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Jonah Goldberg - "The Grand Myth of Live-And-Let-Live Liberalism"

Old 09-16-13, 09:28 PM
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Jonah Goldberg - "The Grand Myth of Live-And-Let-Live Liberalism"

The writer cites numerous examples of real world policies that are supported by liberals, and which are contrary to the claims of "live and let live" that liberals often claim to have. I think he makes some great points.


http://townhall.com/columnists/jonah...edium=facebook

The Grand Myth of Live-And-Let-Live Liberalism

By Jonah Goldberg

September 11, 2013

In Washington, D.C., the city's department of health wants to subject people seeking a tattoo or body piercing to a mandatory 24-hour waiting period before they can go through with it. That's just one of the regulations in a 66-page proposal of new rules for the tattoo and piercing industry.

Reasonable people may differ on the wisdom of these proposals, but as someone whose interest in such establishments begins and ends with keeping my daughter away from them, I can't get too worked up either way, save to say D.C. has bigger problems to worry about.

What did catch my eye was this line from the write-up in the metro section of the Washington Post: "The body art rules are the latest product of a city government that has occasionally struggled to reconcile its socially liberal sensibilities with a zeal for regulation."

As a conservative resident of Washington, D.C., where registered Republicans are outnumbered by about 9 to 1 and where truly conservative Republicans are outnumbered on a scale comparable to the predicament faced by Frodo and Sam when they sneaked into orc-infested Mordor, I find such statements hilarious.

There is a notion out there that being "socially liberal" means you're a libertarian at heart, a live-and-let-live sort of person who says "whatever floats your boat" a lot.

Alleged proof for this amusing myth (or pernicious lie, take your pick) comes in the form of liberal support for gay marriage and abortion rights, and opposition to a few things that smack of what some people call "traditional values."

The evidence disproving this adorable story of live-and-let-live liberalism comes in the form of pretty much everything else liberals say, do and believe.

Social liberalism is the foremost, predominant and in many instances sole impulse for zealous regulation in this country, particularly in big cities. I love it when liberals complain about a ridiculous bit of PC nanny-statism coming out of New York, L.A., Chicago, D.C., Seattle, etc. -- "What will they do next?"

Uh, sorry to tell you, but you are "they." Outside of a "Law and Order" script -- or an equally implausible MSNBC diatribe about who ruined Detroit -- conservatives have as much influence on big-city liberalism as the Knights of Malta.

Seriously, who else do people think are behind efforts to ban big sodas or sue hairdressers for charging women more than men? Who harasses little kids for making toy guns out of sticks, pop tarts or their own fingers? Who wants to regulate the air you breathe? The food you eat and the beverages you drink? Who wants to control your thermostat? Take your guns? Your cigarettes? Heck, your candy cigarettes? Who's in favor of speech codes on campuses and "hate crime" laws everywhere? Who's in favor of free speech when it comes to taxpayer-subsidized "art" and pornography (so long as you use a condom, if liberals get their way) but then bangs their spoons on their high chairs for strict regulations when it comes to political speech? Who loves meddling, finger-wagging billionaires like Michael Bloomberg when they use state power and taxpayer money to herd, bully and nudge people but thinks billionaires like the Koch brothers who want to shrink government are the root of all tyranny?

At the national level, who bypassed Congress to empower the EPA to regulate the atmosphere? Oh, and who pushed Obamacare on a country that didn't want it? Who defends bending the entire country -- including religious institutions -- into a national health-care scheme dedicated to the proposition of live and let live so long as you live the way the Department of Health and Human Services says you should?


Did legislative and bureaucratic gremlins sneak into government buildings at night and pass all of these rules and regulations while the social-liberal free-thinkers were off not judging people and refusing to harsh anybody's mellow?

Sure, today's liberalism does carry within it some genetic lineage to the classical liberalism -- i.e., libertarianism -- of J.S. Mill and John Locke. But genetic ties are overrated. After all, humans share half of our genes with bananas. (Look it up.)

Social liberalism -- better understood as progressivism -- is a worldview that seeks to use the state to support its preferred values and culture. That isn't libertarianism. Support for abortion rights does not make you a libertarian; it makes you someone who wants very lax regulations on abortion for ideological reasons. Which is why socially liberal bureaucrats in D.C. want to make you wait 24 hours to get a tattoo of a baby on your arm, but there's no waiting to have an abortion.
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Old 09-16-13, 09:57 PM
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Re: Jonah Goldberg - "The Grand Myth of Live-And-Let-Live Liberalism"

Do conservatives ever sell their own philosophy without bashing liberals/progressives? Or do they even sell their philosophy?

It seems like conservatives define themselves by their opponents.
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Old 09-16-13, 10:14 PM
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Re: Jonah Goldberg - "The Grand Myth of Live-And-Let-Live Liberalism"

Do liberals claim to have a live and let live philosophy?

Both sides stick their noses into things they shouldn't.
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Old 09-16-13, 10:35 PM
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Re: Jonah Goldberg - "The Grand Myth of Live-And-Let-Live Liberalism"

Funny thing is, Democrats sold their entire campaign on not being the other guy. Now, I can't tell the difference. Same types of legislation that have no purpose being in a person's life, in addition to making justifications for war, and telling other countries how they should behave.

