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Yankees Get Another One

Old 12-24-02, 03:40 PM
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Yankees Get Another One

http://espn.go.com/mlb/news/2002/1224/1482132.html

Details: 4 years, $32 million

I'm amazed that a team with Pettitte, Weaver, Wells, Mussina and Hernandez, AND Clemens waiting in the wings, has the brass (and cash) to go get this guy.

Hideki Matsui and Jose Contreras certainly have a lot of "earning" to do.
Old 12-24-02, 04:39 PM
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I wonder how old he really is. He looks pretty old.
Old 12-24-02, 04:43 PM
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"We couldn't, the right word is we wouldn't, sacrifice the opportunity to sign these talents on the basis of reducing payroll first,'' Yankees general manager Brian Cashman said.

I respect that attitude.

Even if they have the money to spend it is still nice that some teams actually want to compete and take chances even if it costs them some profit.
Old 12-25-02, 12:05 AM
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Hopefully they got the next Livan Hernandez.
Old 12-25-02, 12:24 AM
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I find it odd that they went after both Matsui and Contreras. Both are getting sizable paychecks for accomplishing jack squat. Why not just trade the Braves a bag of balls and get Millwood over Contreras?

Still, I guess it will help them in these markets when the next big name comes around.

Still, leaves a bitter taste to see the rich get richer while the main competitors (Oakland, Atlanta) see some of their best players walking away.
Old 12-25-02, 12:11 PM
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This is just one of the reasons I don't watch Baseball, too many teams buying talent while others sell their talent to the highest bidder because they can't afford to put a competitive team on the field without going bankrupt.

Atleast with the NFL, NBA, NHL you have a chance to be competitive (except the Bengals) but with Baseball you have teams that are out of the playoff race before the season even starts. My family is from Boston so if the Red Sox (another team with lots of money even though they can't seem to win) ever win the world series again I will have to fly back to Boston for the party, but aside from the curse being broken I will just stick to the sports that are actually competitive.

Kind of sucks being a Dolphins fan whos entire family is from Boston, but I guess it is better than being a Yankees fan from Boston.

Last edited by bluntman72; 12-25-02 at 12:14 PM.
Old 12-25-02, 01:07 PM
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Don't they have a salary cap? I thought thats why they went on strike. Thats a horribly uneven sport, everyone should watch football where a new team is champion every year.
Old 12-25-02, 01:20 PM
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Originally posted by lesterlong
Don't they have a salary cap? I thought thats why they went on strike. Thats a horribly uneven sport, everyone should watch football where a new team is champion every year.
2000 - NY Yankees
2001 - AZ D'Backs
2002 - Anaheim Angels

Uneven?
Old 12-25-02, 03:43 PM
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The yankees payroll is now at an estimated $140 million, well over the $117 million established for the luxury tax. The Yanks are screwed b/c they have a ton of high priced players that no team will be willing to accept.
Old 12-25-02, 05:34 PM
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Originally posted by Ranger02
2000 - NY Yankees
2001 - AZ D'Backs
2002 - Anaheim Angels

Uneven?
Not a bad point, but I think 2002 was the only true unpredictable year. 2001 was Dbacks vs. Yanks. 2000, the Yanks won it all. The Yankees have been dominating baseball in the last 6 or 7 years. And a lot of the reason for that is payroll. Similarly, Atlanta dominated much of the 90's because of the ability to spend. Of course, people will argue their farm systems were excellent, which is true, but the reason they were able to keep their players and add new ones was their high payroll.

Football is 100% unpredictable, even the regular season. One never knows how well any team will do. Teams go from last place to first place. That just doesn't happen in baseball.
Old 12-25-02, 05:45 PM
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Originally posted by bluntman72
This is just one of the reasons I don't watch Baseball, too many teams buying talent while others sell their talent to the highest bidder because they can't afford to put a competitive team on the field without going bankrupt.

Atleast with the NFL, NBA, NHL you have a chance to be competitive (except the Bengals) but with Baseball you have teams that are out of the playoff race before the season even starts. My family is from Boston so if the Red Sox (another team with lots of money even though they can't seem to win) ever win the world series again I will have to fly back to Boston for the party, but aside from the curse being broken I will just stick to the sports that are actually competitive.

