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USA / Iran Nuclear Megathread

Old 07-14-15, 02:02 PM
  #226  
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Re: Attack on Iran nuclear facilities "imminent"?

Originally Posted by JasonF View Post
Obama is playing his usual games of trying to make something sound like it isn't. Have you been reading the details of this agreement? Have you been reading what Iran said NO to and we said "oh ok". Like surprise inspections? That's out. Only timed inspections of places Iran chooses. So we're going to go somewhere Iran decides and see nothing nefarious going on and that's "verification". That's a bunch of crap. But.. that's what this deal is based on. Crap.

SO, you know, the American people believe the president that inspections are happening and that Iran is in check where meanwhile none of that is true but there's enough idiots to believe it. So I'm sure he'll pat himself on the back until the time comes when Iran does finally get a nuke and then he'll say "We didn't see this coming!" and everyone will believe that too.
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Old 07-14-15, 02:13 PM
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Re: Attack on Iran nuclear facilities "imminent"?

I like the quaint idea that we will be able to stop Iran from developing a nuclear weapon forever and ever.

Perhaps, a better idea and place to put energy is attempting to appeal to the more moderate forces in Iran? Nah, let's just bomb the fuck out of them and starve their people.
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Old 07-14-15, 02:15 PM
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Re: Attack on Iran nuclear facilities "imminent"?

Comparing the two events is rather interesting.

In any case, China owns our ass as well.

Hey, I have an idea. Let's negotiate with Putin!
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Old 07-14-15, 02:37 PM
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Re: Attack on Iran nuclear facilities "imminent"?

Originally Posted by CRM114 View Post
I like the quaint idea that we will be able to stop Iran from developing a nuclear weapon forever and ever.

Perhaps, a better idea and place to put energy is attempting to appeal to the more moderate forces in Iran?
Delay for as long as possible while doing what's in your 2nd sentence.

What do those against this deal propose?

- More sanctions? Yeah, that worked so well with North Korea...

And I'm just going to ignore the "bomb the shit out of them" crowd, including those in the 'I' country.
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Old 07-14-15, 03:59 PM
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Re: Attack on Iran nuclear facilities "imminent"?

Iran is going to do whatever it wants whether there is a deal or not. Making a deal with Iran will not make it easier nor harder for them to make the bomb.
The reason I supported a deal is this: without a deal Iran goes forward anyway in isolation, with a deal we actually get to send people to Iran to look around(spy) at what they're doing. Even if they hide stuff from inspectors, just having people there eyeballing what's going on is a plus.
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Old 07-14-15, 04:37 PM
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Re: Attack on Iran nuclear facilities "imminent"?

Originally Posted by General Zod View Post
Obama is playing his usual games of trying to make something sound like it isn't. Have you been reading the details of this agreement? Have you been reading what Iran said NO to and we said "oh ok". Like surprise inspections? That's out. Only timed inspections of places Iran chooses. So we're going to go somewhere Iran decides and see nothing nefarious going on and that's "verification". That's a bunch of crap. But.. that's what this deal is based on. Crap.

SO, you know, the American people believe the president that inspections are happening and that Iran is in check where meanwhile none of that is true but there's enough idiots to believe it. So I'm sure he'll pat himself on the back until the time comes when Iran does finally get a nuke and then he'll say "We didn't see this coming!" and everyone will believe that too.

I've read this claim to, but not from any source that is super reliable, such as the New York Times, the Washington Post, Reuters, or Associated Press.

I'm guessing that PolitiFact will prove or debunk this.

Given Obama's huge track record of lying, I don't trust anything that he says.

I have a crazy conspiracy, for which I have no proof, and for which I could be completely wrong: Obama's #1, long term, biggest goal as President, which supersedes anything else, is that he wants to help Iran get enough uranium to build enough nuclear bombs to destroy Israel.
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Old 07-14-15, 04:46 PM
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Re: Attack on Iran nuclear facilities "imminent"?

