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You say Gun control i say gun rights let's call the whole thing off discussion

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You say Gun control i say gun rights let's call the whole thing off discussion

Old 03-08-19, 02:21 PM
  #1351  
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Re: You say Gun control i say gun rights let's call the whole thing off discussion

Now that you mention it, in London they've had the problem of knife, machete and sword attacks. I'm sure it will make it's way here at some point.

I loved Jarts and had them as a kid. Yes, in retrospect they were not an unsupervised kids game. My mother could take any activity and immediately determine how fatal it was. I'm surprised she never freaked out over a flying, weighted arrow we were throwing to each other. She and dad got into a rare fight when he got me a BB gun for Christmas when I was 8.

When I offer my information I always try to offer the pros and cons of a situation. I am very clear as far as my position. I also make it very clear I am not a full time LEO but I have been a Peace Officer and Court Deputy for 15 years. So I can honestly say my opinion is formed by firsthand experience in law enforcement, and conversations with police officers of every stripe, judges and the arrested/prisoners themselves.
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Old 03-08-19, 09:41 PM
  #1352  
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Re: You say Gun control i say gun rights let's call the whole thing off discussion

To me, the interesting thing about lawn darts is, IIR it was a single person (child) that was killed that resulted in the outright ban.

Absolutely not making light of the many injured by these darts or the death of that poor girl. But it didn’t take a lot for the dad to get the ban in place. The darts were being sold at the time under the understanding they could not be sold as toys or marketed to kids. The father lobbied that there was no way to keep,them out of kids hands.

This is is the frustrating part to me about guns. It makes no difference how many accidental deaths there are from guns. Everyone just yells “second amendment” and we move on.

If your curious about 500 accidental gun deaths per year by guns. And “no one” is trying to outright ban guns. Just make it harder to have these deaths. Yet it took one death by lawn darts and totally gone.

Last edited by Sdallnct; 03-08-19 at 09:48 PM.
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Old 03-09-19, 06:40 AM
  #1353  
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Re: You say Gun control i say gun rights let's call the whole thing off discussion

Originally Posted by Sdallnct View Post
This is is the frustrating part to me about guns. It makes no difference how many accidental deaths there are from guns. Everyone just yells ďsecond amendmentĒ and we move on.
If you mean do people hold the second amendment in high regard and take it seriously? The answer is yes, just like the 1st, 4th, 5th etc.
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Old 03-09-19, 07:21 AM
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Re: You say Gun control i say gun rights let's call the whole thing off discussion

Originally Posted by JimRochester View Post
If you mean do people hold the second amendment in high regard and take it seriously? The answer is yes, just like the 1st, 4th, 5th etc.
Itís not what I meant, but them Iím fairly certain you knew that.
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Old 03-09-19, 09:11 AM
  #1355  
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Re: You say Gun control i say gun rights let's call the whole thing off discussion

I understand that this is purely coincidental, but I don't know anyone who died in a mass shooting, or was even in one, but I actually know someone who died in an incident when a disgruntled (and mentally unstable) ex-employee returned to the grocery store he used to work at with a samurai sword and started hacking employees. Two died and like 10 were injured, and one of the deaths was the manager who I knew at the time, almost 20 years ago.
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Old 03-09-19, 04:26 PM
  #1356  
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Re: You say Gun control i say gun rights let's call the whole thing off discussion

Originally Posted by slop101 View Post
I understand that this is purely coincidental, but I don't know anyone who died in a mass shooting, or was even in one, but I actually know someone who died in an incident when a disgruntled (and mentally unstable) ex-employee returned to the grocery store he used to work at with a samurai sword and started hacking employees. Two died and like 10 were injured, and one of the deaths was the manager who I knew at the time, almost 20 years ago.
I think the word you're looking for is "anecdotal".
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Old 03-09-19, 06:25 PM
  #1357  
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Re: You say Gun control i say gun rights let's call the whole thing off discussion

I think it's more of a tragedy.

