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I am an angry Redskins fan!

Old 10-21-02, 08:23 AM
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I am an angry Redskins fan!

If the season continues to slide away from the Redskins, look for coach Steve Spurrier to seek more input into personnel moves in 2003, ESPN.com's Len Pasquarelli reported. Spurrier and staff now realize they don't have a very good roster and feel they were sold a bill of goods on the quality of some players.
http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/clubhouse?team=was

Who has been sold a bill of goods? I am a season ticket holder. The Redskins are 9-10 at home in the last three years. This is embarrasing to watch.


Steve Spurrier ripped his team after Sunday's loss to New Orleans. "I can't watch this and Redskins fans can't watch this," Spurrier said. "They're not going to pay good money to watch a bunch of guys play like we did today.
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/foo...ins/index.html

So you are telling me to drop my tickets? I am beginning to think you are right. I wonder when the guy will call me to upgrade me seats, can't wait for that!

Steve Spurrier is mad as hell, and you get the feeling he's not going to take it anymore.
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/foo...ns_closerlook/

No he's not mad. Third and inches and he throws it down the field. Fourth and inches and he tells the kid to sneak it? Clueless.

How this guy was ever a success is beyond me.

Penalties, fumbles, penalties, special teams mistakes, sacks, audibles at the line worth two timeouts, two play challenges that were beyond absurd.

In just five games, Spurrier has already used three starting quarterbacks and four starting receivers
While nearly giving up on the running game. There is no consistency, there is no game plan.

Hello Dan? Anyone there?

Bah!!!!!!!
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Old 10-21-02, 08:30 AM
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So are you blaming everything on Steve Spurrier? Give the guy a break; it's his first season in the NFL. Did you think he was going to turnaround the franchise in one season?

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Old 10-21-02, 08:33 AM
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Originally posted by immortal_zeus
So are you blaming everything on Steve Spurrier? Give the guy a break; it's his first season in the NFL. Did you think he was going to turnaround the franchise in one season?

Four head coaches in three years. Big talk about a new system, big hype about his record.

Yes I am blaming him, I can blame him for lousy play calling and for poor game decisions. He is amazingly transparent with his choice of plays.
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Old 10-21-02, 08:38 AM
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Originally posted by immortal_zeus
So are you blaming everything on Steve Spurrier? Give the guy a break; it's his first season in the NFL. Did you think he was going to turnaround the franchise in one season?

He did make some awful play calls in yesterday's loss to the Pack. For instance, on a 3rd and 1 he had the ball thrown long, (instead of handing it off to Steven Davis who got them to 3rd and 1 in the first place) and on the ensuing 4th and 1 he tried a quarterback sneak against Gilbert Brown. dumb dumb dumb

Spurrier was handily out-coached in every possible way yesterday.

The Packers D manhandled the Redskins transparent offense.
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Old 10-21-02, 09:15 AM
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Okay, so he throws long on 3rd and 1...he's an idiot if they don't get the first down, but he's a genius if they do, right?

Running on 3rd and 1 is more transparent than throwing on 3rd and 1, IMHO. Clearly, he thought he could catch the Packers napping. So he was wrong. Big deal. Guys like Spurrier and Mike Martz are going to be called idiots if they fail and geniuses if they succeed. They have their own way of doing things and it has proven to work for them in the past.

I'm not trying to defend Spurrier, but I am trying to get you to realize that his acclimation to the NFL isn't going to happen overnight. Let the man make some mistakes for crying out loud. That's the only way to learn.

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Old 10-21-02, 09:37 AM
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Okay, so he throws long on 3rd and 1...he's an idiot if they don't get the first down, but he's a genius if they do, right?
Wrong.

Running on 3rd and 1 is more transparent than throwing on 3rd and 1, IMHO. Clearly, he thought he could catch the Packers napping. So he was wrong. Big deal.
Use the talent you have, establish consistency and sustain the drive. Is running on third and inches transparent? Yes. I'll take that any day with Stephen Davis and a chance to get a first down.
Clearly it is a big deal since the Redskins are 2-4.

