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MLB 2010-11 Offseason & Hot Stove Thread

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MLB 2010-11 Offseason & Hot Stove Thread

Old 01-05-11, 02:46 PM
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Re: MLB 2010-11 Offseason & Hot Stove Thread

Originally Posted by starman9000 View Post
Bert.

I love the guy, but it will be nice to not hear about it any more.
I'm happy that you're happy. But to be honest, as an AL fan, I never worried that my team was facing Bert Blyleven that night, not for a moment. Only twice an all-star and never really close to a Cy Young award. But, to be fair, other guys with similar careers got in as well so why not Bert? The voters eventually will reward longevity.
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Old 01-05-11, 03:05 PM
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Re: MLB 2010-11 Offseason & Hot Stove Thread

Adrian Beltre has agreed to a 6-year, $96 million dollar deal with the Rangers.

Food for thought: Beltre has only had 2 seasons out of 12 in which he's hit above .300, driven in 100+ runs, had a .850+ OPS or received MVP votes. Both have been "contract" years ('04 with the Dodgers and last season with the Red Sox). Guess that means the Rangers should expect a big year out of him in 2016.
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Old 01-05-11, 03:29 PM
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Re: MLB 2010-11 Offseason & Hot Stove Thread

Originally Posted by Red Dog View Post
Lofton has no shot? Really? Granted, I haven't looked at the numbers, but I remember him being the best lead-off hitting/base-stealer for something like a decade. And he was terrific defensively.

Doesn't Schilling have 230-250 wins? Between that and his postseason heroics, I'd think he'd get in.

I know Piazza wasn't a catcher for much of his career, but he put up huge numbers when he was catching.

Again, I don't really follow baseball anymore and haven't examined the numbers lately. Just going off memory. I'm getting to the point where I can't render opinions on players anymore.
Lofton didn't sustain it long enough to be a HOFer. He had 5 or 6 great years, and fell off after that (and wasn't playing full seasons after about 1999).

Schilling's a tweener, but I just don't see him getting in.
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Old 01-05-11, 03:36 PM
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Re: MLB 2010-11 Offseason & Hot Stove Thread

Originally Posted by Red Dog View Post
Lofton has no shot? Really? Granted, I haven't looked at the numbers, but I remember him being the best lead-off hitting/base-stealer for something like a decade. And he was terrific defensively.

Doesn't Schilling have 230-250 wins? Between that and his postseason heroics, I'd think he'd get in.

I know Piazza wasn't a catcher for much of his career, but he put up huge numbers when he was catching.

Again, I don't really follow baseball anymore and haven't examined the numbers lately. Just going off memory. I'm getting to the point where I can't render opinions on players anymore.
Schilling may make it, I'd give him a 50% shot, but it'll take him a while. Lofton belongs to the Hall of the Very Good, as was said, no way he makes it if Raines doesn't.

As for Piazza, he actually was a catcher for much of his career and is widely regarded as the greatest offensive catcher ever (though Mauer may take that title in a few years). He's a shoo-in for the Hall statistically, except for the fact that steroids has all the voters confused.
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Old 01-05-11, 05:25 PM
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Re: MLB 2010-11 Offseason & Hot Stove Thread

I'm glad to see Roberto Alomar make it to the HOF. He should have gone in last year but at least he's in.
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Old 01-05-11, 05:28 PM
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Re: MLB 2010-11 Offseason & Hot Stove Thread

Piazza should get in easily, if the writers aren't fucking dumbasses.
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Old 01-05-11, 06:01 PM
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Re: MLB 2010-11 Offseason & Hot Stove Thread

Originally Posted by Red Dog View Post
Doesn't Schilling have 230-250 wins? Between that and his postseason heroics, I'd think he'd get in.
Schilling was 216-146, not counting the postseason. Although I don't think he's worthy, I think he's going to get in eventually because he pitched for the Red Sox and was great in the postseason.

As for Bagwell, I believe some voters are so afraid that they will look like fools later that they are holding off from voting in sluggers from the steroid era right away. The idea is that they have plenty of time to let him in, so they're not rushing the process when new information could come out. And, they know that enough of their fellow writers will keep him on the ballot in the meantime. If nothing comes out in the next few years, he may get in.
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Old 01-05-11, 06:55 PM
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Re: MLB 2010-11 Offseason & Hot Stove Thread

I am a huge Schilling fan. That said, I doubt he ever gets in the hall. He is borderline accomplishment-wise, and his outspoken politics may hurt him as well.
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Old 01-05-11, 07:11 PM
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Re: MLB 2010-11 Offseason & Hot Stove Thread

Originally Posted by Quake1028 View Post
Piazza should get in easily, if the writers aren't fucking dumbasses.
google "mike piazza steroids" and get back to me. I'm not so sure.
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Old 01-05-11, 08:26 PM
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Re: MLB 2010-11 Offseason & Hot Stove Thread

Originally Posted by wildcatlh View Post
I was surprised he fell off the ballot while Juan Gone continues on.

