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Religion, Politics and World Events They make great dinner conversation, don't you think? plus Political Film

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Old 11-30-16, 12:27 PM   #26
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Re: What changes are needed in the Democratic Party?

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Originally Posted by chrisih8u View Post
They need to call everyone racist and misogynistic more.
It appears they should just BE more racist and misogynistic. Worked for Trump!

I hope they don't put a candidate up who's in the gutter as much as Trump is but as has been said, that ship has sailed. It's what the public wants.
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Old 11-30-16, 01:00 PM   #27
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Re: What changes are needed in the Democratic Party?

Trump got his cue from Democrats, especially over the last 4 years. Trump simply called Democrats out on their hypocrisy and they had no place to go...other than attempting to call him names and deflect from their failed policies.

If the policies had a clear proven and successful track record, Trump would have had a much more difficult time to present his case when it came to immigration and economic policies. But with Iran taking hostages and nothing happening to them, bags of money on planes where a President says was not ransom cash, and of course, Lady Corrupto, the odds were stacking against the Democrats, like a slowly boiling pot of water where a frog will deny there is any danger...and everything feels just fine.

I agree, this whole mess is what the public wants...at least in California. Pelosi does not particularly represent a "popular vote" situation. If it was a popular vote, I bet she would have been kicked out and Tim Ryan would have taken over with a very comfortable majority.
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Old 11-30-16, 01:03 PM   #28
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Re: What changes are needed in the Democratic Party?

maybe they can actually choose a nominee and not sabotage it for all the other candidates. Those emails sure as hell shedded light on it
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Old 11-30-16, 01:30 PM   #29
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Re: What changes are needed in the Democratic Party?

Do the two of you suggesting that they get Reid out know that Reid retired?

I find it humorous how all the Republicans are in this thread saying what the Democrats need to do so you will still not vote for them, but will what, like them more?
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Old 11-30-16, 02:06 PM   #30
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Re: What changes are needed in the Democratic Party?





Newsom/Booker 2020. Or Warren/Booker. Newson is still steeping.
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Old 11-30-16, 02:08 PM   #31
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Re: What changes are needed in the Democratic Party?

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Originally Posted by LurkerDan View Post
Do the two of you suggesting that they get Reid out know that Reid retired?

I find it humorous how all the Republicans are in this thread saying what the Democrats need to do so you will still not vote for them, but will what, like them more?
i voted for Obama twice.

im voting for the best candidate.
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Old 11-30-16, 02:13 PM   #32
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Re: What changes are needed in the Democratic Party?

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Old 11-30-16, 02:26 PM   #33
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Re: What changes are needed in the Democratic Party?

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i voted for Obama twice.

im voting for the best candidate.
didn't say everyone in the thread was that way, but looking through the thread, the most posts in the thread so far are from people who I know are not voting for a democrat, they're always choosing the giant douche over the turd sandwich.
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Old 11-30-16, 02:33 PM   #34
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Re: What changes are needed in the Democratic Party?

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Newsom/Booker 2020. Or Warren/Booker.
Oh great just what this country needs, another Muslim who wasn't born here.
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Old 11-30-16, 02:49 PM   #35
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Re: What changes are needed in the Democratic Party?

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Do the two of you suggesting that they get Reid out know that Reid retired?

I find it humorous how all the Republicans are in this thread saying what the Democrats need to do so you will still not vote for them, but will what, like them more?
See also: Republicans insisting that Keith Ellison is absolutely unfit to run the DNC because he maybe once said something nice about Louis Farrakhan.

Because Republicans are in a great position to be deciding what's beyond the pale in modern political discourse.
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Old 11-30-16, 02:55 PM   #36
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Re: What changes are needed in the Democratic Party?

I don't know if he'll gain any real traction and I don't know if the Dems will give in and allow an "outsider" but I think there's a very good chance Mark Cuban runs.

I know that before the election he said he wouldn't do it but I think the next few years will change his mind.

And I think he's the kind of guy the Dems need, at least right now.
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Old 11-30-16, 03:00 PM   #37
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Re: What changes are needed in the Democratic Party?

The Democrats shouldn't change at all. They should just spreading the "good news" about what a great job they are doing and repeating that anyone who won't "hear" the message is just a deplorable.

Seriously, they need to listen to their base, not demand their base listen to them. Of course, I should keep my mouth shut and not give them useful ideas.
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Old 11-30-16, 03:23 PM   #38
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Re: What changes are needed in the Democratic Party?

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Oh great just what this country needs, another Muslim who wasn't born here.
Trump married an immigrant, and is the son of immigrants.

I don't think we can trust him.
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Old 11-30-16, 03:28 PM   #39
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Re: What changes are needed in the Democratic Party?

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I don't think we can trust him.
Never thought this day would come, but I agree!
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Old 11-30-16, 03:37 PM   #40
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Re: What changes are needed in the Democratic Party?

Here's what I think. There's nothing "wrong" with the democratic party, but they do have some work to do.

