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Official Trump Presidency Thread, Part 3

Old 04-24-19, 02:00 PM
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Re: Official Trump Presidency Thread, Part 3

Just to keep hammering an important point home till it sticks


Hearings absolutely critical to inform the public on just what is meant by "Russia hacked our election"

Only then will people understand the treachery of Trump and the GOP that is protecting him...and, like McConnell clearly illustrates, profiting themselves from sanctions relief (aid & comfort, n'est pas?).
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Old 04-24-19, 02:23 PM
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Re: Official Trump Presidency Thread, Part 3

If social media convinced someone to not vaccinate their kids, then that's a stupid person.
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Old 04-24-19, 02:24 PM
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Re: Official Trump Presidency Thread, Part 3

Originally Posted by Draven View Post
If social media convinced someone to not vaccinate their kids, then that's a stupid person.
What's your point? There are a lot of stupid people in the US. They get to vote, too.
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Old 04-24-19, 02:25 PM
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Re: Official Trump Presidency Thread, Part 3

Originally Posted by Draven View Post
If social media convinced someone to not vaccinate their kids, then that's a stupid person.
I mean, are they any less stupid if they let another person or an article convince them to not vaccinate?
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Old 04-24-19, 02:29 PM
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Re: Official Trump Presidency Thread, Part 3

People are persuadable. It starts with little things, and gets more and more targeted to their underlying fears. People who have a fear of needles, for example, are more likely to buy into the conspiracy theory that vaccines can hurt you.
It's not about being stupid (that DOES play a part) but, as I said... persuadability. With enough pressure through specific types of advertisement, messages, imagery, etc., you can whittle away at their skepticism to sell them a certain idea.
Social media is a tool for persuasion.
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Old 04-24-19, 03:28 PM
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Re: Official Trump Presidency Thread, Part 3

Originally Posted by Dan View Post
People are persuadable. It starts with little things, and gets more and more targeted to their underlying fears. People who have a fear of needles, for example, are more likely to buy into the conspiracy theory that vaccines can hurt you.
It's not about being stupid (that DOES play a part) but, as I said... persuadability. With enough pressure through specific types of advertisement, messages, imagery, etc., you can whittle away at their skepticism to sell them a certain idea.
Social media is a tool for persuasion.
And before social media, there was email. Before Aunt Sadie shared memes on Facebook, she was forwarding emails which were just as truthful (or not) as those memes.

I don't think that people generally are more gullible now than in the past, but the ubiquity of the internet has enabled more gullible people to be online.
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Old 04-24-19, 03:41 PM
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Re: Official Trump Presidency Thread, Part 3

Originally Posted by sracer View Post
And before social media, there was email. Before Aunt Sadie shared memes on Facebook, she was forwarding emails which were just as truthful (or not) as those memes.

I don't think that people generally are more gullible now than in the past, but the ubiquity of the internet has enabled more gullible people to be online.
Yup. Used to get those from my dad. While I'm not happy he's passed on, I do have to say I'm glad I never had to deal with Facebook stuff from him.

Just an example of his gullibility: One time, he claimed he heard a radio DJ call Bob Dylan "Bobby Die-lan" instead of the more common pronunciation. From that point on, anytime anyone would refer to Bob Dylan, my dad would "correct" them with what he heard on the radio that one time. He'd get into a big argument about it too, insisting it was the correct pronunciation, all because of what he once heard someone say. Even if that was what the DJ said (and I'll admit, my dad liked his PBR and rye whiskey a LOT, if ya catch my drift), why did he put so much faith into what one person said a single time? Couldn't that person have been wrong? That kind of analysis was something my dad never did.

Again, I miss my dad, but I'm so glad he's not around for this kind of shit, 'cause he was the type of person to fall for it hook, line, sinker, rod, reel, and right arm.
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Old 04-24-19, 03:46 PM
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Re: Official Trump Presidency Thread, Part 3

Originally Posted by Paff View Post
Yup. Used to get those from my dad. While I'm not happy he's passed on, I do have to say I'm glad I never had to deal with Facebook stuff from him.

Just an example of his gullibility: One time, he claimed he heard a radio DJ call Bob Dylan "Bobby Die-lan" instead of the more common pronunciation. From that point on, anytime anyone would refer to Bob Dylan, my dad would "correct" them with what he heard on the radio that one time. He'd get into a big argument about it too, insisting it was the correct pronunciation, all because of what he once heard someone say. Even if that was what the DJ said (and I'll admit, my dad liked his PBR and rye whiskey a LOT, if ya catch my drift), why did he put so much faith into what one person said a single time? Couldn't that person have been wrong? That kind of analysis was something my dad never did.

Again, I miss my dad, but I'm so glad he's not around for this kind of shit, 'cause he was the type of person to fall for it hook, line, sinker, rod, reel, and right arm.

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Old 04-24-19, 04:19 PM
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Re: Official Trump Presidency Thread, Part 3

Originally Posted by Paff View Post
Yup. Used to get those from my dad. While I'm not happy he's passed on, I do have to say I'm glad I never had to deal with Facebook stuff from him.

