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So who else is going to Pride Real Deal

Old 10-20-06, 08:08 AM
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So who else is going to Pride Real Deal

I will be there. Getting on a plane in a couple of hours. Should be good times. A lot of good matchups that should be exciting. I am also expecting Pride to pull out all the stops with the production so expect lots of lights, fireworks, etc. Can't wait.

Fedor Emelianenko vs. Mark Coleman
Mauricio Rua vs. Kevin Randleman
Dan Henderson vs. Vitor Belfort
Josh Barnett vs. Pawel Nastula
Robbie Lawler vs. Joey Villasenor
Phil Baroni vs. Yosuke Nishijima
Eric Esch vs. Sean O'Haire (or Mark Hunt if he gets there in time)
Kazuhiro Nakamura vs. TBD (how can they not have this filled yet a little more than 24 hours before the show)
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Old 10-20-06, 09:35 AM
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That's not Sean O'Haire the former WWE wrestler, is it? I heard he was going to try MMA, but I'd be shocked if he reached a Pride PPV by now.

I don't know much about Pride (mainly a UFC guy), but I'm surprised their PPVs are $39.99. I was going to give it a shot if it was a bit cheaper.
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Old 10-20-06, 11:43 AM
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Originally Posted by bravesmg
That's not Sean O'Haire the former WWE wrestler, is it? I heard he was going to try MMA, but I'd be shocked if he reached a Pride PPV by now.

I don't know much about Pride (mainly a UFC guy), but I'm surprised their PPVs are $39.99. I was going to give it a shot if it was a bit cheaper.
Yeah, it is. He has one win and one loss right now. He was a last second addition due to Hunt not being able to fight due to visa issues. Not one of the better fights of the night.

Pride is overall better than UFC (I really like both). Give Pride a few viewings and see what you think. This card has a lot of former UFC guys so if you have been following it for a while, then you should know a lot of the names even though you don't follow Pride. Also, since it is their first show in the US, it should be one of their better ones so I recommend getting it as a good introduction to Pride.

Edit: For those of you who didn't know, Eric Esch is aka Butterbean.

Last edited by Ketamine; 10-20-06 at 11:48 AM.
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Old 10-20-06, 01:11 PM
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Watching Fedor fight will sell you on Pride...My only complaint with Pride is that they rarely have title fights, but other than that, they are every bit equal, and many times better than UFC (and Im not one of those who likes to hate on the UFC, Im a big fan of both). I just want to see the fighters from each organization fight each other. And UFC and Pride both have equal blame for the fact that they dont have cross promotions. In fact, the UFC has sent their fighters over there a few times.

Have fun at the fight, I think Im going to get it on PPV. Only thing, is I missed the OWGP PPV last time because it was no where to be found on TWC here in NYC, eventhough it was advertised.
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Old 10-20-06, 01:16 PM
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Originally Posted by bravesmg
That's not Sean O'Haire the former WWE wrestler, is it? I heard he was going to try MMA, but I'd be shocked if he reached a Pride PPV by now.

I don't know much about Pride (mainly a UFC guy), but I'm surprised their PPVs are $39.99. I was going to give it a shot if it was a bit cheaper.

Pride is easily better than the UFC. You should give it a shot.

Last edited by bballing; 10-20-06 at 01:19 PM.
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Old 10-20-06, 04:21 PM
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Haven't watched much PRIDE. Why is it better? Are the fights more entertaining or is the quality of fighters better? I've seen Phil Baroni fight a few times in UFC and he always loses.
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Old 10-20-06, 04:28 PM
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All the Pride stuff they show on FoxSportsNet doesn't appear to be better than UFC. So if they are using that as their tool to garner new MMA fans, it's not working.
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Old 10-20-06, 05:04 PM
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Some updates from wrestlingobserver.com... including one very interesting one.

As of this moment, here is how things stand for the two Pride matches on Saturday night in Las Vegas that are in question.

Results have still not come in for either of the two drug tests that Josh Barnett has taken over the past five days. Both labs are aware they have until 10 a.m. to confirm Barnett as testing clean or he won't be allowed to fight former judo gold medalist Pawel Nastula.

Mark Hunt is in Australia and Pride officials are hopeful his visa situation will be cleared up. They are running low on time. He will have to get into the country and have all medicals and forms done by 9 a.m. tomorrow or he won't be able to fight Butterbean in what would be a boxing match.

As noted all week, former WWE wrestler Sean O'Haire is cleared and ready to go. Also, getting medicals done in Las Vegas at this moment in 2000 Olympic gold medalist Rulon Gardner. This is a shock since Gardner has said he would never fight in Pride, and if there was any chance of it happening, they should have made it happen and have advertised it.

As of this moment:

If Barnett doesn't get cleared, Nastula would face O'Haire.