Since next year is devoid of anyone who's even worthy of hitting the 5% mark, Larkin has gotta be in, right?

Next few years:

2012: Edgardo Alfonzo, Pedro Astacio, David Bell, Jeromy Burnitz, Vinny Castilla, Scott Erickson, Carl Everett, Jeff Fassero, Alex S. Gonzalez, Danny Graves, Rick Helling, Dustin Hermanson, Jose Hernandez, Brian Jordan, Matt Lawton, Javy Lopez, Bill Mueller, Terry Mulholland, Jeff Nelson, Phil Nevin, Brad Radke, Joe Randa, Tim Salmon, Ruben Sierra, Jose Vizcaino, Bernie Williams, Eric Young

2013: Barry Bonds, Roger Clemens, Craig Biggio, Curt Schilling, Sammy Sosa, Mike Piazza, Kenny Lofton, David Wells, Julio Franco, Shawn Green, Steve Finley, Roberto Hernandez, Jeff Cirillo, Jose Valentin, Reggie Sanders, Jeff Conine, Jose Mesa, Royce Clayton, Bob Wickman, Ryan Klesko, Aaron Sele, Woody Williams, Rondell White, Mike Lieberthal, Tony Batista, Mike Stanton, Sandy Alomar Jr., Damian Miller, Todd Walker

2014: Moises Alou, Armando Benitez, Sean Casey, Jose Cruz Jr., Ray Durham, Damion Easley, Jim Edmonds, Keith Foulke, Eric Gagne, Tom Glavine, Luis Gonzalez, Mark Grudzielanek, Scott Hatteberg, Jacque Jones, Todd Jones, Jeff Kent, Jon Lieber, Esteban Loaiza, Paul Lo Duca, Greg Maddux, Matt Morris, Mike Mussina, Trot Nixon, Hideo Nomo, Jay Payton, Kenny Rogers, Richie Sexson, J.T. Snow, Shannon Stewart, Frank Thomas, Mike Timlin, Steve Trachsel, Jose Vidro

2015: Nomar Garciaparra, Randy Johnson, Pedro Martinez, John Smoltz

2016: Brad Ausmus, Ken Griffey Jr.

----

2013 is gonna be interesting. Biggio might be the only first ballot guy there.
2015 looks like a kick-ass year for pitchers. Three of the best ever to play the game actually. Griffey is obviously a first year ballot in 2016 (maybe first ever 100% vote getter?) I'll be interested to see what happens in 2013 as well, but Schilling is a shoe-in in my book.
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Old 01-06-11, 12:14 AM
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Re: MLB 2010-11 Offseason & Hot Stove Thread

Originally Posted by jmu878 View Post
2015 looks like a kick-ass year for pitchers. Three of the best ever to play the game actually. Griffey is obviously a first year ballot in 2016 (maybe first ever 100% vote getter?) I'll be interested to see what happens in 2013 as well, but Schilling is a shoe-in in my book.
what about 2014 with Glavine, Maddux, and Mussina?

and Griffey will NOT get 100%. I'd bet my life on it.
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Old 01-06-11, 12:27 AM
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Re: MLB 2010-11 Offseason & Hot Stove Thread

I don't see Mussina getting in immediately.

Nobody will get 100% because of a few dolts that won't vote for anybody on the first ballot.
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Old 01-06-11, 12:34 AM
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Re: MLB 2010-11 Offseason & Hot Stove Thread

Originally Posted by cardsfan111 View Post
Adrian Beltre has agreed to a 6-year, $96 million dollar deal with the Rangers.

Food for thought: Beltre has only had 2 seasons out of 12 in which he's hit above .300, driven in 100+ runs, had a .850+ OPS or received MVP votes. Both have been "contract" years ('04 with the Dodgers and last season with the Red Sox). Guess that means the Rangers should expect a big year out of him in 2016.
That's a lot larger contract that I thought he was going to get, considering that most of the interested teams had cooled on him.

I think Schilling gets in due to the postseason heroics. Piazza will get in too as there haven't been that many steroid links to him.

Happy that Bert finally got in after getting so close to the past few years. Of the guys on the list this year, Larkin probably gets in. I wouldn't be suprised at Lee Smith getting in the next few years. I think Jack Morris goes the Blyleven route and has to wait a while seeing his vote percentage inch upward until finally getting enough.

Edgar Martinez and Larry Walker I give good shots at eventually getting in the Hall. I have no idea why Raines vote totals are so low.
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Old 01-06-11, 03:48 AM
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Re: MLB 2010-11 Offseason & Hot Stove Thread

Originally Posted by Quake1028 View Post
Piazza should get in easily, if the writers aren't fucking dumbasses.
Why punish Big Mac and Palmeiro and not everyone else.
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Old 01-06-11, 03:56 AM
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Re: MLB 2010-11 Offseason & Hot Stove Thread

Originally Posted by wildcatlh View Post
Schilling's a guy who's gonna hover in the 30% range for a long time. Don't think he makes it in.

Agreed on Piazza.
Jack Morris an inferior pitcher and has gotten about 50% each time the last 2 years.

