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2012-2013 NFL Offseason Thread

Old 01-23-13, 11:54 AM
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Re: 2012-2013 NFL Offseason Thread

Originally Posted by Tarantino View Post
The "racism card" can't be used like this anymore. The president is black.
This is a patently dumb argument.
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Old 01-23-13, 11:54 AM
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Re: 2012-2013 NFL Offseason Thread

Originally Posted by CRM114 View Post
I'd give Andy's early success to the Ray Rhodes constructed defense equally with Donovan.
Sure.
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Old 01-23-13, 12:00 PM
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Re: 2012-2013 NFL Offseason Thread

Originally Posted by CRM114 View Post
I'm not Andy Reid fan but...

6 division titles
5 NFC Championship appearances, 4 consecutive.

vs

3 division titles
2 NFC Championship appearances
Reid had a great run in Philly - fact. But the guy is done. He's going to have 4 years (or less) of mediocre football in KC and call it quits. He reminds me of a wrestler who just doesn't know when to hang'em up.
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Old 01-23-13, 12:25 PM
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Re: 2012-2013 NFL Offseason Thread

Originally Posted by B5Erik View Post
Lovie Smith couldn't work with offensive coordinators. He was always blaming them for the team's lack of success. People in Chicago apparently found this extremely frustrating and the fans grew tired of it.

I think Lovie Smith is a good coach, but there are some serious issues there. He doesn't seem to know how to deal with being in charge of an ENTIRE team. Offense is his kryptonite. That's why I didn't want him in San Diego.

If not for his inability to coach effectively on the offensive side of the ball (and the head coach is responsible for overseeing ALL of the team, including offense) then Lovie would be a great head coach. But he can't oversee the offense effectively, and he can't work well with offensive coordinators, so in the end he's just a good head coach instead of a great one. And good typically doesn't get it done long term in the NFL. If you're just good you may be the head coach, but Not For Long.

As a Bears fan, that's exactly how I feel about Lovie. I think that may be why he's having a hard time finding a job. It's a hard sell for him to say he can put together an offensive coaching staff and a NFL offense.

As far as Lovie vs Andy Reid, at least with Reid you can make a case that he just needed a change of scenery.

Also, Lovie's teams tanked the last two years. 7-1 this year and no playoffs. I get he won 10 games, but you win 7 of the first 8 you need to make the playoffs. I also get he made a SB. He got there based on the defense and special teams. And the first thing he did after the SB was go on a power trip and get rid of the DC (Ron Rivera) to bring in his buddy Bob Babbich (of whatever his name is) which set the defense back. A lot of bad decision making when it came to putting together a staff.
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Old 01-23-13, 12:31 PM
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Re: 2012-2013 NFL Offseason Thread

Originally Posted by raven56706 View Post
lovie smith gets to the superbowl with a shitty qb.... he is given a good qb and cant even get to the Bowl...

chris... please STFU
Yes because getting to the Super Bowl is so easy.

And your logic makes no sense. That would be to Lovie's credit that he got to the Super Bowl with Grossman and who said Cutler was good and Cutler left the NFC Champ. game with an 'injury' so how exactly is that Lovie's fault.

Smith deserves as much a second chance as Reid does. Rock is right.

YOU probably need to follow the advice you are giving Rock.
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Old 01-23-13, 12:34 PM
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Re: 2012-2013 NFL Offseason Thread

Originally Posted by bootsy View Post
Tim Brown is a bitter douchebag.
I think that story is hilarious. The Raiders lived and died by the pass. They had the #1 passing attack and the #18 rushing attack. And we're somehow supposed to believe that the original game plan going into the SB was to run the ball? And that 2 diva WR's were pissed about a lot of passing?

Gannon only had 10 picks all year. He threw 5 in that game. Geez, I wonder to whom these balls were thrown to?
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Old 01-23-13, 12:36 PM
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Re: 2012-2013 NFL Offseason Thread

Originally Posted by bootsy View Post
Yes because getting to the Super Bowl is so easy.

And your logic makes no sense. That would be to Lovie's credit that he got to the Super Bowl with Grossman and who said Cutler was good and Cutler left the NFC Champ. game with an 'injury' so how exactly is that Lovie's fault.

Smith deserves as much a second chance as Reid does. Rock is right.
No, he's not.