Originally Posted by grundle View Post
I have a crazy conspiracy, for which I have no proof, and for which I could be completely wrong: Obama's #1, long term, biggest goal as President, which supersedes anything else, is that he wants to help Iran get enough uranium to build enough nuclear bombs to destroy Israel.
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Old 07-14-15, 05:02 PM
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Re: Attack on Iran nuclear facilities "imminent"?

Originally Posted by grundle View Post
I have a crazy conspiracy, for which I have no proof, and for which I could be completely wrong: Obama's #1, long term, biggest goal as President, which supersedes anything else, is that he wants to help Iran get enough uranium to build enough nuclear bombs to destroy Israel.
Wow well I wouldn't go that far. I think he'd be very upset if Israel was destroyed. For like a good minute. And then he'd blame Republicans .. and then go golfing.
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Old 07-14-15, 05:21 PM
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Re: Attack on Iran nuclear facilities "imminent"?

Originally Posted by eXcentris View Post
Delay for as long as possible while doing what's in your 2nd sentence.

What do those against this deal propose?

- More sanctions? Yeah, that worked so well with North Korea...

And I'm just going to ignore the "bomb the shit out of them" crowd, including those in the 'I' country.
When you're a country who's goal is to destroy others off the face of the earth, and your ideology allows and justifies victory at any cost...you're automatically in a win-win situation with Western countries.

Don't make a deal because it's the only option. That's really stupid foreign policy. And it's particularly dangerous with countries like Iran.

Alternative solution?

Don't make any deals with Iran at all. Just inform them if the US/Israel learn of weapons creation, those locations will be destroyed. Period. No deals. No fucking around in Vienna, wasting taxpayer money. Just a flat-out fucking promise.

Iran played the US and European nations well. They're used to long-term negotiations (think in terms of years and even decades--to which the US is oblivious) and knew that Obama was in need of getting ANYTHING for his short-term politics.

Let's see how this plays out.

I'm sure Kerry, Obama, and everyone else involved, when something serious happens, will just say, "Well, we tried."
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Old 07-14-15, 07:46 PM
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Re: Attack on Iran nuclear facilities "imminent"?

We have peace in our time
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Old 07-14-15, 08:24 PM
  #236  
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Re: Attack on Iran nuclear facilities "imminent"?

For the sake of argument, let's say that I agree that Iran wants "to destroy others off the face of the earth", and that this not just political rhetoric/saber rattling. Then, did this deal magically make your ability to detect credible threats disappear? Did it also magically make response/military options to such threats disappear? Of course not. Heck, one would think that more monitoring, "eyes on the ground" would be beneficial, not counter-productive.

Personally, I'd rather rely on that than have some US dude show up at the UN with satellite pictures with red circles on it screaming "WMD's! attack! attack!".
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Old 07-14-15, 09:03 PM
  #237  
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Re: Attack on Iran nuclear facilities "imminent"?

Originally Posted by grundle View Post
I have a crazy conspiracy, for which I have no proof, and for which I could be completely wrong: Obama's #1, long term, biggest goal as President, which supersedes anything else, is that he wants to help Iran get enough uranium to build enough nuclear bombs to destroy Israel.


Are we getting trolled? Because I'd almost feel better if we are getting trolled.
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Old 07-14-15, 10:01 PM
  #238  
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Re: Attack on Iran nuclear facilities "imminent"?

Originally Posted by Ghostbuster View Post


Are we getting trolled? Because I'd almost feel better if we are getting trolled.

Here are 29 reasons why I would not be surprised if it turned out that Obama really did want Iran to use nuclear bombs to destroy Israel:

1) When Hillary Clinton was Secretary of State, Obama allowed Russians who had donated to her foundation to buy American uranium.

Charity Navigator, the United States’ most influential charity watchdog, said that legitimate charities spend at least 75% of their donations on their mission. However, according to Clinton’s foundation’s tax forms for the years 2009 through 2012, of the more than $500 million that was donated to the foundation, only 15%, or $75 million, was spent on programmatic grants. More than $25 million was used for travel expenses. Almost $110 million was spent on employee salaries and benefits. $290 million, almost 60 percent, was reported as “other expenses.” Because of this, Charity Navigator put Clinton’s foundation on its “watch list.”

