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View Poll Results: What's going to happen?
Torre stays.
0
0%
Torre goes.
0
0%
A-Rod stays.
0
0%
A-Rod goes.
4.55%
Torre stays, A-Rod goes.
25.00%
Torre goes, A-Rod stays.
36.36%
Torre goes. A-Rod goes.
20.45%
Torre stays. A-Rod stays.
13.64%
I think _____, _____ & _____ go.
0
0%
Voters: 44. You may not vote on this poll

So...what do you think George is going to do?

Old 10-09-06, 05:19 AM
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So...what do you think George is going to do?

If you hate the Yankees, please keep your comments out of this thread. Feel free to find one of the many MLB threads that turn into a hate-fest. If you're a fan of baseball, and are even slightly familiar with this whole situation, please comment.

So...as i've been sitting here for the past couple of hours trying to get some reviews done, i've been keeping tabs on this whole "Fire Joe Torre" drama.

After Bill Madden reported his "story", everyone and their cousin has run with it. Dan Graziano from the Star-Ledger wrote this:

Piniella is the last guy who should manage these Yanks
Monday, October 09, 2006

Oh, no. This isn't right at all.

Don't get me wrong. It's kind of nice to see the old man alive and grumpy. It had been so long since George Steinbrenner showed any irrational fury that we were all starting to, you know, kind of think the worst.

But this is no way to wake up.

The very idea of impulsively firing Joe Torre and even more impulsively replacing him with Lou Piniella is so wrong in so many ways that it still sounds like a joke. "Oh, man. If they lose to the Tigers, George is gonna be so mad, he'll fire Torre and bring in Piniella." That's supposed to be a joke about Steinbrenner. It's not supposed to be the thing that actually happens.

Torre's team completely quit on him in the final three games against the Tigers. It was embarrassing and unprecedented. Never before has a Torre team looked so lifeless in so many important games, and he should feel responsible and embarrassed about it.

It's even possible to reach the conclusion that he should be fired.

But if he's to be fired, it shouldn't be like this -- not right away, with the wounds still so fresh and so little thought having been put into it. And certainly not for Lou Piniella, who sounds like the right guy for the job only if you have no idea what it's like in the Yankees clubhouse.

Yankee fans, like Steinbrenner, want a tail-kicker in the manager's office. They believe the pathetic Division Series fold job they just saw would have been impossible under Piniella, who is a fiery tantrum-thrower.

But the key to the Yankees' success under Torre has been the manager's ability to maintain calm. He has established a culture of excellence in the Bronx by not throwing tantrums, because he believes, correctly, that the veteran players he's managing wouldn't respond to them. Lou Piniella is a better in-game tactician than Torre is, but he's just as hard on a bullpen, and he's ill-suited to the current Yankee situation.

Piniella's Tampa Bay teams played hard because he yelled at them, but they were kids who needed to be pushed. His Seattle and Cincinnati teams won because they were groups he helped select -- versatile players and interchangeable lineups that he could mold the way he wanted to.

The Yankees build their teams differently. They bring in stars, heedless of the way they might all get or not get along, and they expect it to work because of the money they spend and the talent they have. There's not enough flexibility on this Yankee roster for Piniella to shine, and taking it apart and building one that would maximize his talents would take years. Years, quite possibly, of not making the playoffs.

So there's all that, and then there's this:

Alex Rodriguez doesn't deserve as much.

Yeah, that's right. All of you out there calling for Torre's head. Have you thought of that?

In the first eight years Torre managed the Yankees, they went to the World Series six times and won four of them. In the three years since Rodriguez brought his mopey, self-centered personality onto the scene, they haven't gone to one World Series. And brutal performances by Rodriguez have been major reasons for the exits.

So now they're going to bring in Rodriguez's favorite manager?

The guy Rodriguez calls late at night to talk about his hitting problems and to whom he absurdly credited his game-winning home run against the Braves back in June?

Alex Rodriguez deserves this? And Joe Torre deserves to be fired?

On what planet does that make sense?

Clearly, it is Alex Rodriguez who must go. Rodriguez is the one who can't make it work in New York, who drags down the team with his whining and his self-flagellation. If he were as hard on Division Series pitching as he is on himself after these losses, the Yankees would right now be making plans to sweep the A's in the ALCS.

