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The "Cops Behaving Badly" Thread

Old 08-01-15, 05:26 PM
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Re: The "Cops Behaving Badly" Thread

Originally Posted by CaptainMarvel View Post
I'm sorry, was "Is it their job to drive recklessly so they can injure their suspect without getting in trouble for it?" an earnest question? Because it seemed like a flippant bit of rhetoric to me.
It was somewhere in the middle.


Originally Posted by CaptainMarvel View Post
You acknowledge that even good officers are getting caught up as "collateral damage" out of one side of your mouth, while blathering about how "close to we are to a police state" out of the other. I'm not quite sure how you handle the cognitive dissonance.
I don't see those as mutually exclusive. Good cops who want to help their community certainly don't benefit from an increasingly toxic relationship between police and civilians across the nation. Blathering? Is it so hard to be respectful?
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Old 08-02-15, 05:14 PM
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Re: The "Cops Behaving Badly" Thread

This video below has gone viral.

I wish more cops would be like this guy lol

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/tz95O1OQCH0" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
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Old 08-02-15, 06:05 PM
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Re: The "Cops Behaving Badly" Thread

Good for him, but who fucking cares? It's not news when a cop is doing his job, doing what is expected of him/her - it's news when they don't do what they should be doing.
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Old 08-02-15, 08:16 PM
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Re: The "Cops Behaving Badly" Thread

I think he is popular because he is colorful not because he is doing his job.
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Old 08-03-15, 08:40 AM
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Re: The "Cops Behaving Badly" Thread

Power of video will be tested at CMPD officer’s trial

http://www.thestate.com/news/local/c...e29793568.html
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Old 08-03-15, 01:12 PM
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Re: The "Cops Behaving Badly" Thread

Originally Posted by DaveyJoe View Post
Blathering? Is it so hard to be respectful?
It's hard to be respectful when you're always right.
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Old 08-03-15, 02:55 PM
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Re: The "Cops Behaving Badly" Thread

Originally Posted by LurkerDan View Post
It's hard to be respectful when you're always right.
Peculiar thing: it's a lot easier to be "always right" when you stick to your areas of expertise. Which is one of the reasons you won't see me venture out into making some didactic-yet-incorrect post about "small claims" court, for example.

A few people are here for actual discussion, and I'm perfectly happy to have a conversation with them (see Psi last page). Some are just here to get their daily "two minutes hate" on for the police, and they couldn't care less if the "cops behaving badly" they're discussing might not actually be behaving "badly" after all (e.g., people fussing about an "illegal" stop a few weeks back that wasn't even illegal). Those people are just looking for any excuse however flimsy to fling their poo, so I don't respect them, nor do I care if they respect me. I'm not going to ever change their minds. Nobody is. You could set out a respectful, point-by-point refutation with embedded links to case law and studies showing why they're wrong, and at best you'll end up with radio silence until they resurface to post the next video or screed.

So if some idea they spew is worthy of derision (like the notion of an "encroaching police state" at a time when police are under more scrutiny than ever, even for the lawful performance of their duties), I'll deride away.
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Old 08-03-15, 03:27 PM
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Re: The "Cops Behaving Badly" Thread

Originally Posted by CaptainMarvel View Post

Some are just here to get their daily "two minutes hate" on for the police, and they couldn't care less if the "cops behaving badly" they're discussing might not actually be behaving "badly" after all (e.g., people fussing about an "illegal" stop a few weeks back that wasn't even illegal).
Wrong. People care because often the Laws, designed to protect Cops and not citizens, back their fucked up behavior in may cases. Your links are great. They Show how a cop can kill/beat/arrest someone and have the law back them even when things are kinda weird. So it's not about just coming to hate on COPS. It's about having issues with the ENTIRE FUCKIN' System, of which Cops are a visible part of.

I would guess most here, my self included, are cool with DECENT "GOOD" COPS...it's the ones who fuck up that deserve some harshness.
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Old 08-03-15, 04:10 PM
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Re: The "Cops Behaving Badly" Thread

Originally Posted by Giantrobo View Post
Wrong. People care because often the Laws, designed to protect Cops and not citizens, back their fucked up behavior in may cases. Your links are great. They Show how a cop can kill/beat/arrest someone and have the law back them even when things are kinda weird. So it's not about just coming to hate on COPS. It's about having issues with the ENTIRE FUCKIN' System, of which Cops are a visible part of.
Then you don't have a problem with "cops," you have a problem with the law (among a great many other things, apparently... it would probably be easier to make a list of things that aren't unfair). So maybe you should start a "The Law Sucks" thread to address that? Because a cop behaving in a manner consistent with 1) the law, 2) his agency's policy, and 3) accepted professional practices is doing his job, pretty much by definition. He's not behaving badly (even if he has to "kill/beat/arrest"... all of which are in fact sometimes parts of the job) because some person with a chip on their shoulders and a perpetual victim complex thinks things are mumbleKindaWeirdmumble.

