Release List Reviews Shop Join News DVD Giveaways Video Games Advertise
DVD Reviews | Theatrical Reviews | Price Search Buy Stuff Here
DVD Talk
DVD Reviews DVD Talk Headlines HD Reviews


Add to My Yahoo! - RSS 2.0 - RSS 2.0 - DVD Talk Podcast RSS -


Go Back   DVD Talk Forum > General Discussions > Sports Talk

Sports Talk Discuss all things Sports Related

View Poll Results: Should Pete Rose Be In The Hall Of Fame?
Yes, His stats are amazing 106 59.89%
Yes, if he admits and/or apologizes 14 7.91%
No, his actions are inexcusable 52 29.38%
only if he takes twikoff with him 5 2.82%
Voters: 177. You may not vote on this poll

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 05-14-02, 07:00 PM   #76
DVD Talk Hall of Fame
 
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: Denver freakin' Colorado
Posts: 8,536
Quote:
Originally posted by twikoff


we use to burn suspected witches at the stake
i guess its a good thing that everyone doesnt have your views about punishment being set in stone with no room to adapt to what makes more sense
We also put thieves in jail.
  Reply With Quote
Old 05-14-02, 07:02 PM   #77
DVD Talk God
 
twikoff's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: Right Behind You!!!
Posts: 79,496
Quote:
Originally posted by Three Day Delay

We also put thieves in jail.
we also put drug users and murderers in jail

unless they play professional sports (in which case, we put them in the hall of fame)
  Reply With Quote
Old 05-14-02, 08:16 PM   #78
DVD Talk Legend
 
Join Date: Oct 1999
Location: Second Star on the right, and straight on til' morning...
Posts: 14,792
absolutely - The Baseball Hall of Fame is not about character, it's about level of ball play.

I wouldn't let him into the "great role models" club, though.
__________________
  Reply With Quote
Old 05-14-02, 09:04 PM   #79
Premium Member
 
The Cow's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2000
Location: Grazing in a field somewhere...
Posts: 19,759
Quote:
Originally posted by Seeker
absolutely - The Baseball Hall of Fame is not about character, it's about level of ball play.

I wouldn't let him into the "great role models" club, though.
Agree totally
  Reply With Quote
Old 05-14-02, 09:07 PM   #80
DVD Talk Ultimate Edition
 
Join Date: Jun 1999
Location: Cary, NC
Posts: 4,182
Quote:
Originally posted by twikoff


we use to burn suspected witches at the stake
i guess its a good thing that everyone doesnt have your views about punishment being set in stone with no room to adapt to what makes more sense
Oy! Stick to the point.

We didn't burn witches, we burned innocent people who we thought were witches. What made it wrong wasn't the punishment, it was that they didn't do the crime.

Pete broke baseball's cardinal rule. He is a witch, and he knew the penalty. And you have GOT to be kidding, or not understand the whole point of baseball, to argue that the penalty for gambling on a game in which you are playing is an anathema to the integrity of the game.

To recount (the obvious for the oblivious): In Baseball, you gamble on the game, you get banished from the game (and the Hall).

P.S. It's the Hall of Fame, not the Hall of Shame. This willingness to ignore the character of the player and only consider his production is what most fans decry as the ruin of professional sports, the loss of the role model in sport, and, for the purist, this is what makes baseball the Grand Old Game!

Pete's ultimate legacy is a black cloud against baseball. The point that he was one of the greatest competitors and performers the sport has known makes his fall from grace even more tragic.

He cheated on the game that gave him fame. All the platitudes apply. Baseball giveth, and Baseball taketh away. And the bigger they come, the harder our hero's fall.
  Reply With Quote
Old 05-14-02, 09:11 PM   #81
Premium Member
 
The Cow's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2000
Location: Grazing in a field somewhere...
Posts: 19,759
Something going on in nearby Cincinnati...

Reds are contacting all of the old Reds that played at Riverfront (umm, Cinery field) to attend the final game in Sept at that ballpark...

Pete is contacting the same people to play in a softball game a few days later. He is petitioning Cincy Council to rent out Riverfront (sorry again, Cinery field) on his own $$ with any proceeds going to charity.

Feeling is that the both will be total sellouts with the softball game being the hardest ticket to get...

