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Do you want doctors and nurses graduating early because of Coronavirus?

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Do you want doctors and nurses graduating early because of Coronavirus?

Old 03-29-20, 05:50 PM
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Do you want doctors and nurses graduating early because of Coronavirus?

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/26/h...raduation.html

i mean i'm sure some doctors and nurses here could weigh in, but do you really want a doctor who just about finished med school? that's a little scary no? i mean i don't have any clue how much training you have by 4th year, but have you done internship, residency by then? they are going to be treating patients right away from college? that doesn't sound so good to me.

what do you think?

Last edited by OldBoy; 03-29-20 at 06:24 PM.
Old 03-29-20, 06:29 PM
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Re: Do you want doctors and nurses graduating early because of Coronavirus?

I won’t speak to the world of doctors, but in nursing the last semester is a preceptorship, which is basically an internship. At this point the person will have gotten all the book knowledge they’re going to get from class time. After x amount of preceptorship hours comes graduation. Once you have those hours and diploma there’s still the final exam to become registered as an RN.
I’d be in favor of granting an RN license with less preceptor hours, but they still need to have taken the classes and be able able to pass the test.
Old 03-29-20, 07:09 PM
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Re: Do you want doctors and nurses graduating early because of Coronavirus?

I think the overwhelming majority of posters here (Tom Banjo being one of the exceptions) are not really in any position to have an informed opinion on this. I want everybody who has the knowledge in skills to effectively treat patients to be put in a position where they can contribute to treating patients. What does that look like? Early graduation? Residency "plus," whatever that means? Business as usual because we already move people through as efficiently as practical? Beats the hell out of me.
Old 03-29-20, 07:56 PM
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Re: Do you want doctors and nurses graduating early because of Coronavirus?

I can’t speak for doctors, but I learned more in my first month as a news photographer than I ever did in school as far as “this is how the job actually works”. I imagine having educated people who can help in any way at medical facilities is a good thing right now. Especially when all of the current doctors and nurses catch this thing.
Old 03-29-20, 08:47 PM
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Re: Do you want doctors and nurses graduating early because of Coronavirus?

I imagine there are all sorts of creative things going on.

Ive often suggested that to reduce cost a seasoned experienced Dr isn’t needed for everything. 99% of what I’ve ever had done that was “routine” was done by a PA. Not by the Dr.
Old 03-29-20, 09:35 PM
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Re: Do you want doctors and nurses graduating early because of Coronavirus?

Think of it like the self-checkout lane. One “real” doctor overseeing several students who can see patients instead of one doctor being directly burned out. Maybe not the best analogy ...

It’s not like they are just going to be turned loose and told to go into practice. I fully support getting med students, nursing students, etc. off the sidelines and giving them some real world experience that can be counted towards their requirements.

(Not an expert, but my wife has worked on an ICU floor for over ten years and is currently working towards her RN.)
Old 03-30-20, 11:01 AM
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Re: Do you want doctors and nurses graduating early because of Coronavirus?

Not a doctor, but I did stay at a Holiday Inn Express so I'll agree with the folks above who said if it's just the "internship" part of their training left, then as long as they have the technical skills then let them get out there help.
Old 03-30-20, 11:43 AM
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Re: Do you want doctors and nurses graduating early because of Coronavirus?

Same as the majority. OR to entice med students, count Coro hours as intern hours. That way you aren't just giving a degree to people that end up just kicking back on the couch.
Old 03-30-20, 12:11 PM
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Re: Do you want doctors and nurses graduating early because of Coronavirus?

I don't know either but I ask this... compared to the full scope of being a doctor or nurse, how difficult is it to diagnose, monitor and treat patients with Covid-19? Can someone that is nearing the end of schooling reasonably get a crash course in this and get out into the field and specialize in only Covid cases for a short amount of time?

Maybe someone fresh out of school can take care of the milder cases so the more seasoned doctors and nurses can handle the serious cases. Doesn't seem unreasonable to me but like I said, I don't know.
Old 03-30-20, 03:19 PM
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Re: Do you want doctors and nurses graduating early because of Coronavirus?

Despite some of the effort put forth by certain politicians to end social distancing the reality is that if social distancing works to actually flatten the curve by the end of April to mid-May we may not need a crush of new nurses/doctors flooding the marketplace at once so I think I might be going against the grain here and say that I would prefer that the process to become a nurse/Dr. is the process and lets let it play out like usual. I really do not want partially educated folks becoming a nurse/Dr. as I would think this is one of those professions where an incompetent person can do much more harm than good if they slip up.

If an Amazon warehouse worker goofs and pulls a broken doodad and it ends up boxed and shipped to you than you can simply return it for a replacement, if a semi-skilled nurse does not know how to do a proper and efficient blood draw, or something like that, you end up looking like a human pin-cushion, and that is a humorous example I am using. For things like becoming a nurse/Dr. lets not speed up a process that still works.

The horse has already left the barn and trying to play catch up on the number of qualified medical professional needed to help out now is pretty pointless so we just need make do with what he have now and do the best we can as a society to utilize the resources we have in the least wasteful manner possible.

Old 03-30-20, 04:38 PM
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Re: Do you want doctors and nurses graduating early because of Coronavirus?

