Religion, Politics and World Events They make great dinner conversation, don't you think? plus Political Film
View Poll Results: Assuming it's between consenting adults, which types of marriage should be legal?
Marriage legal for gays, incestuous couples & polygamists
44.00%
Marriage legal for gays & incestuous couples, illegal for polygamists
2.67%
Marriage legal for gays & polygamists, illegal for incestuous couples
16.00%
Marriage legal for incestuous couples & polygamists, illegal for gays
1.33%
Marriage legal for gays, illegal for incestuous couples & polygamists
21.33%
Marriage legal for incestuous couples, illegal for gays & polygamists
1.33%
Marriage legal for polygamists, illegal for gays & incestuous couples
1.33%
Marriage illegal for gays, incestuous couples & polygamists
4.00%
Marriage legal for twickoff
8.00%
Voters: 75. You may not vote on this poll

Polling Views on Non-Traditional Marriages

Old 07-05-13, 12:17 PM
  #501  
DVD Talk Hero
 
CRM114's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Posts: 42,731
Re: Polling Views on Non-Traditional Marriages

Originally Posted by dvdjunkie32 View Post
Typical atheist response - the atheist is ALWAYS right and the supreme expert in every field of knowledge. The Christian never once makes a valid true point.
I just think that is your perception since the atheist has no burden of proof and starts the argument with an advantage. The atheist need not argue anything outlandish or anything that requires "faith". He/she argues with reason which makes it appear sanctimonious to those who are not listening.
CRM114 is offline  
Old 07-05-13, 12:26 PM
  #502  
DVD Talk Legend
 
Sean O'Hara's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Vichy America
Posts: 13,535
Re: Polling Views on Non-Traditional Marriages

Originally Posted by dvdjunkie32 View Post
And the dustbins of history show that societies which fully embrace homosexuality tend to be obliterated. Sin breeds destruction and evil men rarely die happy.
Care to name some examples? With dates of when they embraced homosexuality and when they were destroyed -- none of this, "And five hundred years later..." crap.
Sean O'Hara is offline  
Old 07-05-13, 12:37 PM
  #503  
DVD Talk Legend
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Lompoc, CA
Posts: 11,460
Re: Polling Views on Non-Traditional Marriages

Originally Posted by dave-o View Post
Well said Adam, well said. A little human empathy can go a long way, regardless of one's beliefs...
...thanks. And don't get me started on how *few* religions or churches can stand on their own without an "evil other"--right outside the church door--to prop them up, maintain "god's people" status & churn donations. It's always a struggle to let go of that.

I have faith that they'll see the light in time; mostly because I believe religion is man-made and ultimately knows where its bread is buttered. Theology has always been far more susceptible to social norms than any other single determinant, not that that can be admitted by most who indulge in it.
adamblast is offline  
Old 07-05-13, 12:43 PM
  #504  
Banned by request
 
Supermallet's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: Termite Terrace
Posts: 54,156
Re: Polling Views on Non-Traditional Marriages

Originally Posted by dvdjunkie32 View Post
And the dustbins of history show that societies which fully embrace homosexuality tend to be obliterated. Sin breeds destruction and evil men rarely die happy.
You are adorable!
Supermallet is offline  
Old 07-05-13, 12:47 PM
  #505  
DVD Talk Legend
 
Hokeyboy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Fort Lauderdale, FL
Posts: 18,997
Re: Polling Views on Non-Traditional Marriages

Since dvdjunkie32 is a notably erudite when it comes to history: if I recall correctly, there was one empire in recent living memory that actively set out to socially eradicate homosexuality instead of embrace it. How'd that turn out for them? Dustbin territory or a mild Swiffing?

Spoiler:
Hokeyboy is offline  
Old 07-05-13, 12:49 PM
  #506  
DVD Talk Legend
 
Hokeyboy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Fort Lauderdale, FL
Posts: 18,997
Re: Polling Views on Non-Traditional Marriages

(Could be construed as Godwinning, but given the conversation I thought it had more than a dash of apropos-ness, plus Brian Dennehy...)
Hokeyboy is offline  
Old 07-05-13, 01:14 PM
  #507  
Moderator
 
wendersfan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Nuova Repubblica di SalÚ
Posts: 32,794
Re: Polling Views on Non-Traditional Marriages

Yes, but just because not A is false doesn't make A true.