I would guess most here, my self included, are cool with DECENT "GOOD" COPS...it's the ones who fuck up that deserve some harshness.
Yes, yes, that's great. "Cops who fuck up" deserve harshness while "DECENT 'GOOD' COPS" don't. That's a very helpful, almost-tautological definition. Of course, it helps when the people who define "cops who fuck up" have some sort of actual, objective standards for what that actually means. As opposed to those who pay lip service to that distinction, but then in practice define it to basically mean all officers, or all officers except for a "certain few" they user to bolster their cred (like racists who are "totally not racist" because they have friends of that race).
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Old 08-03-15, 04:39 PM
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Re: The "Cops Behaving Badly" Thread

Originally Posted by CaptainMarvel View Post
Then you don't have a problem with "cops," you have a problem with the law (among a great many other things, apparently... it would probably be easier to make a list of things that aren't unfair). So maybe you should start a "The Law Sucks" thread to address that? Because a cop behaving in a manner consistent with 1) the law, 2) his agency's policy, and 3) accepted professional practices is doing his job, pretty much by definition. He's not behaving badly (even if he has to "kill/beat/arrest"... all of which are in fact sometimes parts of the job) because some person with a chip on their shoulders and a perpetual victim complex thinks things are mumbleKindaWeirdmumble.
Uhm, yes. I said that.


Yes, yes, that's great. "Cops who fuck up" deserve harshness while "DECENT 'GOOD' COPS" don't. That's a very helpful, almost-tautological definition. Of course, it helps when the people who define "cops who fuck up" have some sort of actual, objective standards for what that actually means. As opposed to those who pay lip service to that distinction, but then in practice define it to basically mean all officers, or all officers except for a "certain few" they user to bolster their cred (like racists who are "totally not racist" because they have friends of that race).
Wow. But ok... You act as if I created this thread.

I'm just saying the so called "Good Cop" is out there. I know he/she exists and one day he/she will rise up and put an end to the bullshit backed by ,1) the law, 2) his agency's policy, and 3) accepted professional practices and break that Thin Blue Line. He/she will once again earn the trust and respect of the citizens. I don't expect this to happen anytime soon or in my lifetime, but it is the Hope that many cling to. Til then, we will continue to be killed, beaten, arrested on trumped up charges because after all it's all, 1) the law, 2) his agency's policy, and 3) accepted professional practices by America Law Enforcement.
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Old 08-03-15, 04:57 PM
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Re: The "Cops Behaving Badly" Thread

"I don't dislike all cops, just the bad ones. And by 'bad ones,' I mean the ones who enforce the law."

I suddenly feel so wrong about my earlier assessment.
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Old 08-03-15, 05:02 PM
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Re: The "Cops Behaving Badly" Thread

I'm just saying the so called "Good Cop" is out there. I know he/she exists and one day he/she will rise up and put an end to the bullshit backed by ,1) the law, 2) his agency's policy, and 3) accepted professional practices and break that Thin Blue Line. He/she will once again earn the trust and respect of the citizens. I don't expect this to happen anytime soon or in my lifetime, but it is the Hope that many cling to. Til then, we will continue to be killed, beaten, arrested on trumped up charges because after all it's all, 1) the law, 2) his agency's policy, and 3) accepted professional practices by America Law Enforcement.
I don't know the stats off hand, but I suspect there's 100s of thousands of interactions between the public and the various LEOs within the US everyday. Considering the VAST majority of these don't create the sort of incidents we are talking about here I just can't see the world through your eyes. I mean the way you make it sound is that every officer has nothing else on their agenda for the day except to go out and find some sort of minority to pick on. Most of the ones I know are primarily concerned w/ making sure they go home at night w/ the same number of body parts/in the same location they arrived at the station w/.
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Old 08-03-15, 05:09 PM
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Re: The "Cops Behaving Badly" Thread

Originally Posted by CaptainMarvel View Post
"I don't dislike all cops, just the bad ones. And by 'bad ones,' I mean the ones who enforce the law."