This in no way qualifies him for the HOF, just throwing it out there, cuz he has don't a lot of good things in his time too... Agree, that his gambling is inexcusable if he bet on the Reds (expecially against)...

Still would put him in the hall if it were up to me...
  Reply With Quote
Old 05-14-02, 09:15 PM   #82
DVD Talk God
 
twikoff's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: Right Behind You!!!
Posts: 79,496
damn, thats a whole lot of cliches, saying a whole lot of nothing..

basically, the message is.. the rules says no betting on baseball.. pete allegedly bet on baseball.. so he is guilty.. the punishment as decided by the commissioner is banishment..

and the commissioner is always right

the majority of all sports fans are wrong, and this single figure at the head of baseball is correct.

the commissioners that have done nothing to help baseball, and more to hurt baseball can make the decision that this mans mistake should cause him punishment for life

I dont live in a world where everything is black and white, and there is no room for grey. The idea that the commission's decision is better for baseball, then the majority opinion of baseball fans, is just plain silly.

also.. maybe it helps that Im not naive enough to believe that a large number of current players are not placing bets, friendly or more, on games.
  Reply With Quote
Old 05-14-02, 09:17 PM   #83
DVD Talk God
 
twikoff's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: Right Behind You!!!
Posts: 79,496
Quote:
Originally posted by The Cow

Agree, that his gambling is inexcusable if he bet on the Reds (expecially against)...
i dont think anyone will even suggest that he bet against his team.. if people really believed this, noone would support him..

thats why there is such a debate.. because the majority doesnt see it as that big of a violation to bet on his own team to win.
  Reply With Quote
Old 05-14-02, 09:19 PM   #84
DVD Talk Special Edition
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: PA
Posts: 1,173
Quote:
Originally posted by twikoff
pete allegedly bet on baseball.. so he is guilty..
Do you remember if it was ever proved he did bet on baseball? We all know he probably did, but I can't remember details of this whole mess.
  Reply With Quote
Old 05-14-02, 09:25 PM   #85
Premium Member
 
The Cow's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2000
Location: Grazing in a field somewhere...
Posts: 19,759
Quote:
Originally posted by twikoff


i dont think anyone will even suggest that he bet against his team.. if people really believed this, noone would support him..

thats why there is such a debate.. because the majority doesnt see it as that big of a violation to bet on his own team to win.
That why I said "if"..

Seems like most of the country is divided, but here in the area for those of us that got to see him play day-in-and-day-out, really appreciate his baseball skills...
  Reply With Quote
Old 05-14-02, 10:04 PM   #86
DVD Talk Ultimate Edition
 
Join Date: Jun 1999
Location: Cary, NC
Posts: 4,182
Quote:
Originally posted by twikoff
damn, thats a whole lot of cliches, saying a whole lot of nothing..

basically, the message is.. the rules says no betting on baseball.. pete allegedly bet on baseball.. so he is guilty.. the punishment as decided by the commissioner is banishment..

and the commissioner is always right

the majority of all sports fans are wrong, and this single figure at the head of baseball is correct.

the commissioners that have done nothing to help baseball, and more to hurt baseball can make the decision that this mans mistake should cause him punishment for life

I dont live in a world where everything is black and white, and there is no room for grey. The idea that the commission's decision is better for baseball, then the majority opinion of baseball fans, is just plain silly.

also.. maybe it helps that Im not naive enough to believe that a large number of current players are not placing bets, friendly or more, on games.
Bart Giamatti had more respect for baseball and brought more honor and legitimacy to the game than a scumbag like Pete Rose could ever do. I respect Pete's accomplishment as a player, but he has shown himself to be a self-serving, dishonest cheater who will happily let the misguided hero worship of those who still hold on to the image of Charlie Hustle advance his pathetic crusade for the Hall.

There are no shades of gray, an no interpretation needed, when it comes to gambling on baseball. Even if you were granted the right to rewrite the rules, it still wouldn't change the fact that when Pete gambled on baseball, he also gambled with his legacy. And lost.

And twickoff, the reason something gets to be cliche's is because they it is widely accepted to have value as a general observations over time. Not because it "says nothing".