I'm not trying to defend Spurrier, but I am trying to get you to realize that his acclimation to the NFL isn't going to happen overnight
Interesting! I wonder if Dan Snyder feels the same way. That did not work for Marty Schottenheimer.
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Old 10-21-02, 09:38 AM
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Originally posted by immortal_zeus
I'm not trying to defend Spurrier, but I am trying to get you to realize that his acclimation to the NFL isn't going to happen overnight. Let the man make some mistakes for crying out loud. That's the only way to learn.

I know it's not going to happen overnight, but he's had 7 weeks to figure out that his passing game isn't as good as he thinks it is.
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Old 10-21-02, 09:42 AM
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That Redskins roster needs some work. There are a few studs like Davis and Arrington, and actually the defense played pretty well yesterday - they just wore down after the fiftieth fumble.

The rookie QB is not ready, and the O line is very inconsistent. Receivers - could really use a big time go-to guy.

The Skins have lost to Phillie, San Fran, New Orleans and Green Bay. That's the cream of the NFC. I wouldn't panic (yet). Yeah, it means they aren't at that level, but they also aren't in the league basement.

Oh - I do agree the sneak was a dumb call. That was almost a full yard to go on 4th down. You should only use the sneak when you need a foot or so at most, especially when you've got a Gilbert Brown or a Ted Washington or one of those other active 350+ pounders in your way.
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Old 10-21-02, 09:49 AM
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The Skins have lost to Phillie, San Fran, New Orleans and Green Bay. That's the cream of the NFC. I wouldn't panic (yet). Yeah, it means they aren't at that level, but they also aren't in the league basement.
Here is the problem. The Redskins could have beaten San Fran, New Orleans and Green Bay. The great teams find a way to win.

If they do that they are 5-1 and everyone thinks Spurrier is the second coming. As it is the Redskins are beating themselves as much as being beaten. We can't protect a rookie quarterback, cant hold onto the ball and then wonder why the defense is not doing its job. If Ramsey is not the starter next week who is? Wee, I get to go to Fed Ex field on a Sunday night to watch the Redskins get embarrased again.

I am not panicing, I am resigning myself to the fact that we will be in this situation until Dan Snyder fires this guy and brings in a new coach to keep the chaos at a fever pitch. When will that happen, I am afraid not this year at least.
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Old 10-21-02, 10:12 AM
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Originally posted by Brian Shannon
Here is the problem. The Redskins could have beaten San Fran, New Orleans and Green Bay. The great teams find a way to win.
Again, you are expecting way too much way too early.

Originally posted by Brian Shannon
If they do that they are 5-1 and everyone thinks Spurrier is the second coming. As it is the Redskins are beating themselves as much as being beaten. We can't protect a rookie quarterback, cant hold onto the ball and then wonder why the defense is not doing its job. If Ramsey is not the starter next week who is? Wee, I get to go to Fed Ex field on a Sunday night to watch the Redskins get embarrased again.
The interior of the Skins line sucks. That's not the coach's fault.

The defense is not playing anywhere near its potential. That's Marvin Lewis' fault. Spurrier lets Lewis take care of all the defensive responsibility.

If you think the team sucks so bad, save yourself the trip to Fed Ex field and give the tickets away or sell them. I'm sure somebody who isn't so down on the team would appreciate watching a game.

Originally posted by Brian Shannon
I am not panicing, I am resigning myself to the fact that we will be in this situation until Dan Snyder fires this guy and brings in a new coach to keep the chaos at a fever pitch. When will that happen, I am afraid not this year at least.
If you're not panicking, why are you so adamant that Spurrier gets fired? Sounds like panicking to me!

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Old 10-21-02, 10:16 AM
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Originally posted by immortal_zeus
Did you think he was going to turnaround the franchise in one season?
You mean like Marty Schottenheimer?
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Old 10-21-02, 10:29 AM
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The defense is not playing anywhere near its potential. That's Marvin Lewis' fault. Spurrier lets Lewis take care of all the defensive responsibility.
The Redskins defense is currently ranked 11th. Ahead of the Packers, the Raiders, the 49ers, the Saints and many others. The defense shares little of the blame. As you point out that is not Spurrier's responsibility.