If these Russians were truly interested in helping the causes of AIDS, famine, clean water, global warming, etc., there are plenty of other charities that they could have given to, which would have spent 75% of the money on these causes, instead of 15%.

2) The countries of Oman, Qatar, Kuwait, and Algeria all donated money to Clinton’s Foundation when Clinton was Secretary of State, at a time when these countries were attempting to conduct business with the U.S. government.

Article I, Section 9, Clause 8 of the U.S. Constitution states:

"No title of nobility shall be granted by the United States: and no person holding any office of profit or trust under them, shall, without the consent of the Congress, accept of any present, emolument, office, or title, of any kind whatever, from any king, prince, or foreign state."

In addition, the State Department had the following rules when Clinton was Secretary of State:

"Executive branch employees are subject to restrictions on the gifts that they may accept from sources outside the Government. Unless an exception applies, executive branch employees may not accept gifts that are given because of their official positions or that come from certain interested sources ('prohibited sources')."

"A prohibited source is a person (or an organization made up of such persons) who: is seeking official action by, is doing business or seeking to do business with, or is regulated by the employee’s agency, or has interests that may be substantially affected by performance or nonperformance of the employee’s official duties."

Donations that foreign governments had given to Clinton’s foundation were used to pay for first class flights for Clinton, even though she was not an employee of the foundation when those flights took place. This is a clear and obvious violation of the Constitution’s prohibition against federal officials accepting money or gifts from foreign governments.

3) In 2011, the Obama administration criticized Algeria’s government for imposing “restrictions on freedom of assembly and association,” tolerating “arbitrary killing,” “widespread corruption,” and a “lack of judicial independence.”

However, in 2012, after the Algerian government donated $500,000 to Secretary of State Hillary Clinton’s foundation, the Obama administration authorized the Algerian government to buy “toxicological agents, including chemical agents, biological agents and associated equipment” from the U.S.

4) Boko Haram is a Nigerian terrorist organization. Gilbert Chagoury is a Nigerian businessman and diplomat. After Chagoury donated between $1 million and $5 million to Secretary of State Hillary Clinton’s foundation, Clinton’s State Department avoided putting Boko Haram on its terrorist watch list. After Clinton resigned and John Kerry became the new Secretary of State more than two years later, Kerry put Boko Haram on the State Department’s terrorist watch list.

5) In 2013, a passenger who wanted to fly from New York to London on Kuwait Airways was illegally rejected by the airline for being an Israeli Jew. The passenger filed a discrimination complaint with the Obama administration. The Obama administration dismissed the complaint, claiming that the airline was subject to Kuwaiti law, and not U.S. law, even though the flight originated in the U.S.

6) In July 2014, the the Obama administration banned U.S. flights to Israel, based on the Obama administration’s false claim that Hamas rockets were being fired at the Israeli airport. Once this lie was exposed, the flight ban was lifted.

7) In February 2015, the Obama administration declassified and published a top secret document from 1987 which confirmed the existence of Israel’s nuclear weapons program. However, the Obama administration did not declassify or publish other parts of the document, which pertained to Italy, France, West Germany, and other NATO countries. Prior to this, Israel had never officially confirmed or denied that it had a nuclear weapons program, and the U.S. had remained silent on the matter as a gesture of good will toward Israel.

8) In May 2015, the D.C. Circuit Court of Appeals ruled that the IRS and the Justice Department had illegally discriminated against a U.S. charity because of its pro-Israel views.

9) After Nidal Malik Hasan shouted “Allahu Akbar!” and murdered 13 people on U.S. soil, instead of referring to it as “Islamic terrorism,” Obama said that it was “workplace violence.”

10) Mohamed Elibiary is a member of the Department of Homeland Security Advisory Council. In October 2013, a Twitter user asked him:

“show me just ONE example of an Islamic country where non Muslims are treated with equality.”