Just an example of his gullibility: One time, he claimed he heard a radio DJ call Bob Dylan "Bobby Die-lan" instead of the more common pronunciation. From that point on, anytime anyone would refer to Bob Dylan, my dad would "correct" them with what he heard on the radio that one time. He'd get into a big argument about it too, insisting it was the correct pronunciation, all because of what he once heard someone say. Even if that was what the DJ said (and I'll admit, my dad liked his PBR and rye whiskey a LOT, if ya catch my drift), why did he put so much faith into what one person said a single time? Couldn't that person have been wrong? That kind of analysis was something my dad never did.

Again, I miss my dad, but I'm so glad he's not around for this kind of shit, 'cause he was the type of person to fall for it hook, line, sinker, rod, reel, and right arm.
I'm sorry for your loss. Your dad sounds like a salt-of-the-earth kind of guy. (Rye whiskey )

I hear ya on that... It's been a task to keep my mom and dad off the Facebook. (My mom confused the social media sites.. MyFace and Spacebook ) If they were active on it they'd fall for it every bit as much as your dad would have.
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Old 04-24-19, 04:35 PM
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Re: Official Trump Presidency Thread, Part 3

Originally Posted by Noonan View Post
Beat me to it.

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Old 04-24-19, 04:38 PM
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Re: Official Trump Presidency Thread, Part 3

I think there's just more trust in that generation. They were never lied to like we were, so we kind of expect it. People like my dad can remember a time with no television, so when television news became a thing, it was assumed to have the same veracity as previous sources. Go forward a few iterations, and each time it becomes less trustworthy. Which one is news, which one is entertainment, which one is opinion masquerading as news? They see Facebook Idiot, and give him the same credibility as Walter Cronkite.
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Old 04-24-19, 05:01 PM
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Re: Official Trump Presidency Thread, Part 3

Originally Posted by sracer View Post
And before social media, there was email. Before Aunt Sadie shared memes on Facebook, she was forwarding emails which were just as truthful (or not) as those memes.

I don't think that people generally are more gullible now than in the past, but the ubiquity of the internet has enabled more gullible people to be online.
Originally Posted by Paff View Post
Yup. Used to get those from my dad. While I'm not happy he's passed on, I do have to say I'm glad I never had to deal with Facebook stuff from him.
I get exactly what you two are saying... but what's going on with social media (and other sites) is far more complex and hyper-targeted than anything that has come before. In the examples you guys are talking about, it wasn't that those specific ideas were aimed at confusing/tricking Aunt Sadie or Paff's dad directly... they were just blasted out there and if they stuck with 10% or 5% or 1% of the audience, it was more out of luck than anything else, since it was impossible to know exactly who was listening or reading.

The advertisements, images, etc. on social media are an entirely different beast. You can dismiss it as being the same as your examples, but they're not, and I think that's a grave mistake. The 15-minute TED video from journalist Carole Cadwalladr goes over only some of the surface-level details, but the targeting is done in such a way that the ads are fed directly to to people that are marked as persuadable based on datamining of their FB pages, GPS data, connections, etc. and that's used to map out exactly what kind of persuasive messaging they're most susceptible to.

I'm not dismissing that it's just a variation of the same old disinformation game... it is. But what I'm saying is that it has been so finely tuned with vast amounts of money and data, that most of us who aren't deemed persuadable in a certain way, never even see the types of ads/messages that others see. And unless you're sitting next to Aunt Sadie as she scrolls through Facebook, you won't see the anti-vaxx stuff she sees.

As you guys have also said... there's a level of "trust" in that generation as well, but I don't think it's exclusive to them, as I see people my age (mid 30s) fall for the exact same anti-vaxx or alt-right trash that doesn't even come across my view unless they share it with me.

tl;dr - It's all about the algorithms, baby.
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Old 04-24-19, 05:52 PM
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Re: Official Trump Presidency Thread, Part 3

Originally Posted by Dan View Post
I get exactly what you two are saying... but what's going on with social media (and other sites) is far more complex and hyper-targeted than anything that has come before. In the examples you guys are talking about, it wasn't that those specific ideas were aimed at confusing/tricking Aunt Sadie or Paff's dad directly... they were just blasted out there and if they stuck with 10% or 5% or 1% of the audience, it was more out of luck than anything else, since it was impossible to know exactly who was listening or reading.

The advertisements, images, etc. on social media are an entirely different beast. You can dismiss it as being the same as your examples, but they're not, and I think that's a grave mistake. The 15-minute TED video from journalist Carole Cadwalladr goes over only some of the surface-level details, but the targeting is done in such a way that the ads are fed directly to to people that are marked as persuadable based on datamining of their FB pages, GPS data, connections, etc. and that's used to map out exactly what kind of persuasive messaging they're most susceptible to.

I'm not dismissing that it's just a variation of the same old disinformation game... it is. But what I'm saying is that it has been so finely tuned with vast amounts of money and data, that most of us who aren't deemed persuadable in a certain way, never even see the types of ads/messages that others see. And unless you're sitting next to Aunt Sadie as she scrolls through Facebook, you won't see the anti-vaxx stuff she sees.