The interior of the Skins line sucks. That's not the coach's fault
So who is to blame here? The General Manager?

If you're not panicking, why are you so adamant that Spurrier gets fired?
This is why.

At this point, the question wasn't if the Redskins could mount a comeback but whether Ramsey would start the next game. "You give me an all-pro quarterback, and we won't have to fiddle around," said Spurrier when asked why he was contemplating a switch. "I don't like to do this."
Is Spurrier a coach or a glorified offensive coordinator? Gosh maybe they should just give him the NFC title as well.
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Old 10-21-02, 10:32 AM
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Originally posted by DarkElf
You mean like Marty Schottenheimer?
Now why would Dan Snyder want a proven coach with a proven track record?

With 153 regular-season wins in 15 and a half seasons as an NFL head coach, Schottenheimer ranks second among active coaches in career wins only to Atlanta’s Dan Reeves, who has 178 wins in 21 seasons. Schottenheimer’s regular-season winning percentage of .621 ranks fourth among active coaches with two or more seasons in the NFL. Only St. Louis’ Mike Martz (.750), Green Bay’s Mike Sherman (.656) and Baltimore’s Brian Billick (.625) have winning percentages higher than Schottenheimer’s.Schottenheimer, 58, has led his teams to the playoffs 11 times, more than any other active NFL coach. Since 1960, only four coaches have done it more; Don Shula (19), Tom Landry (18), Chuck Noll (12) and Bud Grant (12). All four have been enshrined in the Pro Football Hall of Fame.

His 153 regular-season wins are 10th on the NFL’s all-time list and he’s tied for fifth in league history with 11 playoff appearances.

From 1986-97 as head coach of the Browns and Chiefs, he led his teams to 12 straight winning seasons and 10 trips to the playoffs. He has led six of his teams to division titles, including the Browns in 1985, ‘86 and ‘87, and the Chiefs in 1993, ‘95 and ‘97. Including the playoffs, Schottenheimer has a combined record of 158-104-1 (.601) as an NFL head coach.
Good call Dan!
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Old 10-21-02, 10:46 AM
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Originally posted by Brian Shannon
Now why would Dan Snyder want a proven coach with a proven track record?

Good call Dan!
Hey, _we're_ very happy Dan ditched this great coach.

I've been a Redskin hater, so I'm happy they suck, but I'm sorry for the Redskin fans here.
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Old 10-21-02, 10:48 AM
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I said back in January that it was a huge mistake letting Schotty go. He is now 14-4 over his last 18 games.

I am willing to give Spurrier time to build this team. I think his system can work. Unfortunately, no system will work where the QB gets sacked 6 times a game and pressured on every play. I agree that he has to stick with the rookie though - let him learn. Frankly, 2-4 is exactly where I expected the Skins to be. Brian - I agree that they could be 5-1.

I assign blame for the Skins being 2-4 solely to Daniel Snyder, aka Napoleon. He hired Spurrier having known full well what coaching upheavel can do to a team. He gave a ton of money to Trotter (which I thought was good at time, but clearly he is not worth that kind of money) when they should have been spending money on quality offensive guards.
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Old 10-21-02, 10:55 AM
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I am willing to give Spurrier time to build this team. I think his system can work
Perhaps. I too was very dissappointed to see Marty fired.

I have been a Redskins fan since 1969. I am more than willing to support my team and live through the cycles. This however is simply becoming maddening.
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Old 10-21-02, 11:08 AM
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Originally posted by Brian Shannon
The Redskins defense is currently ranked 11th. Ahead of the Packers, the Raiders, the 49ers, the Saints and many others. The defense shares little of the blame. As you point out that is not Spurrier's responsibility.
11th is decent, but they're still underachieving. You can't honestly think that the best that defense can do is be 11th. Well, maybe. They do have some quality players on that defense...

Originally posted by Brian Shannon
So who is to blame here? The General Manager?
Who handles personnel decisions? For the most part, Spurrier is playing with the cards that he was dealt. Sure, he made the push for some offseason acquisitions (most notably, his former Gator players), but you can't expect a rookie NFL coach to come in right away and totally fudge up the team chemistry by making wholesale personnel changes left and right. If he drafts a bunch of Florida offensive players in the draft this year and overlooks the needs of the offensive line, defensive line, wide receiver, and secondary (safeties) then bash him all you want. For now, he's doing what he can with what he's got.