Elibiary responded by Tweeting:

“America and yes I do consider the United States of America an Islamic country with an Islamically compliant constitution. Move On!”

11) Although the Fort Hood shooter, the shoe bomber, and underwear bomber, and 100% of the 9-11 terrorists were all radical Muslims, the Obama administration enacted a ban on associating terrorism with radical Islam during training exercises of anti-terrrorism agents.

12) In January 2014, Commander-in-Chief Obama began allowing U.S. soldiers to wear Islamic beards, turbans, and hijabs as part of their military uniform.

13) In June 2014, Commander-in-Chief Obama banned Bibles but forced U.S. soldiers to adhere to Ramadan rules.

14) In September 2014, Obama said the Islamic State of Iraq and the Levant “is not Islamic.”

15) When Muhammad, the prophet of Islam, was 53 years old, he raped a girl who was either nine or ten years old at the time.

However, in September 2012, Obama said:

“The future must not belong to those who slander the prophet of Islam.”

16) In 2009, Obama said:

“My job is to communicate to the American people that the Muslim world is filled with extraordinary people who simply want to live their lives and see their children live better lives.”

However, there is nothing in the U.S. Constitution which says that that is part of the President’s job.

17) In January 2015, an Islamic terrorist named Ahmedy Coulibaly murdered four Jews at Hyper Cacher, a kosher supermarket in France.

The Jerusalem Post reported:

"Coulibaly called a French TV station from the kosher supermarket and said he was an al-Qaida terrorist and that he chose the kosher supermarket because he wanted to kill Jews."

However, Obama said the murders were “random.”

18) In July 2010, Charles Bolden, the administrator of NASA, said that Obama had told him that the primary purpose of NASA was “to reach out to the Muslim world.”

Although I can't prove that Obama actually said this, I can't think of any reason why Bolden would lie about it. Given Obama's behavior in so many other instances, I am inclined to think that Bolden was probably telling the truth.

19) In September 2012, the Obama administration phoned YouTube to complain about an anti-Muslim video.

Ben Wizner of the ACLU said that of this:

“It does make us nervous when the government throws its weight behind any requests for censorship.”

Eva Galperin of the Electronic Frontier Foundation, said of this:

“I am actually kind of distressed by this… Even though there are all these great quotes from inside the White House saying they support free speech….by calling YouTube from the White House, they were sending a message no matter how much they say we don’t want them to take it down, when the White House calls and asks you to review it, it sends a message and has a certain chilling effect.”

20) In June 2013, Rasmussen conducted a poll to find out what people considered to be the “nation’s top terror threat.” Reporting on the results of the poll, Rasmussen wrote:

“Among those who Strongly Approve of the president, more fear the Tea Party than radical Muslims.”

21) In May 2013, the Obama administration sued Star Transport, Inc., a trucking company based in Morton, Illinois, because it fired Muslim truck drivers who had refused to drive trucks that were carrying alcoholic beverages.

22) The Muslim Brotherhood is a terrorist organization. In April 2012, the Obama administration allowed members of the Muslim Brotherhood to skip TSA screening.

Meanwhile, the Obama administration gave a very invasive patdown to a three-year-old boy in a wheelchair, which caused the boy to tremble in fear. The Obama administration gave an aggressive patdown to a seven-year-old girl with cerebral palsy. The Obama administration said that a four-year-old girl was a “high security threat.” The Obama administration placed an 18-month-old girl on its no fly list. The Obama administration gave a patdown to Henry Kissinger. The Obama administration forced a 95-year-old cancer patient to remove her adult diaper and fly without it. The Obama administration ripped open the urostomy bag of a 61-year-old bladder cancer survivor, and forced him to fly covered in his own urine. The Obama administration harassed a sick 3-year-old boy, and caused him to miss his flight.

23) Sheikh Mohammad Rateb al-Nabulsi is a Muslim preacher from Syria who has called for homosexuals to be executed. In March 2014, Obama gave him a visa so he could spread his message to mosques in 17 U.S. cities.

