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Religion, Politics and World Events They make great dinner conversation, don't you think? plus Political Film

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Old 02-23-09, 02:38 PM   #76
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Re: Afghanistan: The War Continues Under Obama -- but the debate is still about Iraq.

Oh easily boggled mind, why would you say that?
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Old 02-23-09, 02:59 PM   #77
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Re: Afghanistan: The War Continues Under Obama -- but the debate is still about Iraq.

Because the conflict between India and Pakistan is largely driven by religion and having religious hardliners controlling Pakistan would, I think, inflame tensions.
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Old 02-23-09, 03:27 PM   #78
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Re: Afghanistan: The War Continues Under Obama -- but the debate is still about Iraq.

Does anyone here actually have any insight into how Obama plans to get out of this or proceed with it and what he plans on leaving behind?
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Old 02-23-09, 03:33 PM   #79
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Re: Afghanistan: The War Continues Under Obama -- but the debate is still about Iraq.

I googled for Obama's plans for Afghanistan and the only thing that comes up, of course, is Iraq.

Here is the official plan as best I can tell:
http://www.barackobama.com/issues/iraq/

Quote:
Strains on the Military: More than 1.75 million servicemen and women have served in Iraq or Afghanistan; more than 620,000 troops have completed multiple deployments. Military members have endured multiple deployments taxing both them and their families. Additionally, military equipment is wearing out at nine times the normal rate after years of constant use in Iraq’s harsh environment. As Army Chief of Staff General George Casey said in March, “Today’s Army is out of balance. The current demand for our forces in Iraq and Afghanistan exceeds the sustainable supply and limits our ability to provide ready forces for other contingencies.”

Resurgent Al Qaeda in Afghanistan: The decision to invade Iraq diverted resources from the war in Afghanistan, making it harder for us to kill or capture Osama Bin Laden and others involved in the 9/11 attacks. Nearly seven years later, the Taliban has reemerged in southern Afghanistan while Al Qaeda has used the space provided by the Iraq war to regroup, train and plan for another attack on the United States. 2007 was the most violent year in Afghanistan since the invasion in 2001. The scale of our deployments in Iraq continues to set back our ability to finish the fight in Afghanistan, producing unacceptable strategic risks.
Finish it means... what?
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Old 02-23-09, 03:38 PM   #80
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Re: Afghanistan: The War Continues Under Obama -- but the debate is still about Iraq.

everything depends on making allies of the tribal leaders
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Old 02-23-09, 04:47 PM   #81
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Re: Afghanistan: The War Continues Under Obama -- but the debate is still about Iraq.

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everything depends on making allies of the tribal leaders
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Old 02-23-09, 04:55 PM   #82
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Re: Afghanistan: The War Continues Under Obama -- but the debate is still about Iraq.

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Originally Posted by Thor Simpson View Post
Does anyone here actually have any insight into how Obama plans to get out of this or proceed with it and what he plans on leaving behind?
They're going to try some sort of troop surge light and diplomacy. Frankly, success is an Afghanistan that does not become a terrorist beehive again.
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Old 02-23-09, 05:00 PM   #83
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Re: Afghanistan: The War Continues Under Obama -- but the debate is still about Iraq.

There will most likely be nuclear detonations involved before all that stuff is settled.

All of this 'play nice' in war, 'limited' war, 'don't kill then too meanly' war, is going to lead to a much more serious war down the line.

It's almost as if the world has forgotten that small groups of motivated men can wind up destroying large parts of the globe.

It'll be a 'backed into a corner' situation and go nuclear most likely, not too far down the road.

It won't be resolved within Obama's term even if he's re-elected.
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Old 02-23-09, 06:25 PM   #84
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Re: Afghanistan: The War Continues Under Obama -- but the debate is still about Iraq.

You think we will have combat troops in Afghanistan in 4 years? I think that would be a huge liability for this administration. I think they will find a way out.
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Old 02-23-09, 06:41 PM   #85
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Re: Afghanistan: The War Continues Under Obama -- but the debate is still about Iraq.

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Originally Posted by Thor Simpson View Post
You think we will have combat troops in Afghanistan in 4 years? I think that would be a huge liability for this administration. I think they will find a way out.
I think we'll have troops in Iraq and Afghanistan in 4 years.
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Old 02-23-09, 07:22 PM   #86
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Re: Afghanistan: The War Continues Under Obama -- but the debate is still about Iraq.

Combat troops?
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Old 02-23-09, 09:34 PM   #87
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Re: Afghanistan: The War Continues Under Obama -- but the debate is still about Iraq.

It depends on how you define a 'combat troop.'
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Old 02-24-09, 12:21 AM   #88
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Re: Afghanistan: The War Continues Under Obama -- but the debate is still about Iraq.

Soldiers on mission to actively engage the enemy, even in a supporting capacity.