You can have the last word now...
  Reply With Quote
Old 05-14-02, 10:12 PM   #87
DVD Talk Legend
 
Join Date: Jan 2000
Location: Region 1
Posts: 16,289
Personally, I say he should be in the HOF but I'm not even gonna try to argue why. At this point, I can careless if he's in the HOF or not. All I know is in my heart that no one will come close to his 4200+ hits, and that's where it counts.
  Reply With Quote
Old 05-14-02, 10:25 PM   #88
DVD Talk God
 
twikoff's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: Right Behind You!!!
Posts: 79,496
noone wants to rewrite the rules
we want to rethink the punishment
big difference.. let the punishment fit the alleged crime.. and the majority still feel this is unjust
  Reply With Quote
Old 05-14-02, 10:37 PM   #89
Mod Emeritus
 
Join Date: Feb 1999
Location: Gone to the islands - 'til we meet again.
Posts: 19,053
Quote:
Originally posted by Red Dog
I'll post this again...Betting to win can have an effect on the integrity of the baseball season as well...

Sorry, I read it the first time and reading it a second doesn't change my mind. Did he make a stupid mistake? Sure, he did. But, as I said before, I don't believe he had a negative effect on the "integrety of the game" unless he was throwing games.
__________________
Breathe In,
Breathe Out,
Move On.
  Reply With Quote
Old 05-14-02, 10:39 PM   #90
DVD Talk Legend
 
Join Date: Oct 1999
Location: Second Star on the right, and straight on til' morning...
Posts: 14,792
I went to the bathroom at a urinal right next to Pete Rose. He peed like everyone else.

Yeah - he's a scumbag... but he was also a great baseball player. The "Hall of Fame" for baseball says he was famous - and he was. and is.
__________________
  Reply With Quote
Old 05-14-02, 10:57 PM   #91
DVD Talk Hall of Fame
 
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: Denver freakin' Colorado
Posts: 8,536
Quote:
Originally posted by twikoff
noone wants to rewrite the rules
we want to rethink the punishment
big difference.. let the punishment fit the alleged crime.. and the majority still feel this is unjust
But you don't even know what he is guilty of!

If he bet against the Reds, should he be banned?
If he bet for the Reds, and he made "extraordinary" changes on a particular betting game, should he be banned?
What if he bet on the line, and let his team win, but tried to keep the line closer?

You are willing to exhonerate the man, simply because he has good stats. Pete Rose accepted the terms of the ban because they were acceptable to him.


Here are some quotes from Rose:
“If I had been busted for drugs instead of gambling,” he says, “I'd still be managing the Reds, and baseball would be paying for my rehab.” April 2000 Playboy

“I created the problems I had, but it's sad you can't go down to the cage to watch your son hit....Everybody in the world will agree that regardless of what you think I did do or didn't do, I've been in the penalty box long enough.” March 2000 AP

"Evidence compiled by John Dowd in his report to Major League Baseball shows that Rose made bets on many teams including his own Reds. There were reports that he made arrangements to place bets with Ohio bookmaker, Ron Peters, from the Reds clubhouse. There are numerous phone records of conversations between Rose and a couple of his runners placing bets on many sports, including baseball. These records have Rose receiving calls in the Red's clubhouse minutes before game time. Aside from those calls, he also placed and received other gambling related calls from the team's clubhouse, hotel rooms, his car phone, and his own home. There is also testimony from several people who state that they placed and received bets for Rose with written documentation to prove it. There are taped telephone conversations between runners and bookies about Rose's gambling accounts and habits, as well as his relationships with Peters and other bookies."



  Reply With Quote
Old 05-14-02, 10:59 PM   #92
DVD Talk Legend
 
Join Date: Oct 1999
Location: Second Star on the right, and straight on til' morning...
Posts: 14,792
Well, again, I don't care if he murdered someone (I think that's much worse than gambling), he belongs in the Baseball Hall of Fame.