Two people died, and I sure wouldn't want to be the one walk up to them and say, "Well, you know those lawn darts are really dangerous and well, your situation was just, well, you know...anecdotal. So, good luck with any legislation because your cause is, well, anecdotal."
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Old 03-18-19, 09:36 AM
  #1358  
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Re: You say Gun control i say gun rights let's call the whole thing off discussion

This story is rather funny and scary at the same time.

https://www.tulsaworld.com/news/loca...07ea665e5.html
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Old 03-18-19, 09:48 AM
  #1359  
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Re: You say Gun control i say gun rights let's call the whole thing off discussion

Originally Posted by dsa_shea View Post
This story is rather funny and scary at the same time.

https://www.tulsaworld.com/news/loca...07ea665e5.html
Whats scary is they are removing all licensing. Shouldnít doing illegal drugs automatically make it so you canít get or carry a gun?
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Old 03-18-19, 09:50 AM
  #1360  
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Re: You say Gun control i say gun rights let's call the whole thing off discussion

What do guns and drugs have to do with each other? I kid. This is a scary situation we are heading into. The guy smokes meth and carries a gun around. He was also supposedly wearing a mask. A black man would have likely been shot and possibly killed under the exact same circumstances.
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Old 03-18-19, 10:22 AM
  #1361  
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Re: You say Gun control i say gun rights let's call the whole thing off discussion

Originally Posted by dsa_shea View Post
A black man would have likely been shot and possibly killed under the exact same circumstances.
That could easily have happened to a black man without the mask...or the gun.
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Old 03-18-19, 10:52 AM
  #1362  
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Re: You say Gun control i say gun rights let's call the whole thing off discussion

Originally Posted by Sdallnct View Post
Whats scary is they are removing all licensing. Shouldnít doing illegal drugs automatically make it so you canít get or carry a gun?
This happened in my state and I hate this law. This failed last year, but the with the new governor this was blasted through. I am for licensed carry, but this is a very scary situation.
Oklahoma just passed medical marijuana law and a ton of people have cards. I bet a lot of these people do not know that they are no longer allowed to own guns under the current law, but I am pretty sure there are no checks in place for this. And this is the thing I hate the most, we have so many gun laws that are not applied or systems that are not tied together to work with the current laws we have.
A semi-personal note, last week a friend of the family (i met him a few times) committed suicide with a gun. This person was a felon and had arrest since he felony, but he had guns in the house. His wife has a concealed carry license and "she" owns several, but with his history they should not have been in the house.
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Old 03-20-19, 11:42 AM
  #1363  
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Re: You say Gun control i say gun rights let's call the whole thing off discussion

I was standing behind a guy today at QT wearing an NRA shirt with "Keep Calm Carry A Gun" on the back. He had his open carry gun in a holster that had no safety devices like straps or anything else to keep the gun in place. He also had his right hand occupied. These people crack me up. I never understood having your gun out in the open so that people can pick you out of the crowd and keeping your gun hand/arm occupied while open carrying. A wily criminal could have easily slipped it up and out of the holster and killed him with it before he knew what happened. Use some common sense if you are going to carry.
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Old 03-21-19, 02:00 PM
  #1364  
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Re: You say Gun control i say gun rights let's call the whole thing off discussion

Originally Posted by dsa_shea View Post
I was standing behind a guy today at QT wearing an NRA shirt with "Keep Calm Carry A Gun" on the back. He had his open carry gun in a holster that had no safety devices like straps or anything else to keep the gun in place. He also had his right hand occupied. These people crack me up. I never understood having your gun out in the open so that people can pick you out of the crowd and keeping your gun hand/arm occupied while open carrying. A wily criminal could have easily slipped it up and out of the holster and killed him with it before he knew what happened. Use some common sense if you are going to carry.
With our law now, common sense is not required, only their god-given right!
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Old 03-21-19, 02:12 PM
  #1365  
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Re: You say Gun control i say gun rights let's call the whole thing off discussion

Originally Posted by slop101 View Post
I understand that this is purely coincidental, but I don't know anyone who died in a mass shooting, or was even in one, but I actually know someone who died in an incident when a disgruntled (and mentally unstable) ex-employee returned to the grocery store he used to work at with a samurai sword and started hacking employees. Two died and like 10 were injured, and one of the deaths was the manager who I knew at the time, almost 20 years ago.
Damn, man. That's seriously tragic.
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Old 03-21-19, 03:31 PM
  #1366  
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Re: You say Gun control i say gun rights let's call the whole thing off discussion