24) In June 2009, Obama said:

“If you actually took the number of Muslim Americans, we’d be one of the largest Muslim countries in the world.”

However, at the time Obama made his statement, there were 57 countries that had more Muslims than the U.S.

25) In June 2009, Obama said there were

“nearly 7 million American Muslims in our country”

However, in June 2009, PolitiFact wrote:

"We are using numbers from the CIA Online World Factbook, a highly regarded government source for global statistics. It’s updated twice a month, and we’re relying on the latest version. By the World Factbook’s count, Muslims in the United States make up about 0.6 percent of the population. That’s around 1.8 million."

26) The Obama administration used taxpayers’ money to refurbish Muslim mosques in other countries.

27) Obama misquoted the Quran to give the false impression that it did not support murder.

28) In June 2011, Obama asked a Jewish singing group to remove its video from the internet.

29) In November 2014, after Palestinian terrorists murdered four Jews at a synagogue in Jerusalem, Obama said, “too many Palestinians have died.”

Last edited by grundle; 07-14-15 at 10:07 PM.
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Old 07-14-15, 10:20 PM
  #239  
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Re: Attack on Iran nuclear facilities "imminent"?

If Iran nukes Israel, they'll kill more Jews than Hitler did. Are you really, really saying Obama supports that?

Really?

Get some fucking help, man.
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Old 07-14-15, 10:21 PM
  #240  
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Re: Attack on Iran nuclear facilities "imminent"?

Originally Posted by BearFan View Post
We have peace in our time
I get that you're drawing an analogy to the Munich Agreement here; can you please clarify what constitutes the Sudetenland in this analogy?
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Old 07-14-15, 10:22 PM
  #241  
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Re: Attack on Iran nuclear facilities "imminent"?

Originally Posted by Sean O'Hara View Post
If Iran nukes Israel, they'll kill more Jews than Hitler did. Are you really, really saying Obama supports that?

Really?

Get some fucking help, man.
I love that General Zod has staked out the middle ground of "Obama isn't actively trying to get Israel nukes, but he'd be happy if it happened." Who said there's no more moderates?
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Old 07-14-15, 11:21 PM
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Re: Attack on Iran nuclear facilities "imminent"?

Originally Posted by Sean O'Hara View Post
If Iran nukes Israel, they'll kill more Jews than Hitler did. Are you really, really saying Obama supports that?

Really?

Get some fucking help, man.

I am saying that I would not be surprised if Obama supported it.

.

30) In 2010, Obama supported releasing Abdel Baset al-Megrahi from prison. Known as the "Lockerbie bomber," Megrahi had been convicted of murdering 270 people.

31) A terrorist bomber named Rasmieh Yousef Odeh was convicted of murdering two Hebrew University students by putting a bomb in a box of candy on a grocery store shelf in Israel. Afterward, the Obama administration hired her as an Obamacare “navigator.”

32) Federal law requires the President to notify Congress 30 days before releasing terrorists. However, in May 2014, Obama released five “high risk” Taliban terrorists without giving advance notification.

At 3:25 in this video from June 2014, Marie Harf, the deputy spokesperson for Obama’s State Department, refers to these Taliban terrorists as “gentlemen.” http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kWQ28sUBvwE

33) The Obama administration helped Hamas obtain the construction materials that it used to dig its terror tunnels, which it used to attack Israel.

Last edited by grundle; 07-15-15 at 12:00 AM.
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Old 07-15-15, 12:09 AM
  #243  
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Re: Attack on Iran nuclear facilities "imminent"?

This one thing, by itself, should have been enough to prevent Obama from being elected President:


34) In 1969, a guy named Bill Ayers co-founded a terrorist organization called Weather Underground.

In 1969, Ayers set off a bomb in Chicago at a statue that was dedicated to the city’s police. At the time of the explosion, no one was close enough to the statue to be killed. However, the explosion was so powerful that it broke almost 100 windows.