If Hunt's visa issues aren't cleared up, Butterbean now would most likely face Gardner in an MMA match, but that isn't definite as Pride hasn't made the final call. Gardner is obviously a far greater expense as a sub, and with no publicity, you are deriving no benefit financially from what would have to be well into six figures for a sub.

If both Barnett and Hunt can't fight, then Nastula vs. O'Haire and Buttebean vs. Gardner, both under MMA rules, is what will happen.

Edit: Looks like Barnett's drug test came back negative but Hunt isn't going to make it, so it's going to be O'Hare versus Butterbean

Last edited by WildcatLH; 10-20-06 at 05:09 PM.
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Old 10-20-06, 05:17 PM
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Originally Posted by Deftones
All the Pride stuff they show on FoxSportsNet doesn't appear to be better than UFC. So if they are using that as their tool to garner new MMA fans, it's not working.
Well, they edit the Hell out of those fights on FSN. So, yes, its not a good tool when the US censors wont show guys getting booted in the face, cut, as well as eliminating matches with lots of grappling and sub work.

The level of competition in Pride is much, much better, mainly because of their budget and willingness to have an international cast of fighters from the US, Europe, Japan, and Brazil (Brazil and Japan are the two biggest MMA countires).

That said, I was exicted when the US show was announced but disappointed in the eventual matches and all the rule changes (no 10 minute rounds, no soccer kicks/knees to the head on the ground, no elbows). The matchmaking on the card seriously stinks. Fedor already beat Coleman pretty easily years ago. Henderson, Randleman, Belfort, and Lawler are guys that are, IMO, too hot and cold to get excited about. The rest are mismatches... and Butterbean, who is a joke in boxing and a washout in MMA.
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Old 10-20-06, 05:46 PM
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Originally Posted by slymer
Haven't watched much PRIDE. Why is it better? Are the fights more entertaining or is the quality of fighters better? I've seen Phil Baroni fight a few times in UFC and he always loses.

I don't know where to start. For one, Pride has a ridiculous heavyweight division. Out of the top 10 heavyweights in the world, I would say Pride has at least 7 of them, including the best fighter in the world, Fedor Emelianenko. In comparison, UFC has a terrible heavyweight division.

Pride is stocked with really good fighters at every division, Shogun, Cro Cop, Arona, Fedor's brother Alek, Dan Henderson, Nog brothers, Filho, Gomi, Kang and on and on.

Other differences besides cage vs ring. Pride allows kicking a downed opponent, UFC allows elbows.

Pride also has a different idea on entrances, if that matters to anyone, and they experiment with oddball matchups, at times. For example see Fedor vs 400 pound Zulu, or fighters like Butterbean, and Bob Sapp.

Baroni is an inconsistent, average fighter, nothing special.
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Old 10-20-06, 10:00 PM
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i would love to go see it live, but finances and midterms are standing in my way. its not the greatest card, but it should be a decent event. its too bad hunt is off the card...him vs. butterbean would have been a fun one.
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Old 10-20-06, 10:22 PM
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The fighters in PRIDE are overall at a higher level than the UFC guys. My friends and I are getting the PPV tomorrow night while cooking up an entire filet.
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Old 10-20-06, 11:25 PM
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I don't think Pride is better, because I enjoy the UFC as much. I just wish Pride would catch on a little more here just so there would be incentive for cross promotions. The problem with this card is they are trying to get fighters that US audiences know, so that's why you have Baroni, Butterbean, Hunt, O'Haire...Having Shogun and Fedor will help, Randelman can be good if he is on, and well I think Hendo will go to the UFC if Hughes doesnt move up to middleweight to take on Sylva. Would be nice to have Cro-cop and Wanderlai on the card, but the axe murderer might still be trying to attached his head after those Cro-Cop kicks.
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Old 10-21-06, 12:40 AM
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if pride rules don't get sanctioned in america i hope they never have another event here. it's nice to see some of the fighters, but i don't see Pride putting on any meaningful fights here, and the rules suck. i like the 10-5-5 round format, as well as the judging criteria and knees/kicks on the ground, all of which have been taken away. if they stay, it will probably be like K1 - put together shitty cards in Vegas and save all the real fights for Japan.
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Old 10-21-06, 05:39 PM
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Originally Posted by FantasticVSDoom
Would be nice to have Cro-cop and Wanderlai on the card, but the axe murderer might still be trying to attached his head after those Cro-Cop kicks.
Even if they wanted to, the Nevada State Athletic Commision wouldnt allow Wand to fight so soon after a KO loss like that.

The good of Pride is: The international stable. The money they put into events. The round time dynamic. The knees/stomps/kicks to the head of a downed opponent, which really changes the landscape of the standing and ground fighting. The annual tournament format (every year they have one to two diff weight class tourneys).