There's always the possibility, however remote, that factors completely unrelated to gay rights might have been the undoing of civilizations and nation-states throughout history.
wendersfan is offline  
Old 07-05-13, 01:24 PM
  #508  
DVD Talk Legend
 
Hokeyboy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Fort Lauderdale, FL
Posts: 18,997
Re: Polling Views on Non-Traditional Marriages

Global warming and pirates, man...
Hokeyboy is offline  
Old 07-05-13, 01:28 PM
  #509  
DVD Talk Hero
 
JasonF's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Washington, DC
Posts: 39,465
Re: Polling Views on Non-Traditional Marriages

Originally Posted by dvdjunkie32 View Post
Then show me the law that contains an exception clause for gays in regards to wills. If I sign a will and name someone as a beneficiary then they have legal right to my inheritance, family or not.
You continue to miss the point, so I will spell it out as clearly as I can:

1. In the context of inheritance, a straight couple automatically gets rights that a gay couple needs to spend money on lawyers to get.

2. Wills can be challenged in a way that automatic spousal inheritance can not.

3. Even if a gay couple has a will, without legal recognition of their marriage, the surviving partner's inheritance will be taxed differently more than a spouse's inheritance would be.
JasonF is offline  
Old 07-05-13, 01:36 PM
  #510  
DVD Talk Ultimate Edition
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 4,201
Re: Polling Views on Non-Traditional Marriages

Originally Posted by JasonF View Post
You continue to miss the point, so I will spell it out as clearly as I can:

1. In the context of inheritance, a straight couple automatically gets rights that a gay couple needs to spend money on lawyers to get.

2. Wills can be challenged in a way that automatic spousal inheritance can not.

3. Even if a gay couple has a will, without legal recognition of their marriage, the surviving partner's inheritance will be taxed differently more than a spouse's inheritance would be.
Thank you, but since you failed to present a post in a non-condescending fashion, I have no reason to take any of your comments at face value.
dvdjunkie32 is offline  
Old 07-05-13, 01:48 PM
  #511  
DVD Talk Ultimate Edition
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Unknown
Posts: 4,091
Re: Polling Views on Non-Traditional Marriages

Originally Posted by JasonF View Post
You continue to miss the point, so I will spell it out as clearly as I can:

1. In the context of inheritance, a straight couple automatically gets rights that a gay couple needs to spend money on lawyers to get.

2. Wills can be challenged in a way that automatic spousal inheritance can not.

3. Even if a gay couple has a will, without legal recognition of their marriage, the surviving partner's inheritance will be taxed differently more than a spouse's inheritance would be.
So in other words you can't show him a law that excludes gay people from wills? Nice try atheist!

Am I doing this right?
dave-o is offline  
Old 07-05-13, 01:49 PM
  #512  
DVD Talk Legend
 
Sean O'Hara's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Vichy America
Posts: 13,535
Re: Polling Views on Non-Traditional Marriages

Originally Posted by dvdjunkie32 View Post
Thank you, but since you failed to present a post in a non-condescending fashion, I have no reason to take any of your comments at face value.
In other words he hit you with facts and now you don't feel like arguing anymore.
Sean O'Hara is offline  
Old 07-05-13, 01:50 PM
  #513  
DVD Talk Ultimate Edition
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Unknown
Posts: 4,091
Re: Polling Views on Non-Traditional Marriages

Originally Posted by dvdjunkie32 View Post
Thank you, but since you failed to present a post in a non-condescending fashion, I have no reason to take any of your comments at face value.
I knew I should've went with that one!
dave-o is offline  
Old 07-05-13, 01:53 PM
  #514  
DVD Talk Ultimate Edition
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Unknown
Posts: 4,091
Re: Polling Views on Non-Traditional Marriages

Originally Posted by Sean O'Hara View Post
In other words he hit you with facts and now you don't feel like arguing anymore.
Yeah, but they were facts laced with condescension, so they don't count! Hah!
dave-o is offline  
Old 07-05-13, 02:22 PM
  #515  
Moderator
 
wendersfan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Nuova Repubblica di SalÚ
Posts: 32,794
Re: Polling Views on Non-Traditional Marriages

Originally Posted by dvdjunkie32 View Post
Thank you, but since you failed to present a post in a non-condescending fashion, I have no reason to take any of your comments at face value.
Please don't lie (to us or to yourself) - you have no reason because you don't want to accept that you are wrong. And I'm sorry, but there's not an easy way to tell someone they are completely and utterly wrong about something and have that person not think you aren't being condescending.
wendersfan is offline  
Old 07-05-13, 02:37 PM
  #516  
DVD Talk Legend
 
Hokeyboy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Fort Lauderdale, FL
Posts: 18,997
Re: Polling Views on Non-Traditional Marriages

Originally Posted by dvdjunkie32 View Post
Thank you, but since you failed to present a post in a non-condescending fashion, I have no reason to take any of your comments at face value.
So either you have no argument, or you're a coward. Righteous!
Hokeyboy is offline  
Old 07-05-13, 02:38 PM
  #517  
DVD Talk Ultimate Edition
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 4,201
Re: Polling Views on Non-Traditional Marriages

Originally Posted by Sean O'Hara View Post
In other words he hit you with facts and now you don't feel like arguing anymore.
No, a fact would be something SPECIFIC with no room for dispute. He failed miserably on both accounts with generalizations.

