For now, I'm sticking with my A2 pre-order. But it's time to upgrade the receiver. I'm looking for a receiver that will do HDMI up-converting on ALL INPUTS (even composite). I'm an Onkyo man at heart, but will consider all good brands. Prefer to stay well below $500 if possible, but interested in all possibilities.

Also, I'd like it to be able to grow with the new HD formats.

Onkyo is the only brand sub-$500 I can recommend.

I love my new receiver so I'm pimping it out to everyone that asks, the Denon-AVR887 is awesome. HDMI upconverting, 1080p compatible, it's a little more pricey at around $700 shipped, but I think it's tremendous.

Yep, I love my Denon receiver.

Unfortunately, the 604 does not do HDMI upconversion across all inputs, only component.

The JVC hybrid amps do up-conversion across all inputs to HDMI. I just purchased two of the the RX-D412B's for around $350 each.

The more research I do, the more this keeps coming up. It's practically future proof, although I'd prefer a few more HDMI inputs, its a tremendous bargain. Hopefully there's a price drop soon to closer to $600 or so. I don't think the wife can swing it this year.

Isn't it still limited to HDMI 1.1?

What you would like does not currently exist. Maybe in a couple years.

Please. There are two models in this thread already.

If you're seriously hoping to grow w/ the formats, and get the most out of your purchase, I'd suggest waiting for an HDMI 1.3 receiver to take advantage of the various new audio formats.

They should be out early next year...consider it additional time to save =)

Note: the Denon does NOT upconvert anything. Denon's "upconvert" in their brochures simply means that it will take an analog input (composite, RCA, etc) input and "upconvert" it to digital (HDMI). It does not change the resolution - just simply converts it to HDMI.

At least, that is what I have discerned from reading about the 887 and others here and at AVSForum. In the end, while I was looking at the 887, I went with the 2307CI. It's $550+shipping at Dynaco and they were great. Called them a few times to make sure it was in stock and then to check on shipment.

And yes, if you can wait, perhaps wait for HDMI 1.3. I couldn't wait and my 2307 comes today.

You can easily compare Denon receivers - here's a comparison of the 2307CI vs. 887 - I really don't think there's any big differences, just maybe the 2307 is the newer model.

My thoughts on HDMI 1.3 are why bother with it if you don't have other HDMI 1.3 products in your A/V system. For instance, in order for you to enjoy the broader/richer colors and improved PQ HDMI 1.3 players are able to deliver you must also have a monitor that has a HDMI 1.3 port.

On the audio front, current HDMI 1.1 and 1.2 will pass a DD True HD and DTS MA signal but not sure if this is lossless.

DVD Josh, I also support all the votes for the Denon AVR's. Granted I've got an older model (AVR 5700) it has been rock solid. It's surpassed my expectations and has truely been the heart of my home theater.

I wish only that the Toshiba HDA2 had the 5.1 analog out. Bummer. I might eventually break down and get one anyway.

When you get your Denon can you tell me if you are able to get the receiver setup screens to pass through HDMI to the TV (if you happen to be using yours as a video switcher)? I can't figure out how to get my 4806 to do it, so I use a composite video out to the TV seperately so I can access it if I have to.

Unless everything else I've read and heard is incorrect, this statement is not true. HDMI 1.1 can pass a PCM stream that has been decoded from True HD or DTS MA, but it cannot pass the encoded stream directly. HDMI 1.3 is required to do that.

So, unless one owns a player that can decode the HD audio formats to PCM, HDMI 1.1 is useless for handling HD audio.

I like how you didn't quote my entire sentence.

I had a feeling of doubt myself, hence I stated that I wasn't sure if it was lossless. Apparently, the audio signal can pass through HDMI 1.1 and 1.2 but is decoded. Thanks.

Keep in mind it can pass thru as either DTS or PCM, according to the players shipped so far. DTS is lossy, PCM is lossless. Does that alter your discussion?

Also, consider that TrueHD is a form of PCM already, in different packaging....

From what I've heard, the menus are output at 480, so if you have problems receiving 480 over HDMI, that could be the problem. I'm new to all of this, so we'll see what happens

I didn't quote that portion of your sentence because it made no sense. Dolby Digital True HD and DTS HD Master Audio ARE lossless codecs. Your questioning of whether or not that is true didn't seem to add anything to the discussion.

In short, adapting a True HD or DTS MA audio stream into something that can be passed over HDMI 1.1 requires that either the signal be downgraded to a lossy one (which, by its very nature, means that the signal is no longer True HD or DTS MA, but rather something less), or that the signal be converted to PCM (which requires a player capable of that decoding and conversion). Hence my point that HDMI 1.3 is very much a valid consideration for HD audio.

My question is thus:

When a HDMI 1.3 receiver is out, will it accept the 'lossless' audio and all that while sending the video to a HDMI 1.1 monitor?

OR do they all have to be 1.3 for the whole chain to work?

As I understand it, as long as any "upstream" component (such as a receiver) is 1.3-compliant, then a downstream component (such as a display device) can be 1.1 with no problem.

So, a chain of

HDMI 1.3 HD DVD / Blu-ray player -> HDMI 1.3 Receiver -> HDMI 1.1 Display

should work just fine.

However, if one were to connect a 1.3-compliant player and display device (when they are eventually released) through a receiver that is only 1.1, such as

HDMI 1.3 HD DVD / Blu-ray player -> HDMI 1.1 Receiver -> HDMI 1.3 Display

I believe the receiver would not pass the 1.3 enhancements on to the display, since it has no knowledge of them.

Blake,
So have you gotten a chance to play around with your receiver yet? Just wondering how you like it? I am thinking about ordering the same one from Dynaco.

Just bumping this thread to say I got my AVR-2307CI from Dynaco today. It came amazingly fast, ground shipping from NY to FL in 2 days. So far I absolutely love the receiver. It was simple to setup and sounds way better than my previous Onkyo receiver.

sorry if this is a stupid newb question, but will my 4 year old receiver be compatable with hd-dvd players? I haven't yet purchased any hd equipment, but am starting to look into it. thanks