The bad of Pride: Weird judging (judges score by criteria, not rounds) which leads to controversial decisions. Poor matchmaking, ranging from inexperienced/newbie/freak fighters agaisnt vets, to too many non-title fights for their belt holders (for instance, Henderson is the WW belt holder, yet he lost his last fight a non-title, tournament match, and now he's fighting Belfort at a higher weight class). Really their ranking system is skewed/non-existent, leading to cards like this one, where they just took name fighters and threw weak opposition at them.
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Old 10-21-06, 06:37 PM
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i would put the judging and matchmaking in the good column. the number of nontitle fights is a bit lame, i admit, but it does lead to some interesting matchups that wouldn't happen otherwise. fedor vs. fujita and goodridge, silva vs. cro cop and fujita, henderson vs. vitor and nogueira, for example. and as far as the judging goes, i've agreed with most of their decisions. they weigh damage and attempting to finish higher than takedowns and control. for the most part, it prevents shitty lay and pray decisions - like ricco vs. nogueira. ricco would have won the fight by UFC rules because he was on top, but he was always active off his back. even though he never came close with any submissions, he was constantly looking for them, while ricco had takedowns and nothing else. or look at ninja vs. henderson. ninja spent a good chunk of the fight on top of hendo, not landing anything or looking for submissions, and then henderson nearly takes ninja's head off in the third round and wins the fight. people talk about that being a shitty decision, but that was absolutely the right call. being on top doesn't equal winning the fight.

and that's the problem with pride coming to america. they're stuck with commission judges and rules. pride's judging criteria isn't perfect, but mma judges here are severely undereducated (cecil peoples, anyone?) and the 10-point must system just doesn't work. look at rounds 1 and 2 of tito vs. forrest. they're a wash on the scorecards, but you can't say they were even at that point.

i'm not trying to make this a ufc vs. pride thing, as i like them both, but i think judging is a much bigger problem here than it is with pride in japan.
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Old 10-21-06, 07:00 PM
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I've watched a bunch of matches on TV, but it still isn't as good as UFC. Of course, UFC isn't as good as UFC use to be. Back in the mid/late 90's UFC was great.

-p
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Old 10-21-06, 09:40 PM
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The matches on TV usually suck. Like a previous poster stated they edit the hell out of the fights. Pride fights IMO are much more strategic...and as others have said, Pride has Fedor, who is just sick.
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Old 10-21-06, 09:42 PM
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So, um yeah, WWE fighters should stick to worked outcomes...
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Old 10-21-06, 11:59 PM
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not a bad night of fights, but nothing real spectacular. henderson vs. vitor was a great fight, though.
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Old 10-22-06, 12:04 AM
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Originally Posted by MahatmaPetey
not a bad night of fights, but nothing real spectacular. henderson vs. vitor was a great fight, though.
Did Fedor look like his usual dominant, ass-kicking self?
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Old 10-22-06, 12:25 AM
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and then some! coleman couldn't get fedor down. his face was a mess after the first round, and he got caught in an armbar about 30 seconds after getting him down in the 2nd. of course he was fighting coleman, but he still looked pretty damn good.

then there was a really awkward moment after the fight when coleman brought his crying daughters into the ring and introduced them to the man who just beat the living hell out of their father.

the fights were fun, but mostly just onesided beatdowns, minus a couple of competetive fights (henderson vs. vitor, and nastula vs. barnett). not that that's necessarily a bad thing, but i would have liked better matchups.
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Old 10-22-06, 09:09 AM
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You know, I dont care about Sylva vs. Lidell...I want to see Fedor in the UFC. I think he could be the man to take MMA here in the US to a new level. He is unreal. I have to give Coleman props for not getting KTFO because those shots Fedor was hitting him with looked like mini-grenades bouncing off his head. I cant wait to see a Fedor vs Cro-Cop rematch.
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Old 10-22-06, 05:42 PM
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It was an okay event. Live they had some kinks, like the long intermission, but it was a packed card that, more or less, kept moving. Matchwise there were no surprises (Natsula being competative I cannot count since Barnett is a little overworked after the OWGP this year). I liked Henderson-Belfort, though really, Belfort didnt bring much offense to the fight. I hope their planned Feb card has better, actually competative matchups.

Coleman and his crying kids was surreal and so perverse I kinda' liked it. I hope Pride pays Coleman enough for their future counseling. Coleman giving Fedor the little post-fight punch was a classic moment.

Pride's blatant Silva calling out Liddell was a punk move. After the fight was first announced in the UFC, they now clearly showed the matchup getting stalled was because they only want it in their organization. I serioulsy doubt they will come to an agreement unless there is some kind of mega-deal trade where each org gives up a champ to fight in the rival org.
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Old 10-22-06, 06:52 PM
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Originally Posted by MahatmaPetey
not a bad night of fights, but nothing real spectacular. henderson vs. vitor was a great fight, though.
Great fight? Vitor didn't show up at all. This could have been the fight of the night and it was one of the worst IMHO.
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