On March 6, 1970, three members of Weather Underground, including Diana Oughton (Ayers’s girlfriend) and Terry Robbins (Ayers’s close friend), were killed when they accidentally, prematurely set off a bomb which they were in the process of building, in their townhouse in the Greenwich Village neighborhood of Manhattan in New York City. The explosion was so powerful that it destroyed the entire four-story townhouse.

In 1970, Ayers bombed the headquarters of the New York City Police Department.

In 1971, Ayers bombed the United States Capitol building.

In 1972, Ayers bombed the Pentagon.

Although charges were filed against Ayers for these bombings, the charges were later dropped because law enforcement agents had conducted wiretaps and property searches without warrants.

In 1995, when Obama was running for state senator in Illinois, Obama held a fundraiser in the living room of Bill Ayers’s home.
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Old 07-15-15, 01:19 AM
  #244  
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Re: Attack on Iran nuclear facilities "imminent"?

Look, grundle, just because Donald Trump in the mainstream of the Republican party now, that doesn't mean you have to become even more extreme to compensate.
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Old 07-15-15, 07:00 AM
  #245  
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Re: Attack on Iran nuclear facilities "imminent"?

I believe Obama's support of Israel is pretty much on par with his belief that marriage should be between a man and a woman. He's certainly cognizant of what he needs to say to remain politically viable as the current situation allows.
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Old 07-15-15, 07:52 AM
  #246  
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Re: Attack on Iran nuclear facilities "imminent"?

Originally Posted by Ky-Fi View Post
I believe Obama's support of Israel is pretty much on par with his belief that marriage should be between a man and a woman. He's certainly cognizant of what he needs to say to remain politically viable as the current situation allows.


I wonder how Hillary will campaign on this issue? I can't believe that she will be in support of this deal.
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Old 07-15-15, 08:29 AM
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Re: Attack on Iran nuclear facilities "imminent"?

I think I saw where the Mullahs have given the honor of Ayatollah to Obama and are going to erect a statue of him in Tehran Square


But seriously....."This deal is not built on trust, it is built on verification” Obama said"........ok, how can you verify when there is no "Anytime, Any place" clause and Iran can say no to access at Military areas? And even if someone raises a concern, it's (14) days at which still no compromise. it then goes to another board for an extra (7) days and finally another (3) days...so Iran has 24 days to hide, dismantle, move and cover any wrong doing. This is from a country who had a secret nuclear site that the Obama Administration didn't even know about.
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Old 07-15-15, 10:38 AM
  #248  
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Re: Attack on Iran nuclear facilities "imminent"?

Originally Posted by classicman2 View Post


I wonder how Hillary will campaign on this issue? I can't believe that she will be in support of this deal.
Only thing i read from her yesterday is she said the deal was "worthy of consideration". That's a good position to be able to flip-flop depending on how the wind blows as it gets looked at closer.

Either way I don't thin the Dems would dare attack this deal too much regardless of how bad it is. They want to be seen as strong on foreign policy for the upcoming election and I think that will win out over doing the right thing and tossing this god awful "deal".
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Old 07-15-15, 10:40 AM
  #249  
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Re: Attack on Iran nuclear facilities "imminent"?

Originally Posted by grundle View Post
I have a crazy conspiracy, for which I have no proof, and for which I could be completely wrong: Obama's #1, long term, biggest goal as President, which supersedes anything else, is that he wants to help Iran get enough uranium to build enough nuclear bombs to destroy Israel.
<img src="http://media.giphy.com/media/13C9Ls0jJOKJLq/giphy.gif" WIDTH=500 HEIGHT=250>

Last edited by inri222; 07-15-15 at 11:21 AM.
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Old 07-15-15, 10:50 AM
  #250  
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Re: Attack on Iran nuclear facilities "imminent"?

Originally Posted by grundle View Post
I have a crazy conspiracy, for which I have no proof, and for which I could be completely wrong: Obama's #1, long term, biggest goal as President, which supersedes anything else, is that he wants to help Iran get enough uranium to build enough nuclear bombs to destroy Israel.
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