Kind of sucks being a Dolphins fan whos entire family is from Boston, but I guess it is better than being a Yankees fan from Boston.
I'd argue the NHL is a lot like the MLB, more so than like the NBA or NFL. Although the NHL isn't nearly as bad as MLB, it will still hurt smaller teams like Edmonton which routinely gives away good players because they can't afford them.
Old 12-25-02, 10:09 PM
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I hope the Yanks don't sign Clemens. They need to trade El Duque too.
Old 12-26-02, 12:21 AM
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I wonder when the Yankees' payroll will reach $200 million
Old 12-26-02, 07:56 AM
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The luxury tax is a joke compared to the salary cap in the NFL.
Old 12-26-02, 02:59 PM
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You do wonder what the Yanks will do with their staff next year. Assuming they sign Clemens which seems like a safe assumption I'm guessing the starting staff is:

Clemens
Mussina
Pettitte
Conteras
Wells

Which leaves...
Weaver
El Duque
Hitchcock in the bullpen

Combined with the salaries of Karsay and Rivera, that's a lot of $$$$. But they got some decent prices on Mussina and likely Clemens so I guess it could be worse.
Old 12-26-02, 03:16 PM
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I love it. A nice F U to the Luxury Tax. While I will root against the Yankees in nearly every conceivable scenario, I respect the way they do business. Smart business decisions and huge fan support gives them the freedom to do these things. They also take chances ... expensive ones. These may be stupid moves ... maybe not ... but I like that they're not running for the hills after all the whiney bitch owners got their way crying over their inability to run a business properly.

das
Old 12-26-02, 04:04 PM
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Originally posted by das Monkey
I love it. A nice F U to the Luxury Tax. While I will root against the Yankees in nearly every conceivable scenario, I respect the way they do business. Smart business decisions and huge fan support gives them the freedom to do these things. They also take chances ... expensive ones. These may be stupid moves ... maybe not ... but I like that they're not running for the hills after all the whiney bitch owners got their way crying over their inability to run a business properly.

das
Amen.

I wish that the MLB would contract at least four teams and get some of the AAAA ballclubs out of baseball.

The Yankees also develop talent and make the most of what they have - even if it is the best hand in baseball. It's not like the other teams are owned by middle-class families. If they don't want to spend the necessary money to compete, they don't belong.
Old 12-26-02, 08:24 PM
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Originally posted by das Monkey
I love it. A nice F U to the Luxury Tax. While I will root against the Yankees in nearly every conceivable scenario, I respect the way they do business. Smart business decisions and huge fan support gives them the freedom to do these things. They also take chances ... expensive ones. These may be stupid moves ... maybe not ... but I like that they're not running for the hills after all the whiney bitch owners got their way crying over their inability to run a business properly.

das
I agree with the F U to the Luxury Tax somewhat. It's cool that they're going after players that they think it will help the team, even though it will increase their payroll. The problem I have is the raise in ticket prices they did a couple of months ago.
Old 12-26-02, 09:58 PM
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Believe it or not, I never saw it the way you guys are describing it.

...and i'm a Yankee fan!

I suppose the major problem I have is management's treatment of some players.

I didn't like Georgie's handling of the Tino Martinez situation. [I was also hoping for a Oakland/St. Louis series -- which would've been poetic justice]. And from what i'm reading, I don't like the way Stanton was dismissed. [and i'm not even a Stanton fan...]

But you definitely guys are right.

Also, let's not forget that the fans are somewhat accountable too. Let's not try waiting until the team makes it to the playoffs &/or world series...cough, Arizona, cough, Anaheim...before giving them support, going to the games, etc...
Old 12-26-02, 10:25 PM
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I didn't like losing Tino, but when you get a Giambi as a replacement, it's very easy to forgive.

As for the Stanton situation, I don't think it's a good move. They replaced a 35 years old reliever with a 36 years old. Sure, Hammond's stat is great in 2002, but that was only 1 season and he was away from baseball for 4 years before 2002!
Old 12-26-02, 11:29 PM
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Originally posted by zuffy
I didn't like losing Tino, but when you get a Giambi as a replacement, it's very easy to forgive.
Yeah, but IMO Tino was a better fielder than Giambi. [DEFINITELY a better base runner -- which is probably why he tries/hits home runs at all his at bats -- but I digress] Giambi's ego didn't allow him to come to the Yanks as a DH. Though, as I type this, i'm sure Georgie woulda put the [then] golden boy Johnson at first anyways...
Old 12-27-02, 07:56 AM
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Originally posted by Ralph Wiggum
Amen.