So, when Democrats say something like, "Well, during the Bush administration, it was much worse..." I have to respond with, "Well, you're not any better, but you said you would be, and you promised Americans you would be. Basically, your party lied."

In this respect, Democrats have failed Americans and America.
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Old 09-16-13, 11:49 PM
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Re: Jonah Goldberg - "The Grand Myth of Live-And-Let-Live Liberalism"

Tu quoque.
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Old 09-17-13, 12:53 AM
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Re: Jonah Goldberg - "The Grand Myth of Live-And-Let-Live Liberalism"

I started a thread about political correctness a while back, and wouldn't you know, it was locked within 24 hours. I'll post the same clips here, because they perfectly illustrate the core difference between conservative and liberal America.

<iframe width="640" height="360" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/V0GCuqQPztk?feature=player_detailpage" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

<iframe width="640" height="360" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/DKHsyadN_lE?feature=player_embedded" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
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Old 09-17-13, 01:00 AM
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Re: Jonah Goldberg - "The Grand Myth of Live-And-Let-Live Liberalism"

"Enjoy these videos which will take up 18 minutes of your life because I'm too fucking lazy to spend 5 minutes typing out a single thought of my own."
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Old 09-17-13, 01:05 AM
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Re: Jonah Goldberg - "The Grand Myth of Live-And-Let-Live Liberalism"

Originally Posted by DaveyJoe View Post
"Enjoy these videos which will take up 18 minutes of your life because I'm too fucking lazy to spend 5 minutes typing out a single thought of my own."
It takes a lot less time to say something than type it; that's why I post videos so much. Transcribing those videos would take me at least four times their combined length.
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Old 09-17-13, 01:33 AM
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Re: Jonah Goldberg - "The Grand Myth of Live-And-Let-Live Liberalism"

Why don't you try using your own words instead? Or is my asking you to do that yet another example of the persecution and political correctness that you must battle every day of your woe-begotten life?
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Old 09-17-13, 01:52 AM
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Re: Jonah Goldberg - "The Grand Myth of Live-And-Let-Live Liberalism"

Originally Posted by JasonF View Post
Why don't you try using your own words instead? Or is my asking you to do that yet another example of the persecution and political correctness that you must battle every day of your woe-begotten life?
I'd wind up saying the same thing Brad does in those clips, because I agree with him.
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Old 09-17-13, 05:25 AM
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Re: Jonah Goldberg - "The Grand Myth of Live-And-Let-Live Liberalism"

Originally Posted by moviefan2k4 View Post
I'd wind up saying the same thing Brad does in those clips, because I agree with him.
Then say it. Paraphrase it if you have to, but take the time to spell out your (read: others) thoughts rather than just posting a link to a video that no one is going to watch.

That's right. No one. You always say "it's worth it if even one person watches it." No one watches these.
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Old 09-17-13, 05:35 AM
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Re: Jonah Goldberg - "The Grand Myth of Live-And-Let-Live Liberalism"

So nobody else has to watch the Brad Stine video: In his routine, he has a joke about eating at a Chinese restaurant that didn't have silverware, poking fun at how chopsticks don't make an American restaurant authentically Chinese. Some kids complained because he said chopsticks were inferior to silverware, and Pepperdine canceled a show he was supposed to have there as a result. He thinks that's censorship and that everyone should have the right to listen to his incredible insights.

First, it's not censorship. That's nonsense. Second, I seriously doubt his perception of what happened. In all likelihood, either his joke was more offensive than he lets on, or (more likely imo) the kids who complained exaggerated to make it more offensive and Pepperdine found it easier to just cancel him than hold court and determine whether or not there was something wrong with his routine.
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Old 09-17-13, 06:51 AM
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Re: Jonah Goldberg - "The Grand Myth of Live-And-Let-Live Liberalism"

Originally Posted by maxfisher View Post
So nobody else has to watch the Brad Stine video: In his routine, he has a joke about eating at a Chinese restaurant that didn't have silverware, poking fun at how chopsticks don't make an American restaurant authentically Chinese. Some kids complained because he said chopsticks were inferior to silverware, and Pepperdine canceled a show he was supposed to have there as a result. He thinks that's censorship and that everyone should have the right to listen to his incredible insights.

First, it's not censorship. That's nonsense. Second, I seriously doubt his perception of what happened. In all likelihood, either his joke was more offensive than he lets on, or (more likely imo) the kids who complained exaggerated to make it more offensive and Pepperdine found it easier to just cancel him than hold court and determine whether or not there was something wrong with his routine.
So it was censorship.
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Old 09-17-13, 07:28 AM
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Re: Jonah Goldberg - "The Grand Myth of Live-And-Let-Live Liberalism"

Originally Posted by arminius View Post
So it was censorship.
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/censoring

: a person who examines books, movies, letters, etc., and removes things that are considered to be offensive, immoral, harmful to society, etc.
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Old 09-17-13, 08:32 AM
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Re: Jonah Goldberg - "The Grand Myth of Live-And-Let-Live Liberalism"