One, they need to focus on state politics, they have ignored it for too long and it has bitten them hard. There is zero reason that states like Minnesota, Wisconsin, Michigan, Vermont (FFS!), Virginia, Nevada, North Carolina, and others are controlled solely by Republicans. That's not a function of better message, that's a function of better political maneuvering.

Second, they do need to clean up their act somewhat. If you are going to try to paint the other side as unscrupulous, you damn well better be squeaky clean. Obama administration did a great job overall on this, but HRC and the DNC not so much. I happen to think that what was uncovered is pretty much SOP at that level, but every party figure should write every email with the thought that the public might read it some day.

Third, charisma matters. Qualifications much less so. Focus on the candidates that can deliver their message in a way that it will be heard, not just the candidate that delivers the message with the best policy support.
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Old 11-30-16, 03:44 PM   #41
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Re: What changes are needed in the Democratic Party?

Minnesota has a Democratic governor. The Repubs did just take over the Senate though, which was disappointing.
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Old 11-30-16, 03:48 PM   #42
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Re: What changes are needed in the Democratic Party?

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Nancy Pelosi is totally unbeatable. Thatís a bad thing for Democrats.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...=.3710464672dd
Could it be the Washington Post sees a Problem with Pelosi.

Some observations from WP:

1. House Democrats are much more liberal than they were a decade ago.

2. Pelosi is a huge fundraiser.

Quote:
If you are a rank-and-file House Democrat (or really any Democrat not in leadership), that's not exactly the most encouraging sign about the future of the party. Win or lose, the leaders stay the leaders.
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Old 11-30-16, 03:55 PM   #43
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Re: What changes are needed in the Democratic Party?

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Minnesota has a Democratic governor. The Repubs did just take over the Senate though, which was disappointing.
Sorry, I meant legislatures.

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Originally Posted by DVD Polizei View Post
Could it be the Washington Post sees a Problem with Pelosi.

Some observations from WP:

1. House Democrats are much more liberal than they were a decade ago.

2. Pelosi is a huge fundraiser.
I will admit being stunned that there was not a revolt against Pelosi. She's a lightning rod for republicans and even independents; she needs to go.
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Old 11-30-16, 04:47 PM   #44
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Re: What changes are needed in the Democratic Party?

Tim Ryan has a lot of support behind him. He needs to use the same force as Trump did. When you have popularity, but not the power...circle the wagon. Ryan needs to get his support base together and circle Pelosi, hounding her every moment he can get. And target those who support her. Single them out. Pick them off. Eventually, Pelosi will just be an old crazy bag lady, holding a rotten stale bag of old policies.

Pelosi might have the power, but she doesn't necessarily have the popular vote. These kinds of people are powerful when they cling together, and distance themselves away from the people, making legislation, out of reach from the populace. Ryan can be embedded with the people, rally them, and begin a focus on 2020 as well as any upcoming seats in California where those who supported Pelosi...can be effectively tossed out. Pelosi is nothing without her rich base. Her rich base is nothing without her. Divide and conquer.
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Old 11-30-16, 05:05 PM   #45
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Re: What changes are needed in the Democratic Party?

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Tim Ryan has a lot of support behind him. He needs to use the same force as Trump did. When you have popularity, but not the power...circle the wagon. Ryan needs to get his support base together and circle Pelosi, hounding her every moment he can get. And target those who support her. Single them out. Pick them off. Eventually, Pelosi will just be an old crazy bag lady, holding a rotten stale bag of old policies.

Pelosi might have the power, but she doesn't necessarily have the popular vote. These kinds of people are powerful when they cling together, and distance themselves away from the people, making legislation, out of reach from the populace. Ryan can be embedded with the people, rally them, and begin a focus on 2020 as well as any upcoming seats in California where those who supported Pelosi...can be effectively tossed out. Pelosi is nothing without her rich base. Her rich base is nothing without her. Divide and conquer.
Not saying this wouldn't be an effective strategy to get Pelosi out. OTOH, Republicans would be laughing their asses off at this, and watching the democrats implode from within.
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Old 11-30-16, 05:35 PM   #46
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Re: What changes are needed in the Democratic Party?

Democrats and Liberals/Progressives have got to learn to sell their ideas to the opposition in the opposition's language.

For example: making the case that a more humane/ethical prison system reduces recidivism rates on the basis of it being more cost effective to the American taxpayer is the way to go. Trying to appeal to them on the basis of morality and conscience is a waste of time (see: THE ELECTION OF PRESIDENT TRUMP).

Or making the case that protecting our ECOSYSTEM (not "planet") is a beneficial to the life of all productive members of society. "The end of the ecosystem is the end of YOU."

Play the angle of self-interest to sell humane, sane, and sustainable ideas--because there often is a convergence...
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Old 11-30-16, 05:55 PM   #47
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Re: What changes are needed in the Democratic Party?

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Not saying this wouldn't be an effective strategy to get Pelosi out. OTOH, Republicans would be laughing their asses off at this, and watching the democrats implode from within.
It would be a painful process, but remember, Democrats laughed at Trump being the outsider, taking on the status quo...and look who's crying now.

