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Sony should trademark this word...

I thought you might since you admit that BD50 is useless for movies, here:

However, the Blu-ray product released on BD25 is not measuring up to the standards set by HD DVD. They either have inferior PQ or drop extras to fit everything into 25 gig.

I think Blu-ray needs BD50 to have some sort of advantage over HD DVD. Otherwise they're stuck with a 5 gig deficit on a disc that is more expensive to manufacture. Otherwise, the reviews will continue to say things like, '... at times the PQ was on par with HD DVD...'.

Blu-ray is the one that is in the middle, doing nothing for anyone at this point (especially since we're really only concerned with pre-recorded movie playback)... unless they have BD50 as the standard release (I'd say in 95%+ of releases).

Also from blu-raydisc.com:

How do you fulfill these claims without BD50? How can you market your product in this way and then release a product with less capacity than the competition?

Sony knows how important BD50 is. That's why I keep saying, Blu-ray lives or dies with BD50. They need BD50 in large quantities as of 3 months ago.

I think Warner has proven that with VC1 Blu-ray can match (though in most reviews it still seems the HD DVD version is a touch sharper) HD DVD. The problem is this is not what they set out to do. Blu-ray is absolutely about BD50 and those promised high bitrates that will surpass HD DVD.

Nearly every release should be on BD50 and the format should have never been launched without it.

Being as good as HD DVD (something they are just now reaching) is not going to make them successful. The question is once the BD50 discs hit, will they finally put themselves in the lead for PQ?

On paper it is a yes, but after watching Seabiscuit on HD DVD I really have to question if anything else is going to really surpass HD DVD in a way noticeable enough to matter.

Thus far, BD still hasn't reached HD DVD. Until they are releasing discs with PQ/AQ plus the wealth of supplemental materials that are carried over from SD DVD, they won't be matching it. If they keep releasing discs that drop the extras to fit the quality on there, then it will always be seen as a compromise. And hell, even some of the discs that drop all those extras still don't match up.

Pulling up some old-school quotes. I like it!

Well, if I don't put 'potentially' up there, people will complain because it is impossible to know. Damned if I do, damned if I don't.

Indeed, it is worthless for movies. I stand by that statement. And my collection of Blu-Ray titles confirms that. These titles didn't need any extra storage space, and with exception for any super-length movie, no other film does either.

The Warner releases, except for the first wave, are bit-for-bit identical to their HD DVD counterparts. If you insult them, you insult HD DVD as well. One can't be better than the other. The jury is still out on Paramount, but early indications is that there is no difference there either. So that leaves Universal, which you can't say would look worse on Blu-Ray because they don't release Blu-Ray (yet).

Some sort of advantage? If the videogame industry has taught us anything, studios that release on both formats will do so to the lowest common denominator, meaning that they will restrict releases to use only 25GB so they can easily fit on both discs. Now that BD50 is available, they no longer have to do that (it will now be restricted to 30GB). You should be thanking Blu-Ray. And as much as this "more expensive to manufacture" crap gets slung around, you think it would have died by now. If they are so much more expensive to manufacture, why are BD releases cheaper than HD DVD? Why is Superman Returns $5 cheaper on the "getting horrible yeilds" BD50?

If 95% of releases are on BD50, and use that additional space, then 95% of releases will never be on HD DVD in their full capacity. That is why HD DVD lives or dies by BD50. If it becomes the industry norm, then you will see studios cutting back on extras and soundtracks to release on HD DVD, making them obsolete. Who is going to pay the same price or more for less content?

I'm calling shenanigans here. You admitted that you don't have a player, but just discs. You can't offer an informed opinion about the quality of what you have because all you have are blu boxes on a shelf.

Just because I don't own a player, doesn't mean I haven't watched the discs.

You don't have a BluRay player?

You mean this entire time you only have discs and no player? You have got to be kidding me. How can anyone judge something they don't have?

Where have you been? He's been promoting the Panasonic player as the 2nd coming and he won't buy anything that costs more than the PS3.

Then they would still not have a release, though maybe BD50 will be the official release.

They couldn't wait and let HD-DVD be on the market that long. They had to come out with something, especially because they had no real idea when BD50 would be a reality. I'm not sure they really know that now.

I understand why they launched without it. They needed to keep people devoted to a company rather than a product happy and waiting.

Like I said before, cost in not a limiter. HDMI v1.3 is a must and the PS3 will be the first player on the market to support it.

What is the big deal about 1.3?

There isn't one. It's one of those things BD-fanatics like to use to sound superior, honestly. It's just another # at this point because there aren't any TV's or receivers out that can really utilize it.

I don't even know what the big deal is about HDMI, period. Aside from including audio, how is it any better than DVI? I know it seems to have a few more problems than DVI, but that's *all* I know.

Higher speed: HDMI 1.3 increases its single-link bandwidth from 165MHz (4.95 gigabits per second) to 340 MHz (10.2 Gbps) to support the demands of future high definition display devices, such as higher resolutions, Deep Color and high frame rates. In addition, built into the HDMI 1.3 specification is the technical foundation that will let future versions of HDMI reach significantly higher speeds.