Lovie cannot coach offense, and he cannot put together an offensive staff that he can work with. It's been nothing but turmoil and turnover on the offensive staff. Lovie kept blaming (and firing) his offensive coordinators, but at a certain point you have to start pointing the finger at the guy in charge.

Until Lovie proves that he can deal with coaching the offensive side of the ball he isn't going to get another chance as Head Coach in the NFL. You HAVE to be a complete coach to be able to succeed as a HC in the NFL. He isn't.

Maybe if he took a job as an assitant to an offensive coordinator just to learn offenses better he'd be a better candidate, but as of right now he is severely flawed and those flaws will prevent him from getting that desired head coaching job.
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Old 01-23-13, 01:03 PM
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Re: 2012-2013 NFL Offseason Thread

Originally Posted by B5Erik View Post
No, he's not.

Lovie cannot coach offense, and he cannot put together an offensive staff that he can work with. It's been nothing but turmoil and turnover on the offensive staff. Lovie kept blaming (and firing) his offensive coordinators, but at a certain point you have to start pointing the finger at the guy in charge.

Until Lovie proves that he can deal with coaching the offensive side of the ball he isn't going to get another chance as Head Coach in the NFL. You HAVE to be a complete coach to be able to succeed as a HC in the NFL. He isn't.

Maybe if he took a job as an assitant to an offensive coordinator just to learn offenses better he'd be a better candidate, but as of right now he is severely flawed and those flaws will prevent him from getting that desired head coaching job.
Well ok thanks I guess for mentioning what Lovie can't do. You could mention weak points about Reid and pretty much any head coach as well. That's not really the point. The point is if all these other coaches are getting jobs over and over again like Chan Gailey, Norv Turner, ANDY REID and on and on with the retreads, Smith deserves one as well. There is no way you can sit here with a straight face and tell he doesn't deserve another coaching job when other lesser coaches are getting multiple opportunities.
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Old 01-23-13, 01:07 PM
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Re: 2012-2013 NFL Offseason Thread

I wish Norv Turner did in Washington what Andy Reid did in Philly.
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Old 01-23-13, 01:16 PM
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Re: 2012-2013 NFL Offseason Thread

Originally Posted by bootsy View Post
Well ok thanks I guess for mentioning what Lovie can't do. You could mention weak points about Reid and pretty much any head coach as well. That's not really the point. The point is if all these other coaches are getting jobs over and over again like Chan Gailey, Norv Turner, ANDY REID and on and on with the retreads, Smith deserves one as well. There is no way you can sit here with a straight face and tell he doesn't deserve another coaching job when other lesser coaches are getting multiple opportunities.
Who was happy that Norv Turner got hired as Head Coach in San Diego? He had no business getting that job.

That doesn't change the fact that Lovie has made it a habit of blaming and firing others for his own shortcomings. Fans in Chicago are fairly happy that he's gone. His act (blaming the offensive coordinator for the team's failures, and then firing him) wore thin with them.

I don't know of any other head coach in recent NFL history that had such glaring weaknesses on one side of the ball. I also don't know of any other head coach in recent NFL history that went through so many coordinators on one side of the ball. And Lovie went through those guys by choice. He couldn't work successfully with one guy, fired him, had the same problems with the next guy, fired him, rinse and repeat. At what point is it Lovie's fault that the offense couldn't work? He never took responsibility for that.

I'd much rather have Mike McCoy in San Diego. He has a history of being able to successfully work with people and get the most out of his players.

Lovie is not a legitimate Head Coaching candidate until he can master offense or learn how to successfully delegate the coaching of that side of the ball.

Why would any GM & owner hire him as a head coach when they know that he won't be able to have a successful offense?
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Old 01-23-13, 01:22 PM
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Re: 2012-2013 NFL Offseason Thread

Maybe Lovie wants to take a year off.
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Old 01-23-13, 01:24 PM
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Re: 2012-2013 NFL Offseason Thread

Originally Posted by B5Erik View Post
Who was happy that Norv Turner got hired as Head Coach in San Diego? He had no business getting that job.
Norv is a perfect example of the NFL old-boys club. How does that dude even get the SD job??
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Old 01-23-13, 01:26 PM
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Re: 2012-2013 NFL Offseason Thread

Originally Posted by Tarantino View Post
Maybe Lovie wants to take a year off.
Which is why he interviewed for head-coaching jobs in Philadelphia, San Diego and Buffalo?
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Old 01-23-13, 01:29 PM
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Re: 2012-2013 NFL Offseason Thread

Originally Posted by B5Erik View Post
Who was happy that Norv Turner got hired as Head Coach in San Diego? He had no business getting that job.