Yes, Torre's team quit on him this weekend. But it didn't quit on him in 2005, when the pitching staff was falling apart and it looked as if they might never catch the Red Sox. And it didn't quit on him this year, when it lost Hideki Matsui and Gary Sheffield for huge chunks of the season and trailed the Red Sox throughout the first half. It seems much fairer to measure a manager on what he can do over the course of 162 games than what he can do in a five-game series.

So he hasn't been able to manage Alex Rodriguez or Randy Johnson or Carl Pavano. Considering his track record, that probably says more about those players than it does about him. Those guys have whined and pouted and demanded all kinds of coddling, which they've received, and they still haven't shown they can perform in New York. Joe Torre has. He's the winner. He's the one who's going to the Hall of Fame because of what he's done with the Yankees.

Lou Piniella is not, and he's not the answer.

If George Steinbrenner would sit down, count to 10 and think about it a little, he'd realize that, too.
And in USA Today, Sheff has chimed in...demonstrating what a prick he still is...
New York Yankees slugger Gary Sheffield heard the news Sunday, and snickered, wondering if this was someone's idea of a cruel joke.

"I can't believe they're going to get rid of (Joe) Torre," Sheffield said of the Yankee manager, "I figured they'd be trying to get rid of me and A-Rod (Alex Rodriguez) first.

"It's hard for me to even fathom that somebody would want to trade A-Rod, but I don't see things getting any better for him. It's going to be very difficult for him to come back. Who knows what's going to happen with me."

No one is certain what the fallout will be after the Yankees' stunning first-round departure, courtesy of the Detroit Tigers, but Yankees principal owner George Steinbrenner has never been known for his patience.

"I am deeply disappointed at our being eliminated so early in the playoffs," Steinbrenner said in a statement. "…Rest assured, we will go back to work immediately and try to right this sad failure and provide a championship for the Yankees, as is our goal every year."

The New York Daily News reported Sunday that Torre will be fired and replaced by former Yankee manager Lou Piniella. Piniella, however, said on FOX-TV Sunday that neither he nor his agent have spoken with the Yankees.

Yankee general manager Brian Cashman, when asked about the future of Torre and Rodriguez, said Saturday: ""Why wouldn't they be coming back? That's not something that I'm even thinking about."

Torre, who managed the Yankees to 11 consecutive postseason appearances, has come under scrutiny for the Yankees' latest playoff loss. He benched Sheffield in Game 3 and first baseman Jason Giambi in Game 4 of the playoffs, and caused a firestorm when he demoted Rodriguez to the eighth spot in the batting order in Game 5.

"I think that affected the morale and psyche of the entire team, not just A-Rod," Sheffield said. ""I'm not making any excuses, but everyone was wondering what was going on. It made it a real weird day. You would like to be treated with a little respect, I don't care who you play for.

"We were worrying about all of that stuff, and we still had a game to play. If I'm on the other side, and all of a sudden they're putting Rodriguez eighth and putting me or Jason on the bench, you wonder what's going on. Those guys [the Tigers] were asking me about it. I think it boosted their morale. It gave them confidence they didn't have.

"[Tigers manager] Jim Leyland took advantage of that. He can make you believe anything. He can put a fire under your belt like you never had before in your life.

"Not to make excuses, but we didn't have that."
However, he might just be trying to cover his ass since Newsday reported that
The first shot was fired by Yankees owner George Steinbrenner, who said he believed Sheffield hurt the Yankees' chemistry when he returned from a four-month DL stint after suffering a serious wrist injury.
So...what do you think is going to happen? Who's staying and who's going? Is it any one person's fault? I've read (on NY Post's site, I think) that someone thinks it's Jeter's fault for not sticking up for A-Rod (like he did for Giambi) which created a tension-filled atmosphere in the clubhouse.
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Old 10-09-06, 05:34 AM
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I dont see why people who hate the Yankees are excluded from this discussion.

Anyways, I think Torre wont be fired. There seems to be a lot of backlash. If George wants a scapegoat, he can look in the mirror. He needs to stop meddling and let Cashman do his thing. Bill Belichick said it best: "It's not about collecting talent, it's about building a team."

