 clear things: If the wrestler is under contract, they have to ask for permission to do a film or anything outside of the company and will have to give a cut back to WWE. This defeats the whole idea of independent contractor. The second thing is if the wrestler is no longer under contract, they can do what they want as long as they don't use their WWE trademarked/copyrighted name. That's why Batista went back to his real name Dave Bautista and the same with Dwayne Johnson.
Old 10-21-21, 03:37 PM
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Re: The 2021 Pro Wrestling Thread.

You are not an independent contractor if you perform services that can be controlled by an employer (what will be done and how it will be done).
--
from IRS definition

Heck, just by being told that "you're to be at Raw by 8pm, you're wrestling Bobby Lashley and you'll lose to his finisher after 4 minutes" defeats the idea of an independent contractor.
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Old 10-21-21, 04:35 PM
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Re: The 2021 Pro Wrestling Thread.

And ... I've seen enough of NXT 2.0 to realize that it is not something I want to bother with (previously, NXT had been the only WWE show I was regularly watching). The skittle-vomit look, Kevin Dunn style headache-inducing editing, and so many wrestlers being green doofuses with silly/annoying gimmicks ... just not for me.
Old 10-21-21, 09:47 PM
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Re: The 2021 Pro Wrestling Thread.

Kevin Dunn's camera cuts are making me physically ill. I read online that I'm not the only one. It's fucking ridiculous how horrible he is doing this and no one stops him. There's no sports out there that does this type of camera cuts and is for an obvious reason: It's horrible.
Old 10-21-21, 09:54 PM
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Re: The 2021 Pro Wrestling Thread.

Originally Posted by GuessWho View Post
You are not an independent contractor if you perform services that can be controlled by an employer (what will be done and how it will be done).
--
from IRS definition

Heck, just by being told that "you're to be at Raw by 8pm, you're wrestling Bobby Lashley and you'll lose to his finisher after 4 minutes" defeats the idea of an independent contractor.
I had this argument over 15 years ago with the director of a company that hired me on a 2 year contract for several jobs as an independent contractor. The first part was that the guy wanted me at the office from 8am to 5PM. I told him that my contract didn't stipulate any hours, just the job that needed to be done. He said he was my immediate boss so he could require me anything. I refused and he wanted to fire me. HR told him he wasn't my boss and couldn't control me. The director couldn't grasp the idea of people working but not for him directly. That's exactly the issue with Vince. He's a control freak and wants to have everyone under his thumb. He's bribe his way through the Connecticut courts to do whatever he wants, but this shit seriously needs to stop.
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Old 10-22-21, 12:08 AM
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Re: The 2021 Pro Wrestling Thread.

Originally Posted by brainee View Post
And ... I've seen enough of NXT 2.0 to realize that it is not something I want to bother with (previously, NXT had been the only WWE show I was regularly watching). The skittle-vomit look, Kevin Dunn style headache-inducing editing, and so many wrestlers being green doofuses with silly/annoying gimmicks ... just not for me.

NXT was my last holdout. I gave up RAW and Smackdown about 4 years ago. I watched NXT for about 3 years. Even before 2.0 it was getting pretty bad. I gave up completely when they started having dinner segments at Johnny Gargano and Candice Leraes house and introduced the supernatural Asian villain who sat in the chair. Itís all just so so bad. I hold it in the same level of esteem as Real Housewives or Bachelor in Paradise. 2 shows Iíve never seen a full episode of but at least they apparently give the fans what they want. Even if Vince sells the company or dies. Things are going to continue spiraling down the crapper. Itís a lost cause at this point. I donít think WWE will ever be good again. Itís over.


All I watch now is AEW, who arenít without their problems. But I still manage to enjoy a lot of it, and when they are using more legitimate talent, and top stars, itís usually very good.

im considering picking back up with NWA and ROH. But I hate that NWA isnít on YouTube anymore and that ROH hasnít brought audiences back for tv.
Old 10-22-21, 08:14 AM
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Re: The 2021 Pro Wrestling Thread.

Crown Jewel recap... no title changes... king and queen are Xavier Woods & Zelina Vega.
Old 10-22-21, 11:30 AM
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Re: The 2021 Pro Wrestling Thread.

Originally Posted by GuessWho View Post
Crown Jewel recap... no title changes... king and queen are Xavier Woods & Zelina Vega.
Yup, that's a good breakdown. The women's triple threat was the best match.
Old 10-23-21, 12:24 PM
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Re: The 2021 Pro Wrestling Thread.

JR just announced that he has skin cancer

Old 10-23-21, 07:49 PM
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Re: The 2021 Pro Wrestling Thread.

Rumor is that tonight is the end of partnership between AEW and IMPACT
Old 10-23-21, 08:23 PM
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Re: The 2021 Pro Wrestling Thread.

There was some sort of backstage incident between Becky Lynch and Charlotte last night
https://411mania.com/wrestling/backs...wwe-smackdown/

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