The condescending rhetoric is nothing more than tactics of desperation. If you truly believed that I am so extremly ignorant and stupid then why waste your time responding to me? That's like trying to teach advanced physics to a retarded person and then berating them for not understanding, continuing to teach it, and berating some more.
dvdjunkie32 is offline  
Old 07-05-13, 02:45 PM
  #518  
DVD Talk Hero
 
JasonF's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Washington, DC
Posts: 39,465
Re: Polling Views on Non-Traditional Marriages

Originally Posted by dvdjunkie32 View Post
No, a fact would be something SPECIFIC with no room for dispute. He failed miserably on both accounts with generalizations.

The condescending rhetoric is nothing more than tactics of desperation. If you truly believed that I am so extremly ignorant and stupid then why waste your time responding to me? That's like trying to teach advanced physics to a retarded person and then berating them for not understanding, continuing to teach it, and berating some more.
I apologize that you found my post condescending.

Can you explain what SPECIFIC information you are looking for? I made three points that I think are fairly non-disputable:

1. Wills cost money
2. Wills can be challenged
3. Inheritance by will is taxable in a way spousal inheritance is not.

Which of these do you need more information about?
JasonF is offline  
Old 07-05-13, 03:30 PM
  #519  
DVD Talk Ultimate Edition
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 4,201
Re: Polling Views on Non-Traditional Marriages

Originally Posted by JasonF View Post
I apologize that you found my post condescending.

Can you explain what SPECIFIC information you are looking for? I made three points that I think are fairly non-disputable:

1. Wills cost money
2. Wills can be challenged
3. Inheritance by will is taxable in a way spousal inheritance is not.

Which of these do you need more information about?
Thank you. So I will address your points:

1. Yes, wills cost money, but we're not talking about a something that is a huge expense. It can usually be done for less than $500 and even for free if you are low income. There's really no good argument for being without a will. Settling an inheritance without a will can result in much more expensive lawyer fees and cause permanent damage to relationships.

Also, in some states, a couple must be married for a certain number of years before they can receive 100% inheritance.


2. A will can be contested, but this is very hard to prove without strong evidence. A decent lawyer would prevent such pitfalls when drawing up the will. It varies from state to state.


3. I'm willing to give you this one. I don't know enough about inheritance taxes to challenge your comment.
dvdjunkie32 is offline  
Old 07-05-13, 03:52 PM
  #520  
DVD Talk Ultimate Edition
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Unknown
Posts: 4,091
Re: Polling Views on Non-Traditional Marriages

Originally Posted by dvdjunkie32 View Post
Thank you. So I will address your points:

1. Yes, wills cost money, but we're not talking about a something that is a huge expense. It can usually be done for less than $500 and even for free if you are low income. There's really no good argument for being without a will. Settling an inheritance without a will can result in much more expensive lawyer fees and cause permanent damage to relationships.

Also, in some states, a couple must be married for a certain number of years before they can receive 100% inheritance.


2. A will can be contested, but this is very hard to prove without strong evidence. A decent lawyer would prevent such pitfalls when drawing up the will. It varies from state to state.


3. I'm willing to give you this one. I don't know enough about inheritance taxes to challenge your comment.
So you agree that this would be a burden that gay people have to face that others don't? Excellent! We are making progress...

You do know that you don't have to argue against everything that opposes your viewpoint right? Take number three for example. You don't have to challenge it. It's a a well known fact. You could even look it up and confirm it yourself if you are skeptical! It's like any admission of error or any acknowledgement that the other side raises a good point competely invalidates your whole belief system in your mind. It doesn't have to be like that. There are lots of colors other than black and white in the world!
dave-o is offline  
Old 07-05-13, 04:14 PM
  #521  
Video Game Talk Reviewer
 
Canis Firebrand's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 1999
Location: Formerly known as "Vryce"/Detroit, Michigan
Posts: 13,857
Re: Polling Views on Non-Traditional Marriages

Originally Posted by dave-o View Post
So you agree that this would be a burden that gay people have to face that others don't? Excellent! We are making progress...