I suddenly feel so wrong about my earlier assessment.
Twist what I said all you want Officer. I'm sure that's part of 1) the law, 2) his agency's policy, and 3) accepted professional practices too.
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Old 08-03-15, 05:19 PM
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Re: The "Cops Behaving Badly" Thread

Originally Posted by nemein View Post
I don't know the stats off hand, but I suspect there's 100s of thousands of interactions between the public and the various LEOs within the US everyday. Considering the VAST majority of these don't create the sort of incidents we are talking about here I just can't see the world through your eyes. I mean the way you make it sound is that every officer has nothing else on their agenda for the day except to go out and find some sort of minority to pick on. Most of the ones I know are primarily concerned w/ making sure they go home at night w/ the same number of body parts/in the same location they arrived at the station w/.
Like I said, there are GOOD COPS. Not sure why that part is getting missed.
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Old 08-03-15, 05:19 PM
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Re: The "Cops Behaving Badly" Thread

No, it's cool. One day maybe the "good cop" according to your own subjective definition will arise and... what, overthrow the entire legal system? Because if you think the law and legal systems are themselves just corrupt, I'm not sure how law enforcement is exactly supposed to function.
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Old 08-03-15, 05:24 PM
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Re: The "Cops Behaving Badly" Thread

Originally Posted by CaptainMarvel View Post
No, it's cool. One day maybe the "good cop" according to your own subjective definition will arise and... what, overthrow the entire legal system? Because if you think the law and legal systems are themselves just corrupt, I'm not sure how law enforcement is exactly supposed to function.
Naw. Not overthrow the law and legal systems. Some Lawyer has to do that. Just work towards healing the relationship between LEO's and Civis.
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Old 08-03-15, 05:45 PM
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Re: The "Cops Behaving Badly" Thread

Originally Posted by Giantrobo View Post
Naw. Not overthrow the law and legal systems. Some Lawyer has to do that. Just work towards healing the relationship between LEO's and Civis.
"Healing the relationship" sounds great and means utterly nothing with the parameters you've set. If enforcing the actual law is such a terror to you, what precisely do you imagine police doing? Putting out fires? Baking?
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Old 08-03-15, 06:06 PM
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Re: The "Cops Behaving Badly" Thread

Originally Posted by CaptainMarvel View Post
Then you don't have a problem with "cops," you have a problem with the law (among a great many other things, apparently... it would probably be easier to make a list of things that aren't unfair). So maybe you should start a "The Law Sucks" thread to address that? Because a cop behaving in a manner consistent with 1) the law, 2) his agency's policy, and 3) accepted professional practices is doing his job, pretty much by definition. He's not behaving badly (even if he has to "kill/beat/arrest"... all of which are in fact sometimes parts of the job) because some person with a chip on their shoulders and a perpetual victim complex thinks things are mumbleKindaWeirdmumble.
Damn right. The cops are just following orders. The idea that people can get in trouble for following orders from their government that lead to the death of innocent people is preposterous. Who would ever support such a thing?
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Old 08-03-15, 06:20 PM
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Re: The "Cops Behaving Badly" Thread

Originally Posted by Sean O'Hara View Post
Damn right. The cops are just following orders. The idea that people can get in trouble for following orders from their government that lead to the death of innocent people is preposterous. Who would ever support such a thing?
Putting aside the fact that you're ignoring the bit about how those three things I mentioned (law, policy, professional standards) each emphasize trying to protect innocent life, does this count as a Godwin?
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Old 08-03-15, 06:37 PM
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Re: The "Cops Behaving Badly" Thread

Originally Posted by nemein View Post
I don't know the stats off hand, but I suspect there's 100s of thousands of interactions between the public and the various LEOs within the US everyday. Considering the VAST majority of these don't create the sort of incidents we are talking about here I just can't see the world through your eyes. I mean the way you make it sound is that every officer has nothing else on their agenda for the day except to go out and find some sort of minority to pick on. Most of the ones I know are primarily concerned w/ making sure they go home at night w/ the same number of body parts/in the same location they arrived at the station w/.
I posted it earlier in the thread. The percentage of interactions with police that turn into questionable behavior/complaints/lawsuits/etc., especially when compared to professions like doctors is far, far lower. They have a much larger percentage of their interactions which result in lawsuits. I did not find a % in either case where the lawsuits were found to be frivolous but we know they are there in both cases.

Originally Posted by inri222 View Post
Sorry that you did not get my point, I'm just a member of the stupid ignorant public and don't know what I'm talking about.
We finally found something we agree on.

It's been said numerous times. Law enforcement like all professions have their share of bad ones too. Think about what you do for a living, if there are none of your competitors or colleagues that you think are poor at their job, then you are the one the others are disparaging.

We should have a thread about doctors behaving badly. Depending on the source there are anywhere from 44,000 - 98,000 deaths, out of the 2.5 million annually that are a result of medical malpractice.

There are between 8000 and 12,000 firearm related deaths.

The most recent year I could find was 2011. There were 1100+ police related shootings. In those 607 people died. In 5% of those total shootings police were sued for improper use of force. There was no final tally on how many were ultimately found to be improper in the article.