Originally Posted by dsa_shea View Post
I was standing behind a guy today at QT wearing an NRA shirt with "Keep Calm Carry A Gun" on the back. He had his open carry gun in a holster that had no safety devices like straps or anything else to keep the gun in place. He also had his right hand occupied. These people crack me up. I never understood having your gun out in the open so that people can pick you out of the crowd and keeping your gun hand/arm occupied while open carrying. A wily criminal could have easily slipped it up and out of the holster and killed him with it before he knew what happened. Use some common sense if you are going to carry.
In NY, open carry is prohibited except for law enforcement or security. On the other hand, because of what I do I can spot concealed pretty quickly. In fact I see it all the time. You'd be surprised at how many times in a day you are near or next to someone carrying and don't realize it. Ignorance is bliss in this case. The only time I'm really bothered is when people try to bring it into court. Dude, we make you put your cellphone in the car what makes you think you can bring a gun into court? Even with a permit they are banned in government buildings anyway.
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Old 03-21-19, 09:20 PM
  #1367  
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Re: You say Gun control i say gun rights let's call the whole thing off discussion

Originally Posted by JimRochester View Post
In NY, open carry is prohibited except for law enforcement or security. On the other hand, because of what I do I can spot concealed pretty quickly. In fact I see it all the time. You'd be surprised at how many times in a day you are near or next to someone carrying and don't realize it. Ignorance is bliss in this case. The only time I'm really bothered is when people try to bring it into court. Dude, we make you put your cellphone in the car what makes you think you can bring a gun into court? Even with a permit they are banned in government buildings anyway.
Really? Why are permitted conceal carry banned in government building? Court houses I get. But why all Federal Buildings?
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Old 03-22-19, 12:22 AM
  #1368  
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Re: You say Gun control i say gun rights let's call the whole thing off discussion

Originally Posted by Sdallnct View Post


Really? Why are permitted conceal carry banned in government building? Court houses I get. But why all Federal Buildings?
I wonder why they let the people in but don't allow their guns. I thought it was the people who were dangerous, not the guns. Huh.
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Old 03-22-19, 04:59 AM
  #1369  
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Re: You say Gun control i say gun rights let's call the whole thing off discussion

Originally Posted by Sdallnct View Post
Really? Why are permitted conceal carry banned in government building? Court houses I get. But why all Federal Buildings?
Yes it stems from the courts. Especially family court can get pretty testy.

NY has always had strict carry rules even after getting a permit. Even a valid carry permit was not valid in new york city proper. You had to be rich and/or connected (Trumps, Loughlins of the world) to get a permit for NYC. In spite of that for years NYC had a ton of gun crime. Much of that cleanup came from Giuliani cleaning up Times Square and proactive policing.

And to Draven's sarcasm, you actually need the two things together. A person can kill without a gun but the gun can't kill without the person. To date the rule has not prevented anyone from walking in intent on shooting people but I'm sure it makes people feel safer.
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Old 03-22-19, 05:25 AM
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Re: You say Gun control i say gun rights let's call the whole thing off discussion

A quick google seems to indicate it’s not just a NY thing. But guns, even permitted are not allowed in federal buildings. Or on federal property. There seems to be some exceptions for national parks.

It is ironic. It’s the government that issues permits, but even with such permit, they don’t want them on their property.

Tho I suppose technically it’s a state government that issues such permits. Wonder if states that permit allow those guns in state buildings like capitals,
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Old 03-22-19, 05:54 AM
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Re: You say Gun control i say gun rights let's call the whole thing off discussion

Originally Posted by Sdallnct View Post
A quick google seems to indicate itís not just a NY thing. But guns, even permitted are not allowed in federal buildings. Or on federal property. There seems to be some exceptions for national parks.

It is ironic. Itís the government that issues permits, but even with such permit, they donít want them on their property.