You do know that you don't have to argue against everything that opposes your viewpoint right? Take number three for example. You don't have to challenge it. It's a a well known fact. You could even look it up and confirm it yourself if you are skeptical! It's like any admission of error or any acknowledgement that the other side raises a good point competely invalidates your whole belief system in your mind. It doesn't have to be like that. There are lots of colors other than black and white in the world!
To go along with what you are saying, It's an unfair burden on same-sex relationships/marriage that isn't present in a heterosexual relationship/marriage. Because the same-sex relationship doesn't have the inherent protections that would be present if same-sex marriage were treated the same as heterosexual marriage. And even after going through all that with a will, etc, it can be challenged if the family of one doesn't approve of the relationship or a hospital staff member not agreeing with the lifestyle and barring the partner because they aren't married or family.

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/pR9gyloyOjM" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/0...n_1499673.html

Gay Man Honors Boyfriend's Death With Poignant Video Noting Lack Of Rights Offered To Unwed Same-Sex Couples

Posted: 05/08/2012 10:43 am

A California-based gay man is marking the one-year anniversary of his boyfriend's untimely death with a new video that's both a poignant memorial and a testimony to the lack of rights provided to same-sex couples barred from getting married under current laws.

Titled "It Could Happen To You," the clip contains heartwarming anecdotes about the relationship between Shane Bitney Crone and Tom Bridegroom, who were committed to one another for six years. "We started a business, owned a home and traveled the world together," Crone, a Montana native, recalls in the video.

But after the pair decided to come out to their families, Crone says Bridegroom's parents were outraged. "When Tom returned to Indiana to visit his parents for Christmas, his father threatened him with a gun and physically attacked him."

After Bridegroom's untimely death on May 7, 2011, Crone was barred from attending the funeral and wake, and wasn't mentioned in the obituary. His experience trying to obtain information from the hospital was similarly unsuccessful. "To Tom's family, I no longer existed, and to the government, Tom and I were mere roommates," Crone notes.

Crone concludes: "I need to fight for what's right. I need to fight for what I believe in and I can't just stand back anymore. Maybe that's why this all happened, maybe this is part of the reason...is to open my eyes and to inspire me to want to make a change and to want to fight for equality."

Last edited by Canis Firebrand; 07-05-13 at 04:25 PM.
Canis Firebrand is offline  
Old 07-05-13, 05:49 PM
  #522  
DVD Talk Hero
 
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: Rosemount, MN
Posts: 31,455
Re: Polling Views on Non-Traditional Marriages

That's what dvdjunkie thinks is an acceptable outcome. How very sad.

But again, it's easy to make like hard for people when it doesn't affect you at all.
Draven is offline  
Old 07-05-13, 07:49 PM
  #523  
Banned
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 21,582
Re: Polling Views on Non-Traditional Marriages

As a mod, shouldn't you be warning yourself against interjecting irrelevant posts into the conversation?
creekdipper is offline  
Old 07-05-13, 07:57 PM
  #524  
Banned
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 21,582
Re: Polling Views on Non-Traditional Marriages

Originally Posted by RoyalTea View Post
So now you're saying it's NOT a sin?
Are you just being a sly pup, or is this a serious question?

On the offhand chance of the latter, I'll bite: You said (paraphrasing) that you were a straight man offering compassion to sinners. I was merely pointing out that your "compassion" (and I don't recall exactly how you described how you demonstrate this) will earn you disdain from the targets of your compassion whenever you describe their behavior (which they see as perfectly natural or even God-ordained) as 'sin'.

While I would agree that all churches should be open to having people (especially unrepentant sinners) hear the preaching of the Word (the primary means of conviction and conversion), do you think that those who are openly living in defiance of God's laws should be accepted as members of the body of Christ? Remember that the requirements for being accepted as a follower of Christ were to 'repent and be baptized'. Mere belief was not enough...although actions do not save, actions do give evidence of true conversion.

Do you believe in church discipline (one of the three marks of a true church?) that keeps the church pure?
creekdipper is offline  
Old 07-05-13, 09:41 PM
  #525  
DVD Talk Hero
 
Josh-da-man's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: The Bible Belt
Posts: 31,011
Re: Polling Views on Non-Traditional Marriages

Originally Posted by Hokeyboy View Post
(Could be construed as Godwinning, but given the conversation I thought it had more than a dash of apropos-ness, plus Brian Dennehy...)


Godwin's Law has been dead for a while now.

It really only existed in the first place to shield conservatives; now that they're accusing everyone who disagrees with them of nazism and fascism, they can't really play that card anymore.
Josh-da-man is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Archive Advertising Cookie Policy Privacy Statement Terms of Service

Copyright © 2018 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.