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When does human life begin?

Old 07-18-13, 11:18 AM
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When does human life begin?

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/07/19/us...-law.html?_r=0

When do you consider human life to begin? What should be the cutoff time, if any, for abortion?
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Old 07-18-13, 11:24 AM
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Re: When does human life begin?

Moving to Politics for obvious reasons.
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Old 07-18-13, 11:29 AM
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Re: When does human life begin?

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Old 07-18-13, 11:29 AM
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Re: When does human life begin?

This is going to go well ...
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Old 07-18-13, 11:33 AM
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Re: When does human life begin?

75th trimester.
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Old 07-18-13, 11:34 AM
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Re: When does human life begin?

<img src=http://www.woodworkingtalk.com/attachments/f15/34152d1324832318-one-life-begins-40-engraved-.jpg>
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Old 07-18-13, 11:39 AM
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Re: When does human life begin?

There appear to be two key parts of the new Texas law:

1. Effectively banning abortions after 20 weeks. Not sure if the law allows for the typical incest/save the life of the mother loopholes or not.

2. Require abortion clinic doctors to have admitting privileges at a nearby hospital, which few of the current doctors have, apparently.

Roe v. Wade set the framework for outright abortion bans at as little as 24 weeks, so any law that undercuts that (as the new Texas law and several others that already exist do) runs the risk of being thrown out by Federal courts. Even with that, 20 weeks is 4 2/3 months. That's a pretty long window for someone to receive an abortion and I don't really consider a 20 weeks rule to be particularly insidious on its own.

It's the second part of the law that is the problem. It was pretty clearly intended to force the closure of many of the states 41 or 42 existing clinics under the guise of promoting patient safety. I'm not sure what studies and figures the government has cited to bolster its patient safety claims, but I doubt seriously that they are going to stand up to Federal judicial scrutiny. I would wager that a Federal injunction will but the kibosh on at least this portion of the law long before its scheduled implementation date.
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Old 07-18-13, 11:43 AM
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Re: When does human life begin?

when you hear the heartbeat...
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Old 07-18-13, 11:53 AM
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Re: When does human life begin?

When does human life begin?

When you look a girl in the eye and know that she will be the one.

That's what I tell chicks when I'm down in the bible belt. Then I tell them if they don't fuck me it's an abortion. But then I cum on their tits and hop a filght back to the civilized world.
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Old 07-18-13, 11:54 AM
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Re: When does human life begin?

At the tip of my penis.
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Old 07-18-13, 11:55 AM
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Re: When does human life begin?

When you are capable of surviving without assistance (around 27 years old, these days).

Or when your mother decides you aren't going to be a burden on her other plans?

Honest answer: I don't know when "life begins." But when there is even the potential for life, I think we are to protect it. So to me, this is right around fertilization. Intentionally terminating pregnancy is, in my opinion, killing the baby or what would eventually be a baby. So the question to me becomes, as horrific as it may sound, is there ever a justifiable time to kill a baby? This is something I have wrestled with personally as some may recall. I believe the answer is of course "no" in any ordinary circumstance. If you are able to bring the child into the world, you have the responsibility to do so in almost any situation. But in situations where death (of the baby or mother) is a significant factor, there is no obvious answer. How do you decide between one life or another? What if the baby is never going to survive the birth? And in those difficult situations, I think we need to carefully consider more factors than the age of the child (while not pretending that it's anything less).

In other words, morally speaking, I don't view a fetus much differently than a newborn child.

Last edited by Th0r S1mpson; 07-18-13 at 12:13 PM.
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Old 07-18-13, 11:56 AM
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Re: When does human life begin?

It varies depending upon the country you are in... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legal_drinking_age
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Old 07-18-13, 12:09 PM
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Re: When does human life begin?

18 years of age. Anything younger than that should be legally eligible for termination at any time by the parent(s) or any other adult who completes the appropriate paperwork.
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Old 07-18-13, 12:11 PM
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Re: When does human life begin?

The later the pregnancy, the sketchier it gets for me. I don't have a hard and fast line though.
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Old 07-18-13, 12:12 PM
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Re: When does human life begin?

When the cord is cut and the baby is able to eat and breath "on its own"
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Old 07-18-13, 12:16 PM
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Re: When does human life begin?

Human life begins at conception. After fertilization, any attempt to destroy the baby equals murder.
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Old 07-18-13, 12:29 PM
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Re: When does human life begin?

Originally Posted by VinVega View Post
The later the pregnancy, the sketchier it gets for me. I don't have a hard and fast line though.
I think that "life" begins at conception, but I don't feel comfortable saying that a clump of cells is a "human." I also think that there is no fundamental difference between a baby one day after it's born and one day before it's born.

So I think that human life begins at some point after conception but before birth. And I don't know how people will ever be able to reach any type of consensus for a specific time between those events. Which is why this debate will go on in perpetuity.
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Old 07-18-13, 12:43 PM
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Re: When does human life begin?