Originally posted by Brian Shannon
Is Spurrier a coach or a glorified offensive coordinator? Gosh maybe they should just give him the NFC title as well.
Like I keep saying, it's too early to judge. At least it is for me. Maybe not for you, but for me. I'm by no means a Redskins fan or a Spurrier fan, but I think you're jumping the gun a bit. Still, you have the right to your opinion...

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Old 10-21-02, 11:13 AM
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Originally posted by immortal_zeus

Who handles personnel decisions? For the most part, Spurrier is playing with the cards that he was dealt.

Spurrier handles the offense on personnel - he brought in all of the Gators so you can clearly fault him for those decisions - well at least J.Green, R.Anthony, and Woeful.

The rest of the personnel decisions are made by Snyder, Cerrato, and Mendes. The funny thing is that Spurrier wanted to go for an offensive lineman in the first round but the committee really wanted Ramsey.
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Old 10-21-02, 11:27 AM
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Originally posted by Red Dog
Spurrier handles the offense on personnel - he brought in all of the Gators so you can clearly fault him for those decisions - well at least J.Green, R.Anthony, and Woeful.

Don't forget Chris Doering.

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Old 10-21-02, 11:54 AM
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Originally posted by immortal_zeus

Who handles personnel decisions? For the most part, Spurrier is playing with the cards that he was dealt.
But the cards dealt to him were good ones, only they don't fit his mold. The Redskins looked like a classic NFC East team: solid defense and good running game. If Marty had stayed on, I think you would be looking at a 9 or 10 win season from the Skins. But Spurrier will have to completely rehaul the lineup, which is why you won't see the Redskins make a serious run for another two years.
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Old 10-21-02, 11:57 AM
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Originally posted by Yancey
But the cards dealt to him were good ones, only they don't fit his mold. The Redskins looked like a classic NFC East team: solid defense and good running game. If Marty had stayed on, I think you would be looking at a 9 or 10 win season from the Skins. But Spurrier will have to completely rehaul the lineup, which is why you won't see the Redskins make a serious run for another two years.

This is exactly why I blame Snyder. He knows what a coaching change can do. Look at what happened last year - the Skins had a lot of personnel turnover as they revamped their offense. They started out 0-5 as a result.
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Old 10-21-02, 12:00 PM
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Originally posted by Red Dog
This is exactly why I blame Snyder. He knows what a coaching change can do. Look at what happened last year - the Skins had a lot of personnel turnover as they revamped their offense. They started out 0-5 as a result.
And the Chargers deserve credit for courting the perfect coach for that team. They knew exactly how Marty would use their personnel, and they knew that it would work. Snyder saw a big name and went for it, not considering the team that he is currently fielding.
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Old 10-21-02, 12:02 PM
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Originally posted by Yancey
Snyder saw a big name and went for it, not considering the team that he is currently fielding.

Snyder could not bear the thought of what he thought was a Ferrari being in another guy's driveway.
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Old 10-21-02, 12:08 PM
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Originally posted by Yancey
But the cards dealt to him were good ones, only they don't fit his mold. The Redskins looked like a classic NFC East team: solid defense and good running game. If Marty had stayed on, I think you would be looking at a 9 or 10 win season from the Skins. But Spurrier will have to completely rehaul the lineup, which is why you won't see the Redskins make a serious run for another two years.
I'm not so sure that they would have a good running game. After all, like I said, the interior of the offensive line sucks donkey. I'm not sure they'd be able to create lanes for Davis to run through.

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Old 10-21-02, 12:11 PM
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Originally posted by immortal_zeus
I'm not so sure that they would have a good running game. After all, like I said, the interior of the offensive line sucks donkey. I'm not sure they'd be able to create lanes for Davis to run through.


I disagree - the Skins were in good shape cap-wise. Their middle 3 OL are different than last year. Certainly Marty would have spent the money to retain those guys or bring in other good ones. He brought last year's center, Cory Raymer, with him to SD.
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