As you guys have also said... there's a level of "trust" in that generation as well, but I don't think it's exclusive to them, as I see people my age (mid 30s) fall for the exact same anti-vaxx or alt-right trash that doesn't even come across my view unless they share it with me.

tl;dr - It's all about the algorithms, baby.
You make a well-reasoned argument.

Before social media was email and before email... tv commercials. Deceiving the gullible goes back to the first humans to walk the earth.

Social media is just another channel for deception to travel. There are unique characteristics to each channel, but nothing that is completely unique.

What the internet has done is to devalue facts... and by extension, expertise. Everybody thinks they have a voice, and that their voice has equal value. Wikipedia is a prime example.

THAT is the reason why anti-vaxx, anti-science, and the return of a belief in a flat-earth have grown... not because social media has a special mojo. Yes, social media helped to spread it.
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Old 04-24-19, 07:43 PM
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Re: Official Trump Presidency Thread, Part 3

We're doomed, aren't we?
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Old 04-24-19, 08:22 PM
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Re: Official Trump Presidency Thread, Part 3

No bro, the VA is broken as fuuuuuuuuuuuck! Despite what AOC may have said.
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Old 04-24-19, 08:37 PM
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Re: Official Trump Presidency Thread, Part 3

Yeah, I had to explain to my parents (in their late 70s) how so many of the memes they see on FB and the internet aren't factual. They honestly believe that if it's up there, it's true.
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Old 04-24-19, 08:38 PM
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Re: Official Trump Presidency Thread, Part 3

Originally Posted by Dan View Post
...

I'm not dismissing that it's just a variation of the same old disinformation game... it is. But what I'm saying is that it has been so finely tuned with vast amounts of money and data, that most of us who aren't deemed persuadable in a certain way, never even see the types of ads/messages that others see. And unless you're sitting next to Aunt Sadie as she scrolls through Facebook, you won't see the anti-vaxx stuff she sees.

As you guys have also said... there's a level of "trust" in that generation as well, but I don't think it's exclusive to them, as I see people my age (mid 30s) fall for the exact same anti-vaxx or alt-right trash that doesn't even come across my view unless they share it with me.

tl;dr - It's all about the algorithms, baby.
Yes. It's hubris to think that only certain people are gullible.


I'll go ahead and do the tl;dr recap for this as well- There is no firewall for the human mind. If information can access it, it is vulnerable.

.

Last edited by Paul_SD; 04-24-19 at 08:53 PM. Reason: trying to drink, drive, and link post at the same time
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Old 04-24-19, 11:41 PM
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Re: Official Trump Presidency Thread, Part 3

Originally Posted by Draven View Post
If social media convinced someone to not vaccinate their kids, then that's a stupid person.
I mean, if your point is "Only stupid people fall for propaganda, so I'm in favor of it continuing" then have at it.
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Old 04-24-19, 11:46 PM
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Re: Official Trump Presidency Thread, Part 3

Originally Posted by Paul_SD View Post
Yes. It's hubris to think that only certain people are gullible.



I'll go ahead and do the tl;dr recap for this as well- There is no firewall for the human mind. If information can access it, it is vulnerable.

.
One need only look at the meme thread to know that this is 100% true.
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Old 04-24-19, 11:47 PM
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Re: Official Trump Presidency Thread, Part 3

Originally Posted by Kurt D View Post
I mean, if your point is "Only stupid people fall for propaganda, so I'm in favor of it continuing" then have at it.
It’s not, but we need to stop acting like the actual voters aren’t the biggest problem here.
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Old 04-25-19, 12:48 AM
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Re: Official Trump Presidency Thread, Part 3

Originally Posted by Draven View Post

It’s not, but we need to stop acting like the actual voters aren’t the biggest problem here.
And what would you say makes them the problem?
Something influenced them to vote this way.
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Old 04-25-19, 12:53 AM
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Re: Official Trump Presidency Thread, Part 3

The fuck is this shit?


At this point, since the GOP won't let them do anything else, impeachment is the only action they can take. Heck, with shit like this trump's practically begging for impeachment.
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Old 04-25-19, 04:40 AM
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Re: Official Trump Presidency Thread, Part 3


​WASHINGTON — The Trump administration escalated its defiance of Congress on Wednesday, as the Justice Department refused to let an official testify on Capitol Hill and President Trump vowed to fight what he called a “ridiculous” subpoena ordering a former top aide to appear before lawmakers.

“We’re fighting all the subpoenas,” Mr. Trump told reporters outside the White House. “These aren’t, like, impartial people. The Democrats are trying to win 2020.”

​​​​​​
More ridiculous shit
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Old 04-25-19, 07:16 AM
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Re: Official Trump Presidency Thread, Part 3

Gas prices continue to climb, with the national average expected to hit $4/gallon this weekend:

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/gas-pri...us-2019-04-23/

Where the tweet from Trump accepting responsibility for the price increases? You know - like the one where he took credit for the prior drop in gas prices.
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Old 04-25-19, 07:17 AM
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Re: Official Trump Presidency Thread, Part 3

Fake news. Gas prices are actually dropping; you're just reading the signs incorrectly...
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