Originally Posted by RoyalTea View Post
So I think that human life begins at some point after conception but before birth. And I don't know how people will ever be able to reach any type of consensus for a specific time between those events. Which is why this debate will go on in perpetuity.
I agree. But rather than this being why the debate should endure, I find it to be the reason the debate should end.

In the absence of knowing whether it is human life or not, our moral responsibility is to assume that it is.

Say there are 9 people holding cardboard boxes, the contents of which are unknown... some have babies in them, some have sacks of flour. Would we ever say it's okay for some of the people to throw their box off a bridge without the knowledge of what's inside? In the absence of that knowledge, we err on the side of not destroying a life.
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Old 07-18-13, 12:48 PM
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Re: When does human life begin?

Originally Posted by VinVega View Post
The later the pregnancy, the sketchier it gets for me. I don't have a hard and fast line though.
..is that your answer to the OP's question, or are those your standards for potential hook-up partners?
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Old 07-18-13, 01:08 PM
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Re: When does human life begin?

Originally Posted by RoyalTea View Post
I think that "life" begins at conception, but I don't feel comfortable saying that a clump of cells is a "human." I also think that there is no fundamental difference between a baby one day after it's born and one day before it's born.

So I think that human life begins at some point after conception but before birth. And I don't know how people will ever be able to reach any type of consensus for a specific time between those events. Which is why this debate will go on in perpetuity.
Do you think medical technology will progress to the point where a fetus could be extracted easily and painlessly and grown outside of the womb? And then adopted out? Would that end this debate? Or would women still fight for the right to destroy the fetus?
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Old 07-18-13, 01:14 PM
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Re: When does human life begin?

Originally Posted by Th0r S1mpson View Post
I agree. But rather than this being why the debate should endure, I find it to be the reason the debate should end.

In the absence of knowing whether it is human life or not, our moral responsibility is to assume that it is.

Say there are 9 people holding cardboard boxes, the contents of which are unknown... some have babies in them, some have sacks of flour. Would we ever say it's okay for some of the people to throw their box off a bridge without the knowledge of what's inside? In the absence of that knowledge, we err on the side of not destroying a life.
In theory, I agree. But in reality, some people just shouldn't be parents.

If a drug-addicted, unemployed, teenaged, high school dropout, gets pregnant and knows that she'll never have the financial resources to get just herself out of this cycle of poverty, let alone any children she brings into this world and thinks that she'd make a terrible mother, do we really want to convince her she's wrong?
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Old 07-18-13, 01:19 PM
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Re: When does human life begin?

Originally Posted by RoyalTea View Post
In theory, I agree. But in reality, some people just shouldn't be parents.

If a drug-addicted, unemployed, teenaged, high school dropout, gets pregnant and knows that she'll never have the financial resources to get just herself out of this cycle of poverty, let alone any children she brings into this world and thinks that she'd make a terrible mother, do we really want to convince her she's wrong?
Do we want to? Well, it's certainly not convenient.

If a drug-addicted, unemployed, teenaged, high school dropout has a newborn baby that she'll never have the financial resources to get just herself out of this cycle of poverty, let alone any children she brings into this world and thinks that she'd make a terrible mother...

Either way, she's in a tough place. It's too bad she got pregnant if she's not going to be able to care for the baby. We should help her, not kill the baby.
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Old 07-18-13, 01:26 PM
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Re: When does human life begin?

Originally Posted by chrisih8u View Post
Do you think medical technology will progress to the point where a fetus could be extracted easily and painlessly and grown outside of the womb? And then adopted out? Would that end this debate? Or would women still fight for the right to destroy the fetus?
Who's going to adopt all these kids?

Not to sound like kids are mere commodities, and it might be a little crass to look at this on a micro-economic level, but in the marketplace of adoption, is there excess supply or excess demand? If there are still kids in orphanages, or still kids who are bouncing around in foster-homes as opposed to being outright adopted, I'm guessing that there is excess supply. And if abortion were ever outlawed because science created artificial wombs, that's just going to add another 1-2 million kids to the adoption market.

If we allow same sex couples to marry and adopt, that's a great way to increase demand. But we're supposed to believe that it's much, much worse for a kid to grow up in a loving household with two parents who have the same naughty parts than it is for a kid to grow up in an orphanage house.
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Old 07-18-13, 01:29 PM
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Re: When does human life begin?

Originally Posted by Me007gold View Post
When the cord is cut and the baby is able to eat and breath "on its own"
People are obviously starting to hedge their bets.
http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/health/2...-cut-the-cord/
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Old 07-18-13, 01:29 PM
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Re: When does human life begin?

Begins with conception.

Ends with the "fall" down the stairs.







Okay, I'm kidding.
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