If he is sitting in the 30s it will be because of the steroid era.
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Old 01-06-11, 07:42 AM
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Re: MLB 2010-11 Offseason & Hot Stove Thread

I think Mussina and Schilling get in simply because they were good pitchers pitching in the steroid era... Since writers seem hell bent on punishing the wicked 'roiders, these guys will get passes into the hall.
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Old 01-06-11, 07:54 AM
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Re: MLB 2010-11 Offseason & Hot Stove Thread

Originally Posted by FantasticVSDoom View Post
I think Mussina and Schilling get in simply because they were good pitchers pitching in the steroid era... Since writers seem hell bent on punishing the wicked 'roiders, these guys will get passes into the hall.
That's what I'm thinking too. While I don't care about the steroid issue, you certainly have to factor them when judging players against the era. Clemens is a different story though - I would definitely put him in, but the holier-than-thou writers.....
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Old 01-06-11, 08:23 AM
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Re: MLB 2010-11 Offseason & Hot Stove Thread

Originally Posted by Qui Gon Jim View Post
I am a huge Schilling fan. That said, I doubt he ever gets in the hall. He is borderline accomplishment-wise, and his outspoken politics may hurt him as well.
I think Schilling gets in. Stone cold lock.
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Old 01-06-11, 08:36 AM
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Re: MLB 2010-11 Offseason & Hot Stove Thread

Originally Posted by Howie2000 View Post
Why punish Big Mac and Palmeiro and not everyone else.
I punish Palmeiro because I think his numbers don't really tell the story. I saw him a play a lot of games in his prime (with the Orioles) and that guy was the most un-clutch big-name #3/4 hitter I've probably ever seen. In his 5 years with the O's, I honestly cannot recall him winning a game with his bat (he may have technically had game-winning RBI, but if he did, they weren't late in a game). And he sucked in the playoffs.

And given that so many people were putting up big numbers in the era (particularly for the position), he doesn't stand out in my mind.
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Old 01-06-11, 09:17 AM
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Re: MLB 2010-11 Offseason & Hot Stove Thread

I'm not sure why Howie thinks Palmeiro and McGwire are the only ones who are going to be punished. Bagwell would have come a lot closer or gotten in if not for the steroid issue. And for those who say Piazza doesn't have steroid buzz, he has every bit as much as Bags. As for the pitchers, why does everyone assume that pitchers weren't doing roids? Why reward good pitchers of the steroids era?

I think Mussina and Schilling may get in eventually, but not sure. Voters are getting more sophisticated so maybe the sabermetric analyses will show something to help or hurt them.

What will truly be interesting is what happens to Bonds and Clemens, as most people recognize that while they certainly inflated their numbers with steroids, they were already HoFers before they started using. People have their doubts about guys like McGwire or Palmeiro on that one. But will voters acknowledge that?
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Old 01-06-11, 10:47 AM
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Re: MLB 2010-11 Offseason & Hot Stove Thread

Originally Posted by Howie2000 View Post
Why punish Big Mac and Palmeiro and not everyone else.
McGwire is hated more because he broke Maris' HR record, and Palmeiro lied to congress about his steroid use. But, given Bagwell's vote totals, it looks like sluggers in general are going to have a hard time.
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Old 01-06-11, 11:06 AM
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Re: MLB 2010-11 Offseason & Hot Stove Thread

Originally Posted by Red Dog View Post
That's what I'm thinking too. While I don't care about the steroid issue, you certainly have to factor them when judging players against the era. Clemens is a different story though - I would definitely put him in, but the holier-than-thou writers.....
Clemens dug his own grave. He'll get in eventually as baseball records count more than him being a jerk, a liar and (potentially in his case) a convicted criminal. To me it's not that the writers are "hotlier-than-thou" - it's that Clemens is scummier-than-most.
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Old 01-06-11, 11:09 AM
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Re: MLB 2010-11 Offseason & Hot Stove Thread

Ty Cobb was scum of the earth. Yet that doesn't mean I think he shouldn't be a HOFamer. I think writers feel the same.

But like I've always said - steroid use doesn't matter to me so any lying/crimes related to that are obviously a non-issue to me. As for being a jerk, if that's a prerequisite, then the vast majority of players would be disqualified.
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Old 01-06-11, 11:38 AM
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Re: MLB 2010-11 Offseason & Hot Stove Thread

Originally Posted by Red Dog View Post
Ty Cobb was scum of the earth. Yet that doesn't mean I think he shouldn't be a HOFamer. I think writers feel the same.
Ah yes, the Pete Rose HOF defense ... because other cheaters are in the HOF, let's put more in.

I think it's reasonable to have different valid viewpoints about steroids. But, all Roger had to do was follow Andy Pettitte's lead. I wish I could say 'hope it was worth it, Clemens', but I wouldn't mean it.
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Old 01-06-11, 11:49 AM
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Re: MLB 2010-11 Offseason & Hot Stove Thread

You must have never seen my comments on Pete Rose. You'd obviously be surprised.
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