That doesn't change the fact that Lovie has made it a habit of blaming and firing others for his own shortcomings. Fans in Chicago are fairly happy that he's gone. His act (blaming the offensive coordinator for the team's failures, and then firing him) wore thin with them.

I don't know of any other head coach in recent NFL history that had such glaring weaknesses on one side of the ball. I also don't know of any other head coach in recent NFL history that went through so many coordinators on one side of the ball. And Lovie went through those guys by choice. He couldn't work successfully with one guy, fired him, had the same problems with the next guy, fired him, rinse and repeat. At what point is it Lovie's fault that the offense couldn't work? He never took responsibility for that.

I'd much rather have Mike McCoy in San Diego. He has a history of being able to successfully work with people and get the most out of his players.

Lovie is not a legitimate Head Coaching candidate until he can master offense or learn how to successfully delegate the coaching of that side of the ball.

Why would any GM & owner hire him as a head coach when they know that he won't be able to have a successful offense?
He didn't have any business but HE DID GET IT. That's the point I'm making, Chris Rock is making. Guys like that keep getting jobs why can't Lovie Smith get one. You keep mentioning Lovie can't do this and that and blamed this and that and all this other stuff that doesn't matter with the point trying to be made. No one is saying Lovie is a great coach or anything but he certainly more than deserves another shot if Norv Turner can get two more.
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Old 01-23-13, 01:32 PM
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Re: 2012-2013 NFL Offseason Thread

Originally Posted by chess View Post
Norv is a perfect example of the NFL old-boys club. How does that dude even get the SD job??
To me, not all retreads are alike: there are legitimate retreads and inexplicable retreads. I think we all know which category Norv fit in at the time SD (and OAK) hired him.
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Old 01-23-13, 01:37 PM
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Re: 2012-2013 NFL Offseason Thread

Originally Posted by bootsy View Post
He didn't have any business but HE DID GET IT. That's the point I'm making, Chris Rock is making. Guys like that keep getting jobs why can't Lovie Smith get one. You keep mentioning Lovie can't do this and that and blamed this and that and all this other stuff that doesn't matter with the point trying to be made. No one is saying Lovie is a great coach or anything but he certainly more than deserves another shot if Norv Turner can get two more.
But Norv NEVER had the issues that Lovie has. He never blamed his defensive coordinator for his teams' lack of success. He didn't fire coordinator after coordinator.

Lovie's problems not only speak to competence but to character. That was never an issue with Norv.

Like I said, I would NEVER hire the Lovie Smith of 2013 to be my head coach beause of the issues he's had in Chicago. Nor would any reasonably intelligent General Manager. It's ridiculous to expect a GM to hire a head coach with such proven shortcomings.
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Old 01-23-13, 01:39 PM
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Re: 2012-2013 NFL Offseason Thread

If Chris Rock said....if Norv Turner can get re-hired in the NFL (twice no less), why can't Lovie, I think this thread would have a page less posts now because everyone would be in agreement.
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Old 01-23-13, 01:39 PM
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Re: 2012-2013 NFL Offseason Thread

Originally Posted by bootsy View Post
Yes because getting to the Super Bowl is so easy.

And your logic makes no sense. That would be to Lovie's credit that he got to the Super Bowl with Grossman and who said Cutler was good and Cutler left the NFC Champ. game with an 'injury' so how exactly is that Lovie's fault.

Smith deserves as much a second chance as Reid does. Rock is right.