Ryan could pull it off. In fact, Republicans could help him do it. Paul Ryan would be a potential obstacle on the Republican side but I doubt he'd be as friendly to Pelosi as he was before Trump was elected.

And if Republicans arranged something with Tim Ryan, such as legislation favoring his proposals and not Pelosi's, Pelosi would be given an incentive to step down when her next election for office comes up. Ryan has made some very simple but effective statements when discussing economics. He says that it's much more than just the minimum wage that is the issue with America. It's about jobs, business stimulation, the things that Republicans (more specifically, Trump) have said in the last year.

Eventually, people would see policies amazingly favoring Tim Ryan, how Republicans would be saying favorable things about him...and he would be almost certain to get Pelosi out. Just before this would happen, you'd see some of Pelosi's supporters favoring Ryan, sensing they were next if they didn't shape up. Some might even retire given their age.
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Old 11-30-16, 05:59 PM   #48
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Re: What changes are needed in the Democratic Party?

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Democrats and Liberals/Progressives have got to learn to sell their ideas to the opposition in the opposition's language.

For example: making the case that a more humane/ethical prison system reduces recidivism rates on the basis of it being more cost effective to the American taxpayer is the way to go. Trying to appeal to them on the basis of morality and conscience is a waste of time (see: THE ELECTION OF PRESIDENT TRUMP).

Or making the case that protecting our ECOSYSTEM (not "planet") is a beneficial to the life of all productive members of society. "The end of the ecosystem is the end of YOU."

Play the angle of self-interest to sell humane, sane, and sustainable ideas--because there often is a convergence...
I agree somewhat, but I also disagree on a major point. Here it is. If you try to appeal on morality and conscience...then you MUST be of good moral character and have a moral compass yourself. If you are not the product you sell...you shouldn't sell it. People will instinctively smell a rotten candidate.

So, whatever Democrats sell...it needs to be genuine...from a genuine candidate.

Additionally, one can bypass this protocol a little and might circumvent their own inadequacies to some degree...if they simply don't attack their opponent personally and stick with the issues, letting their opponent make the mistake of going personal and bringing morality into the campaign. If they do, and you're weak in the morality area, then you'll suffer a hit, but not as much if you continue to attack somebody on the same morality play, day after day.

As far as the Climate Change thing, I wouldn't make it an emotional argument. Make it a business argument. Make it common sense. Don't bring studies that can be easily dispelled by the opposing side. Just make common sense arguments that are simple. Make the argument so that it isn't so extreme. Don't tell people the world is going to come to an end if they don't act. That's for religious people.

But this begins with common sense policies on the environment, and not blatantly punishing people by removing choices altogether. Instead of penalizing people, reward those who go the extra mile. And then base a campaign off it. So, you'll need a city to be the example. Pick any one you want, have the city pass the legislation that rewards participants instead of inconveniencing the entire city and tourists, and banning things that did not have to be banned.

Have a city with this legislation where people are happy about it, participants have seen a realized reward, and then slap Tim Ryan's face on it along with supporters.

Pelosi likes to tax people. So this type of legislation will piss her off to no end. Ryan will begin winning over people by his Republican-ish lower taxes ideology while still being an environmentalist.
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Old 11-30-16, 06:10 PM   #49
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Re: What changes are needed in the Democratic Party?

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Sorry, I meant legislatures.



I will admit being stunned that there was not a revolt against Pelosi. She's a lightning rod for republicans and even independents; she needs to go.
Why should the House Democrats care that she's a lightning rod for Republican attacks? Any person in that seat will face the same thing.

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It would be a painful process, but remember, Democrats laughed at Trump being the outsider, taking on the status quo...and look who's crying now.

Ryan could pull it off. In fact, Republicans could help him do it. Paul Ryan would be a potential obstacle on the Republican side but I doubt he'd be as friendly to Pelosi as he was before Trump was elected.

And if Republicans arranged something with Tim Ryan, such as legislation favoring his proposals and not Pelosi's, Pelosi would be given an incentive to step down when her next election for office comes up. Ryan has made some very simple but effective statements when discussing economics. He says that it's much more than just the minimum wage that is the issue with America. It's about jobs, business stimulation, the things that Republicans (more specifically, Trump) have said in the last year.

Eventually, people would see policies amazingly favoring Tim Ryan, how Republicans would be saying favorable things about him...and he would be almost certain to get Pelosi out. Just before this would happen, you'd see some of Pelosi's supporters favoring Ryan, sensing they were next if they didn't shape up. Some might even retire given their age.
I can see the House Republican leadership trying something like this to drive a wedge between Democratic members. But the Freedom Caucus wouldn't support any sort of compromise with a Democrat, even if its true purpose was to damage the Democrats.
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Old 11-30-16, 06:13 PM   #50
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Re: What changes are needed in the Democratic Party?

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Or making the case that protecting our ECOSYSTEM (not "planet") is a beneficial to the life of all productive members of society. "The end of the ecosystem is the end of YOU."
I'll add one. Trade "climate change" for "pollution". Nobody wants a smog-filled atmosphere.
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