Someone on the Internet misunderstanding the concept of censorship? WHAT???
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Old 09-17-13, 08:37 AM
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Re: Jonah Goldberg - "The Grand Myth of Live-And-Let-Live Liberalism"

Originally Posted by moviefan2k4 View Post
I started a thread about political correctness a while back, and wouldn't you know, it was locked within 24 hours. I'll post the same clips here, because they perfectly illustrate the core difference between conservative and liberal America.
So instead of posting someone of intellectual knowledge to explain the difference you post 2 unfunny dipshits instead. Good job.
Brad Stine makes Pauly Shore look like a comic genius.
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Old 09-17-13, 09:37 AM
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Re: Jonah Goldberg - "The Grand Myth of Live-And-Let-Live Liberalism"

Originally Posted by arminius View Post
So it was censorship.
If the dictionary definition GreenMonkey posted isn't enough for you to figure it out, the right to say something doesn't include the right to have someone pay you for saying it. It's amazing how many people fail to grasp that.
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Old 09-17-13, 09:53 AM
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Re: Jonah Goldberg - "The Grand Myth of Live-And-Let-Live Liberalism"

Originally Posted by DVD Polizei View Post
Funny thing is, Democrats sold their entire campaign on not being the other guy. Now, I can't tell the difference. Same types of legislation that have no purpose being in a person's life, in addition to making justifications for war, and telling other countries how they should behave.

So, when Democrats say something like, "Well, during the Bush administration, it was much worse..." I have to respond with, "Well, you're not any better, but you said you would be, and you promised Americans you would be. Basically, your party lied."

In this respect, Democrats have failed Americans and America.
Health care, gay marriage, legalized marijuana, end of Iraq, bin Laden dead.

/Drops mic
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Old 09-17-13, 10:25 AM
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Re: Jonah Goldberg - "The Grand Myth of Live-And-Let-Live Liberalism"

Originally Posted by maxfisher View Post
If the dictionary definition GreenMonkey posted isn't enough for you to figure it out, the right to say something doesn't include the right to have someone pay you for saying it. It's amazing how many people fail to grasp that.
Come on! Everyone knows censorship is when anybody anywhere objects to something a conservative says. This is distinct from patriotism, an example of which would be when people held mass burnings of Dixie Chicks albums in response to their criticisms of President Bush.
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Old 09-17-13, 10:38 AM
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Re: Jonah Goldberg - "The Grand Myth of Live-And-Let-Live Liberalism"

I never really deemed myself a "liberal", but I suppose by standards, I am. I don't know why it has taken on a "bad"connatation. It's a belief system. I certainly view world events as they happen, and my reaction to them, I suppose, is how I was raised, how I think, what makes sense to me. I don't have a standard this is how liberals view things response. I think for myself.
But if I had to describe my thinking, I think this quote says it best. It isn't whatever floats your boat thinking..it goes more like this:


“If by a "Liberal" they mean someone who looks ahead and not behind, someone who welcomes new ideas without rigid reactions, someone who cares about the welfare of the people-their health, their housing, their schools, their jobs, their civil rights and their civil liberties-someone who believes we can break through the stalemate and suspicions that grip us in our policies abroad, if that is what they mean by a "Liberal", then I'm proud to say I'm a "Liberal.” - JFK Profiles in Courage
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Old 09-17-13, 10:46 AM
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Re: Jonah Goldberg - "The Grand Myth of Live-And-Let-Live Liberalism"

Isn't the OP just one massive generalization of liberals?

I can think the kids getting in trouble for Pop Tart guns is dumb and still be a liberal.
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Old 09-17-13, 10:49 AM
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Re: Jonah Goldberg - "The Grand Myth of Live-And-Let-Live Liberalism"

Jonah Goldberg has a remarkable ability for repeating the talking points I've already heard, and delivering them without trying to add anything of his own. Not everyone is capable of being that obedient. The RNC must be very pleased when they read his columns.
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Old 09-17-13, 10:59 AM
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Re: Jonah Goldberg - "The Grand Myth of Live-And-Let-Live Liberalism"

Originally Posted by Rockmjd23 View Post
I don't know if we should trust a guy with that Jewish a name.
A true conservative would have an American name and belive in Jesus.
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Old 09-17-13, 11:02 AM
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Re: Jonah Goldberg - "The Grand Myth of Live-And-Let-Live Liberalism"

Originally Posted by moviefan2k4 View Post
I started a thread about political correctness a while back, and wouldn't you know, it was locked within 24 hours. I'll post the same clips here, because they perfectly illustrate the core difference between conservative and liberal America.

<iframe width="640" height="360" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/V0GCuqQPztk?feature=player_detailpage" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

<iframe width="640" height="360" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/DKHsyadN_lE?feature=player_embedded" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
I think you will find that this video answers a lot of questions!

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/RB3g6mXLEKk?list=PL6D440558124742F5" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
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Old 09-17-13, 11:40 AM
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Re: Jonah Goldberg - "The Grand Myth of Live-And-Let-Live Liberalism"

Originally Posted by dave-o View Post
I think you will find that this video answers a lot of questions!

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/RB3g6mXLEKk?list=PL6D440558124742F5" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
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