Of course, if he murdered someone, he ALSO belongs in jail, or in the electric chair.
__________________
  Reply With Quote
Old 05-14-02, 11:02 PM   #93
DVD Talk God
 
twikoff's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: Right Behind You!!!
Posts: 79,496
yea, Ive seen the evidence, and it makes a pretty good case
but in a case like this, until their is an admission of guilt, it is still alleged

but unless someone can ever bring me any proof at all, that he bet against his own team, I think that punishment is way too harsh for the crime
  Reply With Quote
Old 05-14-02, 11:55 PM   #94
DVD Talk Ultimate Edition
 
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: looking for mangos in the jungle
Posts: 4,065
yes, i think he should. i'm of the mindset that your physical accomplishments on the field should dictate your entrance into the hall.
__________________
you can turn your back on a person, but never turn your back on a drug; especially when it's holding a razor sharp hunting knife in your eye.
  Reply With Quote
Old 05-15-02, 12:02 AM   #95
DVD Talk Ultimate Edition
 
Join Date: Jun 1999
Location: Cary, NC
Posts: 4,182
Quote:
Originally posted by Seeker
Well, again, I don't care if he murdered someone (I think that's much worse than gambling), he belongs in the Baseball Hall of Fame.

Of course, if he murdered someone, he ALSO belongs in jail, or in the electric chair.
But murder is NOT worse than gambling on a game in which you are playing in terms of it's effect on BASEBALL.

Society has punishments for murder, it is a crime against society. And baseball lets society deal with it's own province. Y'all in society, who are not only NOT in baseball, but also don't seem to understand baseball, need to let baseball deal with crimes against baseball. To suggest that the "average" fan understands baseball to the extent of a commissioner like Bart Giamatti is ludicrous.

The "majority", if they think Pete should be in the hall, are wrong, wrong, wrong and are showing why they shouldn't get a vote!

Betting on baseball is a crime against the integrity of BASEBALL and in baseball, it is the death sentence.

Pete knows that ****, why don't y'all?
  Reply With Quote
Old 05-15-02, 12:05 AM   #96
DVD Talk Ultimate Edition
 
Join Date: Jun 1999
Location: Cary, NC
Posts: 4,182
Quote:
Originally posted by monkeyboy
yes, i think he should. i'm of the mindset that your physical accomplishments on the field should dictate your entrance into the hall.
Dude! He physically freakin' wrote the checks!!!

He betrayed the game that allowed him to compile his career stats!

OY!
  Reply With Quote
Old 05-15-02, 12:31 AM   #97
DVD Talk Legend
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Minnesota
Posts: 10,614
Yes
__________________
I was dyslexic as a child...and I wrote about it everyday in my dairy.
  Reply With Quote
Old 05-15-02, 01:19 AM   #98
DVD Talk Ultimate Edition
 
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: looking for mangos in the jungle
Posts: 4,065
Quote:
Originally posted by Big Quasimodo


Dude! He physically freakin' wrote the checks!!!

He betrayed the game that allowed him to compile his career stats!

OY!
i don't care that he gambled. so keep him out of the HOF as a manager. i don't care about his 'betrayal' of the sport. just look at the guys stats as a player, that's what's important to me.

by the looks of that betting sheet above, he was betting on the reds to win.
__________________
you can turn your back on a person, but never turn your back on a drug; especially when it's holding a razor sharp hunting knife in your eye.

Last edited by monkeyboy; 05-15-02 at 01:23 AM.
  Reply With Quote
Old 05-15-02, 05:47 AM   #99
Stealth Moderator
 
namja's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 1999
Location: High Definition
Posts: 24,942
What is the integrity of baseball? Is there any integrity left?

Players used to play baseball because they loved the game. They now play baseball for money, and for money alone. The ballparks are now plastered with ads, the players have agents/lawyers who battle with the owners for more money, the teams that make the playoffs are generally those with the highest payroll, etc. Money drives all professional sports. When owners pay exorbitant amounts of money to their players so that they can win a Championship and bring in more revenues/income, that is no different that gambling. Investing is just a glorified term for gambling. Especially in sports, both involve a lot of educated guesses.

Anyway, I'm with Seeker. The HoF should be about the players' baseball skills. Nothing else.
__________________

life in high definition
  Reply With Quote
Old 05-15-02, 06:52 AM   #100
DVD Talk God
 
twikoff's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: Right Behind You!!!
Posts: 79,496
these poll results are about what I expected

75% saying he should be in, and only 20% saying he shouldnt

but what do we know

baseball is a dictatorship, not a democracy.. and obviously some of our members thing this is a good thing.. 1 man's opinion is better for the game, then the collected opinion of their entire fanbase? Thats just plain silly
  Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 06:11 PM.


Copyright 2011 DVDTalk.com All Rights Reserved. Privacy Policy and Terms of Use.

Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO 3.2.0