Tho I suppose technically itís a state government that issues such permits. Wonder if states that permit allow those guns in state buildings like capitals,
The government has long been a "do as I say, not as I do" kind of entity. Any of the anti-discrimination rules they set up for employers ie. age, sex, trans, etc., they discriminate on every day.
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Old 03-22-19, 06:37 AM
  #1372  
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Re: You say Gun control i say gun rights let's call the whole thing off discussion

Originally Posted by Sdallnct View Post
Tho I suppose technically itís a state government that issues such permits. Wonder if states that permit allow those guns in state buildings like capitals,
Not here in Ohio.
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Old 03-22-19, 07:52 PM
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Re: You say Gun control i say gun rights let's call the whole thing off discussion

We can carry in state and local government buildings in Alaska except for courthouses or any office buildings housing "justice related agencies".

Here is the scoop for AK (copied straight from alaska.gov):


In Alaska

Alaska Statutes Alaska Statutes 11.61.190 through 11.61.220 describe conduct with a weapon that is criminal. There is no prohibition against carrying a concealed weapon so long as the prohibited behaviors regarding the carry are respected:

The person is 21 years or older.
The person is eligible to own or possess a handgun under state and federal laws
The firearm is legal.
Upon contact with a peace officer, the person immediately informs the officer about the weapon, and allows the officer to secure the weapon for the duration of the contact.
The person does not carry the weapon if they are intoxicated or impaired by alcohol or controlled substances
The person does not carry the concealed weapon in certain places:
In someone else's home without their specific knowledge and permission
In any place where intoxicating liquor is sold for on-site consumption, except a restaurant and the person does not consume alcohol beverages
In or around any public or private K-12 school or on a school bus without the knowledge and consent of the school's administrator. (weapons may be unloaded and locked in the trunk of a car or secured in a locked container)
In or around a child care facility. (weapons may be unloaded and locked in the trunk of a car or secured in a locked container)
In a courthouse, court room, or office of the court system or justice related agencies
In domestic violence or sexual assault shelters.

Alaska's laws do not apply to federal property, offices, installations, or places under federal jurisdiction. Such places can include national parks, military bases, federal court buildings, space rented by federal offices, airports, or airport terminal areas. Please consult with the appropriate federal agency before deciding if weapon carry or concealed carry is permitted.

The owners or management of facilities, including such places as hospitals, universities, gymnasiums, or private property, may restrict or deny concealed carry on their premises. Failure to comply while on their property could violate trespass statutes.
By the way, even though it's not required in this state I do have my CC permit and would be more comfortable if everyone went through the class and got one before they started carrying either concealed or open. The bulk of the class as taught here is legal stuff and it's hammered home that unless you are truly about to get maimed or murdered you'd best keep it holstered.

Last edited by AGuyNamedMike; 03-22-19 at 08:04 PM.
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Old 03-31-19, 08:08 AM
  #1374  
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Re: You say Gun control i say gun rights let's call the whole thing off discussion

California blocks ban on high capacity magazines

S[COLOR=left=#2a2a2a]ACRAMENTO, Calif. — High-capacity gun magazines will remain legal in California under a ruling Friday by a federal judge who cited home invasions where a woman used the extra bullets in her weapon to kill an attacker while in two other cases women without additional ammunition ran out of bullets.[/COLOR]

[COLOR=left=#2a2a2a]"Individual liberty and freedom are not outmoded concepts," San Diego-based U.S. District Judge Roger Benitez wrote as he declared unconstitutional the law that would have banned possessing any magazines holding more than 10 bullets.[/COLOR]
Similar ban in the NY SAFE Act limiting to 7 was overturned.
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Old 03-31-19, 09:00 AM
  #1375  
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Re: You say Gun control i say gun rights let's call the whole thing off discussion

Originally Posted by JimRochester View Post
California blocks ban on high capacity magazines



Similar ban in the NY SAFE Act limiting to 7 was overturned.
So when bullets kill a bad guy, they are good. When bullets kill a innocent person they are not the bullets fault?

Love how the one side is allowed to trot out killing an intruder to play on emotions, while if the other side talks about kids being shot in school we are just “pandering to emotions”.

And that’s setting aside the fact that a gun in the home makes the home less safe, not more.
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