YOU probably need to follow the advice you are giving Rock.
true but you would have a better shot with a better Qb and the same defense... the defense barely changed... the qb position got a big upgrade and the Wr position got a nice one... but still no luck... not to mention not even an entrance into the playoffs...

so tell me... something wrong here... im not saying he is terrible but at least Andy was really consistent...
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Old 01-23-13, 01:43 PM
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Re: 2012-2013 NFL Offseason Thread

Originally Posted by bootsy View Post
He didn't have any business but HE DID GET IT. That's the point I'm making, Chris Rock is making. Guys like that keep getting jobs why can't Lovie Smith get one. You keep mentioning Lovie can't do this and that and blamed this and that and all this other stuff that doesn't matter with the point trying to be made. No one is saying Lovie is a great coach or anything but he certainly more than deserves another shot if Norv Turner can get two more.
you dont think he is thinking racially? as in Rock's mentality....

come on buddy.. you are better than that..
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Old 01-23-13, 01:45 PM
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Re: 2012-2013 NFL Offseason Thread

Originally Posted by Red Dog View Post
To me, not all retreads are alike: there are legitimate retreads and inexplicable retreads. I think we all know which category Norv fit in at the time SD (and OAK) hired him.
When he got the SD job in 2007, he had a combined head coaching record of 58-82. Inexplicable is a great word.
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Old 01-23-13, 01:55 PM
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Re: 2012-2013 NFL Offseason Thread

Originally Posted by B5Erik View Post
But Norv NEVER had the issues that Lovie has. He never blamed his defensive coordinator for his teams' lack of success. He didn't fire coordinator after coordinator.

Lovie's problems not only speak to competence but to character. That was never an issue with Norv.

Like I said, I would NEVER hire the Lovie Smith of 2013 to be my head coach beause of the issues he's had in Chicago. Nor would any reasonably intelligent General Manager. It's ridiculous to expect a GM to hire a head coach with such proven shortcomings.
Wow ok. Norv had plenty of issues. ISSUES WITH WINNING FOOTBALL GAMES. That is pretty much the most important thing when you are a head coach. You are completely backtracking like crazy. First you state how did Norv get the job in SD to now making excuses as to why he got the job. Keep them coming this is fun.
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Old 01-23-13, 01:58 PM
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Re: 2012-2013 NFL Offseason Thread

Originally Posted by bootsy View Post
Wow ok. Norv had plenty of issues. ISSUES WITH WINNING FOOTBALL GAMES. That is pretty much the most important thing when you are a head coach. You are completely backtracking like crazy. First you state how did Norv get the job in SD to now making excuses as to why he got the job. Keep them coming this is fun.
Lovie interviewed with 3 different places and no luck... maybe there is something wrong with lovie right?
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Old 01-23-13, 01:58 PM
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Re: 2012-2013 NFL Offseason Thread

Originally Posted by raven56706 View Post
you dont think he is thinking racially? as in Rock's mentality....

come on buddy.. you are better than that..
Yeah he's thinking racially. So what, he's right. Every coaching opening went to a white person. You mean to tell me there isn't one qualified black coach or any other minority coaching candidate out there. Most of them didn't even get an interview. It's ridiculous and I'm glad he said it. It needs to be repeated over and over again.
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Old 01-23-13, 01:59 PM
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Re: 2012-2013 NFL Offseason Thread

Originally Posted by raven56706 View Post
Lovie interviewed with 3 different places and no luck... maybe there is something wrong with lovie right?
Yeah I'm sure. Winning 10 games there's definitely something wrong with that.
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Old 01-23-13, 02:07 PM
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Re: 2012-2013 NFL Offseason Thread

Originally Posted by bootsy View Post
Yeah I'm sure. Winning 10 games there's definitely something wrong with that.
And no playoff appearance. He missed the playoffs more often than he made it.

An argument COULD be made that Norv Turner had crappy players in Washington and Oakland (in Oakland's case it is fact), and that's why he didn't win games. NO ONE has done a good job in Washington OR Oakland since he was fired from those jobs. When he did have good players his teams won (his first three years in San Diego).

Norv's problem as a head coach is that he's soft and runs a country club compared to many other teams.

Lovie's problem is that he doesn't know how to coach offense or work with offensive coordinators. That is a MUCH bigger problem than being soft.

Having said all that I was PISSED when Norv got hired, and I wouldn't want him OR Lovie as the Chargers' head coach. Neither one of them are good HC candidates at this time. That may change for Lovie over time (he could still learn more about offensive schemes and coaching the offense), but it never will for Norv. Norv will never again be an NFL head coach. Lovie might. IF he can successfully deal with that offensive side of the ball problem he currently has.
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