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Gun totin' mama lives by the sword, dies by the sword

Old 10-08-09, 04:56 PM
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Gun totin' mama lives by the sword, dies by the sword

Looks like she should have been packin' in her living room.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,...est=latestnews

Gun-Toting Soccer Mom, Husband Shot Dead in Apparent Murder-Suicide

LEBANON, Pa. A mother of three who gained national notoriety after she openly carried a loaded handgun to her daughter's soccer game was shot dead along with her husband in what appeared to be a murder-suicide.

Meleanie Hain, 31, and Scott Hain 33, were pronounced dead shortly after 8:30 p.m. Wednesday at their 1 1/2-story brick home in Lebanon, a small city about 80 miles west of Philadelphia.

The couple's three children home at the time but weren't hurt, police told the Patriot-News in Harrisburg. They were taken to stay with friends and relatives.

Some neighbors told the Lebanon Daily News they heard or saw the children a 10-year-old boy and girls aged 2 and 6 running from the house and screaming "Daddy shot Mommy!" shortly before the 911 emergency center was alerted at 6:20 p.m.

Debbie Mise, who lives nearby, said she heard a strange sound following by the screams of the children.

"I heard something heavy drop or fall, and then right away I heard the kids screaming, but I thought they were playing," Mise said. "It was loud. But it didn't sound like a pop."

Lebanon Police Chief Daniel Wright said Thursday that the case is classified as a "death investigation" involving two adult victims, but that no one outside the home nor any of the children is suspected of killing the couple. Detectives were still at the scene late Thursday morning, he said.

Wright said he did not plan to release any additional information about the case until after Lebanon County Coroner Dr. Jeffrey Yocum conducts autopsies on Friday.

Details about the shootings and what prompted the violence remained unclear Thursday morning.

Neighbor Mark Long said the Hains had been having marital problems for about a week. He said Scott Hain had left home on Tuesday, and Meleanie Hain didn't know where he was, but that he returned Wednesday.

Another neighbor, Brian Witmer, said he saw Scott Hain mowing his lawn around 3:30 p.m. Wednesday.

"There was nothing out of the ordinary," he said. "He didn't seem strange at all."

Scott Hain worked as a parole officer in neighboring Berks County, the News reported. He was formerly a guard at the Camp Hill state prison, according to the newspaper.

Meleanie Hain made headlines after she attended her then 5-year-old daughter's soccer game in a park on Sept. 11, 2008, with her 9mm Glock pistol in plain view holstered on her hip, upsetting other parents.

The county sheriff, Michael DeLeo, revoked her gun-carrying permit nine days later.

Hain successfully appealed the permit revocation, although the judge who restored the permit questioned her judgment and said she had "scared the devil" out of other people at the game.

Hain sued DeLeo in federal court, alleging that he violated her constitutional rights and prosecuted her maliciously when he took the permit away. She said that because of his actions her baby-sitting service had suffered, her children had been harassed and she had been ostracized by her neighbors in Lebanon, which has about 25,000 residents.

DeLeo said at Hain's appeal that he revoked her permit after fielding the parents' complaints. He said he based his decision on a state law that prohibits certain gun permits from being given to anyone whose character and reputation make him or her a danger to public safety.

After Hain sued DeLeo, the Brady Center to Prevent Gun Violence, which says it tries to reform the gun industry through sensible regulations, offered to defend him for free.

"It is a case that calls out for common sense," Brady Center attorney Daniel Vice said then. "It's ridiculous to bring a gun to a child's soccer game."

A court hearing on Hain's $1 million lawsuit was postponed in May after an attorney in the case was involved in a traffic accident.


http://www.pennlive.com/midstate/ind...at_prospe.html

(Just in case the glee didn't come through-- Haha! Dead gun nut!)
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Old 10-08-09, 05:23 PM
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Re: Gun totin' mama lives by the sword, dies by the sword

What kind of fucking idiot takes an exposed gun in a holster to a kids soccer game.



Good riddance.
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Old 10-08-09, 05:36 PM
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Re: Gun totin' mama lives by the sword, dies by the sword

Well you might be surprised how many people open carry in the states that allow it. A soccer game is awfully inappropriate though, I'm a gun owner and I would have complained about that as well. The article is also unclear about who was the shooter.

I'm not sure I can find too much glee for the death of a child's parents, regardless of the mother's personal behavior in public.
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Old 10-08-09, 06:56 PM
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Re: Gun totin' mama lives by the sword, dies by the sword

So sad for all involved.