I wish that the MLB would contract at least four teams and get some of the AAAA ballclubs out of baseball.

The Yankees also develop talent and make the most of what they have - even if it is the best hand in baseball. It's not like the other teams are owned by middle-class families. If they don't want to spend the necessary money to compete, they don't belong.

I agree about contraction.

However, you still have to realize that this is a business. These are not hobbies. If the other clubs want to compete with the Yankees they have to spend spend spend. If they do this, they will lose millions because they don't come close to generating the revenue that the Yankees do and unless the cities they represent triple or quadruple in population, they never will. Steinbrenner would not be spending this kind of money if he did not make it. The system is set up in a way where the Yankees will always generate the big revenues. Kudos to George for not pocketing a huge profit - he could if he wanted to.

Unless the other owners want to lose lots of money, they cannot touch the Yankees when it comes to spending. There are other aspects to building a successful franchise, but it is clear that the Yankees have a big head start over everyone else.
Old 12-27-02, 08:46 AM
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Have to agree with most here and I hate the Yankees. You cannot blame General George for playing within the rules. Face it, the guy hates to lose and will do ANYTHING to win but MLB is screwed and the luxury tax only hurts those who do not have the money. The Yankees are very rich and can probably afford any fines they are faced with.

Agree that there has to be some teams axed. Fewer teams would make baseball a much better product.

Also, I thought Tino was a great Yankee 1st baseman.

Any word that Clemens may go back to the Red Sox.
Old 12-27-02, 02:43 PM
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Originally posted by Rogue588
I didn't like Georgie's handling of the Tino Martinez situation. [I was also hoping for a Oakland/St. Louis series -- which would've been poetic justice]. And from what i'm reading, I don't like the way Stanton was dismissed. [and i'm not even a Stanton fan...]
But the handling of the Tino situation is basically why the Yankees are successful. Tino may be a good guy, he's vastly overpaid at $10 million per year he's getting.

Signing a vastly superior player in Giambi makes the team better, and it also allows the team more money to sign pitching. Giambi makes more than Tino, but having $10 million of dead weight with Martinez in the line-up means they'll have to spend to get more offense and then spend even more for pitching.

I admire Steinbrenner for going for everything and not falling under the "we're broke, poor us" motto the owners have been pushing. However, one has to understand that even now the Yanks will still make tons of money.

A team like the Diamondbacks, which can't support a huge payroll and goes into debt to win is so much more impressive to me. They really went for it. The Yanks? Well they'll make less money than before, but they still make oodles of cash. One less ivory backscratcher I guess...

The Yanks win partly because they do make good decisions. However there are teams that I believe that have made better decisions over the years (Oakland and Houston for example) and don't win in large part because they can't afford their better players. I can't help but imagine what Oakland would have been last year with their line-up AND Giambi, Damon, and Isringhausen.

The Yanks should win. Not only due they have the advantage at the major league level, but with the salaries the top prospects get, most teams pass on them too. And some of the best prospects never are even in the draft. Among the Yankees, Jeter was a draft pick, but Rivera, Soriano, Williams, and so forth weren't ever in the draft. Not to say they bought those players too, but the extra money they have for signing bonuses and scouting certainly can't hurt.

Still the problem is in the rules, and thus with baseball and not the Yankees. The new system in place is better than the older one, but I still don't see how it helps that much. Some teams will always have huge advantages over others. And that isn't true in the NBA or the NFL.
Old 12-27-02, 05:10 PM
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Teams have to make an effort to market and grow the audience for the sport. Obviously, teams in N.Y. and L.A. have an advantage, but if they don't put out a decent product people aren't going to come. The Florida teams are in large markets and still manage to embarass the game.

Seattle was a small market team for years, but with some good decisions and bit of luck (A-Rod, Junior, Johnson) they expand their market and compete with the big boys. A lot of the midwest teams never adapted after the 80s and have fallen apart. I have a hard time believing that the baseball market in St. Louis is inherently better than the one in Kansas City. Detroit is a great sports town, but the Tigers are still garbage.

It all starts with the owner and front office.

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