I think A-Rod will be gone. Texas is paying a bunch of his contract, so I think he's movable. He should get a great return.

They should be trying to get Zito and that Japanese guy. Johnson and Mussina are too old and Jaret Wright isnt going to cut it.
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Old 10-09-06, 06:40 AM
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Torre and A-Rod both go. Jeter becomes player-manager. They start going after team players again, such as Speizio, who is given a two-year contract to play first/third.
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Old 10-09-06, 06:48 AM
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I just don't understand why the Yankees haven't learned their lesson yet. They won championships in the late 90's by building a great team through their minor leagues. As soon as they started trying to buy veterans and trade away young talent for other overpaid vets they started down their road to post season failure. They also have a bloated payroll to go with it.

George needs to dump several of the over the hill vets and start building it again the way he did in the late 90's. I liked the Yankees of the late 90's, but I have grown to hate this attitude of buying a championship that has gone on for years and am thrilled to see them piss that much money away again this year.

Cut the payroll, get younger and start building a real team instead of a bunch of overpaid individuals.
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Old 10-09-06, 08:07 AM
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I would fire Cashman, let Torre leave if he wants to. Get rid of A-Rod, Giambi, Sheffield, and Randy Johnson for pitching and young prospects. If Bernie is fine being a pinch hitter, occasional DH, keep him. Everyone else can stay.
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Old 10-09-06, 09:05 AM
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would keep everyone except Pavano, Sheff, Randy, and Jaret.... i say bring up philip hughes

this offseason should be only about pitching....STARTING PITCHING
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Old 10-09-06, 09:08 AM
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What I want to know is, what CAN they do? Don't they have everyone except Moose and Shef and a few others under contract already?

And, I hate the Yankees and am completely ignoring your request that Yankee haters keep out of the thread. Good luck with that.
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Old 10-09-06, 09:36 AM
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The problem is Cashman doesn't really have any authority. He can just be overrided by Steinbrenner. Get rid of him, the real problem, and the team can go back to winning.
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Old 10-09-06, 09:57 AM
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no but seriously.... without yankee haters saying no matter what they suck.... offense for next year consists of

Damon
Jeter
AROD
Giambi
Cano
Posada
Matsui
Abreu
???

The one more hitter for their lineup...

starting rotation is another thing

Wang
???
???
???
???

Isnt johnson on his option year....wright i think comes back no matter what but still sucks... if Pavano doesnt fall off the bench and break his neck, god knows what he will be and mussina is in his option year.... they need starting pitching.....with only Zito and a few others being available via free agency, god knows what will happen
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Old 10-09-06, 09:59 AM
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Originally Posted by chrisih8u
I dont see why people who hate the Yankees are excluded from this discussion.

i think because sometimes some yankee haters... not all... but some just come in and say "oh they suck and will always suck"
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Old 10-09-06, 10:11 AM
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Originally Posted by darkside
I just don't understand why the Yankees haven't learned their lesson yet. They won championships in the late 90's by building a great team through their minor leagues. As soon as they started trying to buy veterans and trade away young talent for other overpaid vets they started down their road to post season failure. They also have a bloated payroll to go with it.

George needs to dump several of the over the hill vets and start building it again the way he did in the late 90's. I liked the Yankees of the late 90's, but I have grown to hate this attitude of buying a championship that has gone on for years and am thrilled to see them piss that much money away again this year.

Cut the payroll, get younger and start building a real team instead of a bunch of overpaid individuals.
That's exactly what Yankees need to do.
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Old 10-09-06, 10:58 AM
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Here is what the Yankees will do this off-season:

1) Joe Torre will have his contract bought out and the Yankees will replace Torre with Lou Piniella as the new manager.