While I defend an individual's right to open carry "where legal, heh", I certainly agree there are many levels of propriety and personally prefer to concealed carry at all times. Even up here there are a number of people who find firearms provocative and get a little twitchy when they see a gun on a hip, and I believe it's just smarter to keep a low profile.
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Old 10-08-09, 07:12 PM
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Re: Gun totin' mama lives by the sword, dies by the sword

Originally Posted by Birrman54 View Post
Well you might be surprised how many people open carry in the states that allow it. A soccer game is awfully inappropriate though, I'm a gun owner and I would have complained about that as well. The article is also unclear about who was the shooter.
The father/husband.

I'm not sure I can find too much glee for the death of a child's parents, regardless of the mother's personal behavior in public.
Agreed. I think her behavior carrying her gun around to kids soccer games, on shopping trips, etc. was irresponsible and dangerous, but I don't think that's a reason to celebrate her murder.
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Old 10-08-09, 10:31 PM
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Re: Gun totin' mama lives by the sword, dies by the sword

Sorry for missing the original debate on Ms. Hain, but how is legal open carry of a firearm irresponsible or dangerous at a kid's soccer game?

I will acquiesce on "inappropriate", but I don't find that argument too terribly convincing either. The most inappropriate thing about it was the fact that any intelligent human being had to know it was going to cause an uproar and you might be exposing the children to that.
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Old 10-09-09, 12:41 AM
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Re: Gun totin' mama lives by the sword, dies by the sword

Originally Posted by jfoobar View Post
Sorry for missing the original debate on Ms. Hain, but how is legal open carry of a firearm irresponsible or dangerous at a kid's soccer game?

I will acquiesce on "inappropriate", but I don't find that argument too terribly convincing either. The most inappropriate thing about it was the fact that any intelligent human being had to know it was going to cause an uproar and you might be exposing the children to that.
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Old 10-09-09, 01:35 AM
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Re: Gun totin' mama lives by the sword, dies by the sword

The very nature of a gun being secured outside the hip is what cops do. Why would this woman openly wearing a gun be any less safe than a police woman openly wearing a gun?
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Old 10-09-09, 01:38 AM
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Re: Gun totin' mama lives by the sword, dies by the sword

Freedom to bare arms takes another one. God bless America!
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Old 10-09-09, 02:12 AM
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Re: Gun totin' mama lives by the sword, dies by the sword

Originally Posted by Save Ferris View Post
The very nature of a gun being secured outside the hip is what cops do. Why would this woman openly wearing a gun be any less safe than a police woman openly wearing a gun?
Police are specially trained, specifically dedicated to public safety and keeping the peace, and subject to supervision through their chain of command. None of these are true of the typical citizen who might be carrying a firearm.
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Old 10-09-09, 05:35 AM
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Re: Gun totin' mama lives by the sword, dies by the sword

Originally Posted by JumpCutz View Post
What kind of fucking idiot takes an exposed gun in a holster to a kids soccer game.



Good riddance.
Probably the same ones that think it is ok to bring guns where the president is speaking.
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Old 10-09-09, 07:21 AM
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Re: Gun totin' mama lives by the sword, dies by the sword

Originally Posted by JasonF View Post
Police are specially trained, specifically dedicated to public safety and keeping the peace, and subject to supervision through their chain of command. None of these are true of the typical citizen who might be carrying a firearm.
Couple of responses:

1. Armed security guards. They are all over the place and I assure you that they do not generally receive anything approaching the extensive firearms training inherent to most police academies.

His point about police officers (and likewise my mention of security guards) really only speaks to "appropriateness." Children are exposed to people openly carrying handguns in public quite frequently.

2. The better question is this. How is it really more "dangerous" and "irresponsible" for her to wear the pistol in an open holster to the event than just to wear it concealed?

Or do people here consider it equally "dangerous" and "inappropriate" to legally wear a concealed handgun to a children's sporting event?
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Old 10-09-09, 08:10 AM
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Re: Gun totin' mama lives by the sword, dies by the sword

Actually, I looked up PA's laws and security guards there do have to receive training and certification before they can legally carry.