Originally Posted by Inhumans99 View Post
Despite some of the effort put forth by certain politicians to end social distancing the reality is that if social distancing works to actually flatten the curve by the end of April to mid-May we may not need a crush of new nurses/doctors flooding the marketplace at once so I think I might be going against the grain here and say that I would prefer that the process to become a nurse/Dr. is the process and lets let it play out like usual. I really do not want partially educated folks becoming a nurse/Dr. as I would think this is one of those professions where an incompetent person can do much more harm than good if they slip up.

If an Amazon warehouse worker goofs and pulls a broken doodad and it ends up boxed and shipped to you than you can simply return it for a replacement, if a semi-skilled nurse does not know how to do a proper and efficient blood draw, or something like that, you end up looking like a human pin-cushion, and that is a humorous example I am using. For things like becoming a nurse/Dr. lets not speed up a process that still works.

The horse has already left the barn and trying to play catch up on the number of qualified medical professional needed to help out now is pretty pointless so we just need make do with what he have now and do the best we can as a society to utilize the resources we have in the least wasteful manner possible.
I think we're talking about students who are in the last few months of their education and already have most of those hard skills down. As long as they're not asked to make in-depth diagnoses and such, just keep things running, it sounds like good on the job experience to me.
Old 03-30-20, 05:05 PM
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Re: Do you want doctors and nurses graduating early because of Coronavirus?

Originally Posted by milo bloom View Post
I think we're talking about students who are in the last few months of their education and already have most of those hard skills down. As long as they're not asked to make in-depth diagnoses and such, just keep things running, it sounds like good on the job experience to me.
Exactly - I feel like there is more than enough "grunt work" that they could handle.
Old 03-30-20, 06:31 PM
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Re: Do you want doctors and nurses graduating early because of Coronavirus?

As someone who actually graduated Medical School, I assure you this is NOT a big deal. The fourth year, especially after your Match in March (where you are placed in a Residency program for the upcoming year starting July 1) is really blow-off. Lots of electives. I did stuff like dermatology, rural medicine (a requirement at KU Med, but not at most schools), geriatric medicine and an away elective in Pediatric Cardiology. It's a fun time, but nothing that you NEED to be a doctor.
March, April and May of your Fourth year is a wonderful time, the calm before the Storm. Med School equivalent of "Senioritis".

I am more concerned about the Third Year students in rotations like Surgery and OB/Gyn who are missing out on lots of important education because they can't scrub into procedures anymore (due to the scarcity of PPE). I don't know what can be done about it, but I do worry that some students are going to be missing out on valuable education and have a deficit in their schooling as a result.

I stopped taking medical students in my office until this is over. Nobody wants an extra body in the room right now.
Old 03-30-20, 07:03 PM
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Re: Do you want doctors and nurses graduating early because of Coronavirus?

My late mother was a registered nurse who graduated from the then-very-common three year "diploma" program for RNs. With every acknowledgment of the fact that medical technology has been radically advanced from the point it was in 1947, the fact is that student nurses were all but in charge of a lot of units on the evening and night shifts in teaching hospitals for decades (which is one reason the hospital programs were phased out--the American Nurses' Association and other regulatory bodies threatened litigation against hospitals for using students as staff). I'm sure the same can be said of medical students, residents, and interns. As long as there are licensed professionals in charge, I don't see the problem. This is an emergency situation.
Old 03-31-20, 08:16 AM
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Re: Do you want doctors and nurses graduating early because of Coronavirus?

No, because right now, we need the right people. Quality doesn't matter.
Old 04-01-20, 12:43 AM
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Re: Do you want doctors and nurses graduating early because of Coronavirus?

I am a nursing student. I worked in software for 10 years, at various tech startups as a product manager making $150K/year, but gave that up in 2015 because I wanted to help people hands on gloves on. After spending 3 years in school paying $75K in tuition, I'll end up making about half what I was making before.

I'm in my second to last semester of an ABSN program at Cal State University San Marcos. We are in a cohort system, scheduled to graduate in August 2020. We (each student) had about 50 hours of pediatric clinical rotation left, but due to COVID-19, we were shut out of the hospitals for clinical rotations. We have already spent 550+ hours in our clinical rotations doing direct patient care. We are proficient in administering medication, inserting catheters, starting IV lines, working with ventilators, among other things. Governor Newsom issued an executive order yesterday--and the California Board of Registered Nursing (BRN) issued a statement today--asking various healthcare personnel (including nursing students) to help with the severe shortage of healthcare providers in California. I signed up. If called upon, they can deploy me to anywhere in California, and I can start working right away on a temporary basis. As of right now, none of those hours will count towards my graduation. I could be working as a "nurse" for a year or more, then I may have to go back to school and repeat the current semester plus another semester. It's BULLSHIT. The BRN has been such a pain to work with. Bureaucracy, red tape, assholes on the board, etc. We don't even want a reduction in the required hours. We just want flexibility in how those hours are earned.

Anyway, pardon the rant. I'm just pissed that the BRN is asking us to risk our lives, but they are not (yet) being flexible with the curriculum.
Old 04-01-20, 02:08 PM
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Re: Do you want doctors and nurses graduating early because of Coronavirus?

Namja ...




Seriously ... thank you.

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