2) Alex Rodriguez will be traded to the Angels for a number of Angels pitchers on the main team and on the Angels' AAA affiliate. This will allow the Yankees to phase out both Randy Johnson and Mike Mussina within the next two years.
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Old 10-09-06, 11:03 AM
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FWIW, the spin coming out of The Bronx this AM is that IF Sweet Lou is named, then it's more likely that Slappy stays put (as opposed to him definitely being gone if Torre somehow keeps the job). It was previously reported that ARod was definitely gone even if Lou came in......
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Old 10-09-06, 11:14 AM
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I understood the original poster to mean not that Yankee haters should not post, but to keep the off-topic Yankee hating posts out. There are plenty of threads for that.
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Old 10-09-06, 11:16 AM
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Too many poll choices overlap each other.
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Old 10-09-06, 11:34 AM
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P-D scribe Rick Hummel threw Mattingly's name into the mix this morning on St. Louis radio. How much is his name being tossed around in the NY media?
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Old 10-09-06, 11:41 AM
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Originally Posted by Deftones
The problem is Cashman doesn't really have any authority. He can just be overrided by Steinbrenner. Get rid of him, the real problem, and the team can go back to winning.
Bingo. Steinbrenner just needs to shut the fuck up, sign the checks, and let Cashman do his job.

The Yankees would be terribly foolish to get rid of Torre, as he's one of the best managers in the game. The Yankees didn't lose the series because of managerial mistakes, they lost because the collection of high-priced talent that they bought decided to lay an egg for 3 straight games.

They've also got to the point where the team has a collective look on their faces as if they expect to win and that they shouldn't have to work all that hard at it. Compare the fire, excitement, and passion that was present in the Detroit dugout. Then compare it to the Yankee dugout. Two completely different scenes.
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Old 10-09-06, 11:45 AM
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Originally Posted by El Scorcho
The Yankees would be terribly foolish to get rid of Torre, as he's one of the best managers in the game. The Yankees didn't lose the series because of managerial mistakes, they lost because the collection of high-priced talent that they bought decided to lay an egg for 3 straight games.
I don't consider Torre to be one of the best managers in the game, he's above average but nothing special. It would be a mistake, however, to blame him for their postseason collapses, and to expect different results under Piniella.

Does the Yankee's FO learn from their mistakes? Or should we expect Barry Zito to be wearing pinstripes next year?
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Old 10-09-06, 11:45 AM
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Torre goes.
Piniella is hired.
A-Rod stays since he and Piniella are "pals".
Yankees still don't win a World Series in 2007.
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Old 10-09-06, 11:47 AM
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Originally Posted by Shannon Nutt
Torrie goes.
Piniella is hired.
A-Rod stays since he and Piniella are "pals".
And the Yankees still lose because the pitching staff will still be garbage. Sounds good to me.
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Old 10-09-06, 11:47 AM
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Originally Posted by Birrman54
I don't consider Torre to be one of the best managers in the game, he's above average but nothing special. It would be a mistake, however, to blame him for their postseason collapses, and to expect different results under Piniella.

Does the Yankee's FO learn from their mistakes? Or should we expect Barry Zito to be wearing pinstripes next year?
Have you seen what managers are in the game? Being above average easily makes him one of the best in the game.
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Old 10-09-06, 11:59 AM
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Sorry but he has taken the team to playoffs for 11 years.... they would be dumb to let him go.... but i wouldnt be surprised... they got pavano...
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Old 10-09-06, 12:03 PM
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Originally Posted by raven56706
Sorry but he has taken the team to playoffs for 11 years.... they would be dumb to let him go.... but i wouldnt be surprised... they got pavano...
Anyone could take the Yanks to the playoffs. Torre is a great ppl manager a la Phil Jackson, but when it comes to X's & O's he's terrible.

Plus, he's too nice of a guy. He will NEVER tell a pitcher to throw at someone. The pitcher has to take it upon himself to do so to protect his teammates.

Torre is a great guy and has been great for the Yanks but I think that it's time for a change.
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Old 10-09-06, 12:07 PM
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Originally Posted by Dabaomb

Torre is a great guy and has been great for the Yanks but I think that it's time for a change.
I would absolutely agree, but the change needs to be made at the ownership level, not the coaching level.
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Old 10-09-06, 12:08 PM
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Originally Posted by Dabaomb
Anyone could take the Yanks to the playoffs. Torre is a great ppl manager a la Phil Jackson, but when it comes to X's & O's he's terrible.
Examples please.

I've always thought that he was also pretty damn good at the X's & O's portion of the game. At least that's what Tim McCarver has been telling me for a decade now.
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