Although they comprise 15% of the population, the vast majority of murders (50%) are black victims by black perpetrators.

We've had some jerk-off cops around here. A sergeant high on coke rear ended a car stalled on the expressway and took off. The pregnant driver gave birth prematurely. He was ultimately found guilty and went to the slammer.

A guy in the same department was using his badge to coerce women into sex. "If you don't bang me I'll report this weed to your probation officer". He also went to the slammer along with the chief of the dept. who was convicted of trying to cover it up.

There are more than 1 million LEO's in the country. Like all professions, 99% go about their job like professionals and don't end up on CNN.


I've been meaning to post since the discussion about speed and having lights and siren on. A few posts back a guy ran into the road in the path of an oncoming officer traveling at a high rate of speed without his lights and siren. A couple years ago a young boy on a bike was hit and killed by a police car on its way to call. There were multiple cars on their way to a violence in progress call so they were speeding with lights and sirens. Apparently after the first car passed the sound of subsequent cars was obscured by the first. He road his bike out into the street into the path of the second car and was killed. The uproar followed. Why were they driving fast? Why did they have their sirens on, it made things worse? Basically everything they did was supposedly wrong. So no matter how things happen, it is very easy to find people that think they know a better way.

Our own local department came under criticism when they surrounded an apartment after a call about a man with mental issues with a gun. At the end of the night the man killed himself and the family tried suing the police. They claimed they just should have left him alone and he would have gotten bored and put the gun down.
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Old 08-03-15, 07:09 PM
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Re: The "Cops Behaving Badly" Thread

Originally Posted by CaptainMarvel View Post
"Healing the relationship" sounds great and means utterly nothing with the parameters you've set. If enforcing the actual law is such a terror to you, what precisely do you imagine police doing? Putting out fires? Baking?
It's almost as if a healing relationship between Leo's and Civilians is a Evil Thing to you. It's like some unimaginable fairy tale. Maybe you're right.

I KNOW there are cops out there NOT treating people like shit when they don't have to...NOT arresting people on BS charges...NOT covering up for Bad Cops out of fear....NOT needing to negatively escalate situations because their training is top notch. I truly believe this.

But frankly if some cops can't handle police work without treating the public like shit maybe they should go bake or firefight..
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Old 08-03-15, 07:12 PM
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Re: The "Cops Behaving Badly" Thread

The best first step would be ending the drug war.
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Old 08-03-15, 08:19 PM
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Re: The "Cops Behaving Badly" Thread

Originally Posted by Giantrobo View Post
It's almost as if a healing relationship between Leo's and Civilians is a Evil Thing to you. It's like some unimaginable fairy tale. Maybe you're right.
No, it's not. We're at a low ebb currently, which is the same thing that happened in the early 90's. Same as the 70's. It's cyclical. It will recover, and I'm in favor of reasonable efforts to help it do so more quickly. But there are a certain percentage of looney tunes out there who will never be sated no matter what actions are taken, and I frankly don't give a shit about reconciling with those people. You can't make everybody happy, and it's futile to try to placate those that won't even accept the legitimacy of the law in the first place, or the ones who will generate an excuse for every criminal ("Oh, the guy with the warrants resisted arrest? Must be because of historical fears about police abuse, not because he didn't want to go to jail"), or racists who can't break out of the reflexive equation that "black + police = police wrong" and see each encounter on its own merits.

I KNOW there are cops out there NOT treating people like shit when they don't have to...NOT arresting people on BS charges...NOT covering up for Bad Cops out of fear....NOT needing to negatively escalate situations because their training is top notch. I truly believe this.
You act like you're talking about a unicorn. Those cops are most of the cops. Do you have any idea how many uses of force there would be if cops were out there "escalating" situations all, or most, or even a substantial minority of the time? Virtually every actual metric out there says that your irrational prejudices are just that.

I have no idea why I'm wasting my time with you at this point. There are other people here who can have discussions without acting in bad faith. Like I said previously, I can link studies, and statistics, and case law to refute assertions of actual fact, but I can't do anything to address stubborn irrational prejudices.
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Old 08-04-15, 01:28 AM
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Re: The "Cops Behaving Badly" Thread

alcohol bottle from Sam DuBose video contained only air freshener according to coroner.

http://www.10news.com/news/u-s-world...-air-freshener
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Old 08-04-15, 07:29 AM
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Re: The "Cops Behaving Badly" Thread

Originally Posted by CaptainMarvel View Post
No, it's cool. One day maybe the "good cop" according to your own subjective definition will arise and... what, overthrow the entire legal system? Because if you think the law and legal systems are themselves just corrupt, I'm not sure how law enforcement is exactly supposed to function.
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