I have a concealed carry permit and occasionally make use of it. I would NEVER take a gun to a child's sporting event, though. If it was on school grounds, that wouldn't even be legal here. I fully believe in an individual's right to own and carry a gun. I also believe in a duty to exercise care and common sense when doing so. That said, the situation in the story is unfortunate and seemingly completely unrelated to the woman's idiocy at her child's soccer game.
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Old 10-09-09, 10:24 AM
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Re: Gun totin' mama lives by the sword, dies by the sword

Citizens can receive training on gun handling and safety. Do we know this woman was not trained? Also, from what I've heard from policemen, the training they have is very very very basic. As in, they shoot a few rounds at a target to qualify once a year. Anyway I just disagree that for simply being present, a gun made the soccer game 'less safe'.

Last edited by Save Ferris; 10-09-09 at 10:30 AM.
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Old 10-09-09, 10:27 AM
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Re: Gun totin' mama lives by the sword, dies by the sword

Originally Posted by maxfisher View Post
Actually, I looked up PA's laws and security guards there do have to receive training and certification before they can legally carry.
Of course they do. However, unless Pennsylvania differs substantially from most other states, the firearms training they must complete before they can be armed is only a fraction of that which police officers receive.

I have a concealed carry permit and occasionally make use of it. I would NEVER take a gun to a child's sporting event
But why not?
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Old 10-09-09, 11:31 AM
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Re: Gun totin' mama lives by the sword, dies by the sword

Paging Dr. Mabuse...
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Old 10-09-09, 11:54 AM
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Re: Gun totin' mama lives by the sword, dies by the sword

So sad for the 3 kids. That kind of thing can seriously mess you up for life.
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Old 10-09-09, 12:13 PM
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Re: Gun totin' mama lives by the sword, dies by the sword

Ah! My hometown and the town I still live in makes national news, twice in the last 6 months. (We bitched at our Senator Specter at the town hall meetings as well) I think somebody from the county took them out because of that 1 million dollar lawsuit.

I'm really ashamed that these two idiots are from my town.
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Old 10-09-09, 01:29 PM
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Re: Gun totin' mama lives by the sword, dies by the sword

Obviously this woman deserved to die for exercising a perfectly legal right. Let's just all agree on that point and get back to trying to exonerate Roman Polanski. It's a shame he didn't get the Nobel for how he brought the international art community together.
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Old 10-09-09, 02:09 PM
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Re: Gun totin' mama lives by the sword, dies by the sword

Originally Posted by jfoobar View Post
But why not?
Because when I have kids, I won't want a bunch of random people wearing guns to their elementary school sporting events. I assume other parents feel the same way and think it's appropriate to respect their wishes. I suppose my opinion might change if violent crime becomes a problem at 5-year-olds' soccer games.
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Old 10-09-09, 02:39 PM
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Re: Gun totin' mama lives by the sword, dies by the sword

This situation isn't so remarkable.

I don't own guns, don't hang around people that own guns. I feel perfectly safe.

I see nothing wrong with owning guns lawfully. I suppose if you're hanging around people with guns and you strap on a gun regularly, traveling in those circles, you have a better chance of getting shot or killed by a firearm.

-Captain O
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Old 10-09-09, 03:12 PM
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Re: Gun totin' mama lives by the sword, dies by the sword

Originally Posted by maxfisher View Post
Because when I have kids, I won't want a bunch of random people wearing guns to their elementary school sporting events. I assume other parents feel the same way and think it's appropriate to respect their wishes.
But ... why?
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Old 10-09-09, 03:18 PM
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Re: Gun totin' mama lives by the sword, dies by the sword

Originally Posted by CaptainMarvel View Post
Obviously this woman deserved to die for exercising a perfectly legal right. Let's just all agree on that point and get back to trying to exonerate Roman Polanski. It's a shame he didn't get the Nobel for how he brought the international art community together.


My sarcasm meter was freaking out... this explains it.
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Old 10-09-09, 03:40 PM
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Re: Gun totin' mama lives by the sword, dies by the sword

Just think if she hadn't owned a gun. Her husband would've killed her years ago. It's good to know the gun kept her safe for as long as it did.
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Old 10-09-09, 04:22 PM
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Re: Gun totin' mama lives by the sword, dies by the sword

Originally Posted by maxfisher View Post
Because when I have kids, I won't want a bunch of random people wearing guns to their elementary school sporting events.
I really don't see the 'need' either to be so obviously carrying a weapon to a children's soccer game. And, yes with a CCW it's your 'right' to carry it wherever, that does not make it the smartest decision.
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