Deep Color: HDMI 1.3 supports 30-bit, 36-bit and 48-bit (RGB or YCbCr) color depths, up from the 24-bit depths in previous versions of the HDMI specification.

* Lets HDTVs and other displays go from million of colors to billions of colors.
* Eliminates on-screen color banding, for smooth tonal transitions and subtle gradations between colors.
* Enables increased contrast ratio
* Can represent many times more shades of gray between black and white
* At 30-bit pixel depth, a four times improvement would be the minimum, and the typical improvement would be eight times or more.

Broader color space: HDMI 1.3 removes all limits on color selection

* Next-generation “xvYCC” color space supports 1.8 times as many colors as existing HDTV signals
* Lets HDTVs display colors more accurately
* Enables displays with natural, vivid colors

New mini connector: With small portable devices such as HD camcorders and still cameras demanding seamless connectivity to HDTVs, HDMI 1.3 offers a new, smaller form factor connector option.

Lip Sync: Because consumer electronics devices are using increasingly complex digital signal processing to enhance the clarity and detail of the content, synchronization of video and audio in user devices has become a greater challenge and could potentially require complex end-user adjustments. HDMI 1.3 incorporates an automatic video/audio synching capability that allows devices to perform this synchronization automatically with total accuracy.

New lossless audio formats: In addition to HDMI’s current ability to support high-bandwidth uncompressed digital audio and all currently-available compressed formats (such as Dolby Digital and DTS), HDMI 1.3 adds additional support for new, lossless compressed digital audio formats Dolby TrueHD and DTS-HD.

Are you calling Toshiba a "BD-fanatic"? Being that the XA2 is utilizing v1.3 and all...

Could not agree more. Long term there may be an advantage to 1.3, but if price is not problem then why get 1.3. If price is unimportant buy the best current player and then upgrade in a year or two. I know alot of us will be getting new players (HD-DVD or BD or BOTH) within the next 12-18 months so we are buying based on today not tomorrow. I am loving my A1, but by the time I get a new Receiver and Display that use 1.3 I am sure it will be relegated to a backup unit. I am sure the second gen Pioneer will have 1.3 and if it is hybrid (HD-DVD and BD) then that looks like it might be my first BD player. I will admit a couple of the recent Disney movies have got decent reviews on BD and I am having an itch to get BD, but the lack of extras and little things keep me calm and on the sideline. I am going to wait till about Febuary before I make up my mind what to do about BD (LG and Disney could radically change my desire for a BD player by years end).

Oh, and pointing out that the Toshiba has it in the G2 model only points out how well the Toshiba camp is doing. A great lauch product, nearly sold out, upgraded to a new model with improved tech (1.3) all before some of the BD companies could get G1 models out without tech such as 1.3. You do not hear those of us with A1 crying over the lack of 1.3 while you are using it as a reason to avoid a player. It "will" be important as some point and I would prefer my next player have it, but my current player does not need it as my Pioneer 53TX does not have HDMI switching and my Toshiba display does not have 1.3 either.

To those of us that have A1s, HDMI 1.3 is not a must have. The player can decode TrueHD for us so we don't need the 1.3 to output the signal to the mythical receiver that doesn't exist yet to decode it.

Also, Deep color is not supported by Blu-ray or HD DVD so I don't see the importance of it either.

I think they should get it in the future players, but it will be awhile until we have a receiver and TV to use them with.

Also, Joshds arguement against BD50 seems to stress the point that what HD DVD is giving us is all we need in a next gen video format. The best pro HD DVD rant I have read in awhile.

If all you have done is watch a couple movies, then what experience do you have with the format. I have watch a demo at Circuit City, but that doesn't mean I have experience with the format.

I don't own a player yet either (but should later today), which is why I have not been voicing opinions on either format.

So its just a number until Toshiba releases it, then its great? What's the definition of a fanboy again?

Correct. We have all we need for high definition movies - on both sides. So if you agree with that, then the only other two things are price and studio support. Pricing will be the same come November 17th, which leaves studio support - and we all know who wins that battle. So why support HD DVD at all?

oooh...and which did you go with??

No one has to own a player in order to know someone who does. And no one has to own a player in order to watch your discs on that someones equipment. I'm not sure what point you are trying to make?

So I can say PS3 sucks because Ive played it a few times? Should I go on how the Wii will be super awesome since Ive played that as well? How can people even post in a HD area and act like they are experts when they don't even own the machine to play the format they support? But I gues if Sony decided to come out with a toilet that played movies from inside the bowl there would be some sort of 'Sony following'.

The only thing BR has done correctly is not releasing stupid Combo discs. What a waste of money.

Yeah...but the funny thing is the "average joe's" tend to love the idea. Oddly enough, it's a selling point for HD DVD because BD can't do it. If they'd just drop the prices, I really could care less. I'd be fine with it.

Does the fact that the PS3 is only partially supporting HDMI 1.3 (incidentally, the components of the 1.2a spec) give you any pause?