Not soldiers sitting at checkpoints who might respond to an attack. Not soldiers at training camps. Not soldiers at an embassy. Not soldiers protecting an airfield or other high profile target. No combat troops would mean no more hanging out in the mountains waiting to engage as well.
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Old 02-25-09, 07:28 PM   #89
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Re: Afghanistan: The War Continues Under Obama -- but the debate is still about Iraq.

Supposedly the withdrawal plans for Iraq (19 month timeline or something) are imminent from Obama's lips. Hopefully he will offer some understanding on the objectives in Afghanistan at the same time.
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Old 02-25-09, 08:41 PM   #90
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Re: Afghanistan: The War Continues Under Obama -- but the debate is still about Iraq.

How long do you believe it will take to withdraw 100,000 troops with their equipment from Iraq?

Or does this administration plan on leaving a bunch of the equipment behind. Why not? We have no equipment shortage.
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Old 02-25-09, 09:16 PM   #91
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Re: Afghanistan: The War Continues Under Obama -- but the debate is still about Iraq.

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Originally Posted by classicman2 View Post
How long do you believe it will take to withdraw 100,000 troops with their equipment from Iraq?

Or does this administration plan on leaving a bunch of the equipment behind. Why not? We have no equipment shortage.
did the units that rotate through iraq bring their own equipment? for all we know there was a set there that everyone used and gave to the next unit coming in

smart thing would be to give it to the iraqis and then sell them the support and buy all new stuff for us
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Old 02-27-09, 07:35 PM   #92
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Re: Afghanistan: The War Continues Under Obama -- but the debate is still about Iraq.

It's good to know things are proceeding "trilaterally." Encouraging.

I still haven't heard any sort of overall objective or exit strategy. Clearly we are there to help stabilize and fight terror. But clearly we can also not sustain this indefinitely. So what is the goal? Or do we "stay the course" without such objectives?

Quote:
Clinton promises team effort on Afghanistan, Pakistan

WASHINGTON (CNN) -- Secretary of State Hillary Clinton pledged Thursday to work closely with Afghanistan and Pakistan as a team to root out extremism within their borders.

Clinton met this week with Pakistani Foreign Minister Makhdoom Shah Mehmood Qureshi and Afghan Foreign Minister Rangin D. Spanta, who were in Washington leading delegations for a strategic review of U.S. policy to stabilize Afghanistan and neighboring Pakistan.

Clinton hailed the three days of talks as "in-depth, very specific, open, forthright and, I believe, extremely useful."

"If we had met with our Pakistani friends, if we had met with our friends from Afghanistan, that would have been important. But what makes these last three days especially meaningful is that they were trilateral," she said. "We have all been working together."

Clinton said the three ministers agreed to meet again in the coming months as part of a regular trilateral dialogue.

In addition to holding separate meetings with the United States, the Afghan and Pakistani teams met together with a U.S. review team on several occasions, a departure from the past several years of animosity between the two countries. The effort is being led by South Asian security expert Bruce Reidel and Ambassador Richard Holbrooke, U.S. special envoy.

President Obama and Clinton tapped Holbrooke as special representative for the two countries, a signal of how the new administration considers Afghanistan and Pakistan intertwined in any solution to the war in Afghanistan and the terrorist threat along their shared border.

Last week, Obama announced he is sending another 17,000 troops to Afghanistan to fight a strengthening insurgency, which Obama has called the "central front in our enduring struggle against terrorism and extremism."

The troops will be sent to southern Afghanistan, which borders Pakistan and is a haven for Taliban insurgents. Pakistani officials have expressed concern the deployment will push the Taliban across the border into Pakistan and further destabilize their country.

The country's defense minister said on Thursday his country is fighting for survival against the Taliban, but expressed optimism the tide is turning in the government's favor.

"Achieving our goals in the coming years will not be quick or easy," Gen. Abdul Rahim Wardak said at a press conference in Washington. Despite the additional troops from the United States and NATO, Wardak said the outcome will depend on the Afghan army.

The Obama administration is conducting several reviews of U.S. policy in Afghanistan, including a review by Gen. David Petraeus, the commander in the region who also took part in some of the talks this week. Defense Secretary Robert Gates has said the original mission in Afghanistan was "too broad" and needs to be more "realistic and focused" for the United States to succeed.

Afghanistan's Spanta called Obama's decision to review U.S.-Afghanistan policy "a clear sign of his determination to see Afghanistan's success as we move forward in consolidating our past achievements and tackling challenges at this time."

Pakistan's Qureshi earlier this week cited a "convergence of interests" between Washington and Islamabad and a "willingness to work together."

"I see a lot of hope in the new administration, the new leadership, and Pakistan is willing to work with the American administration to fight extremism and terrorism," he said. "We are determined to defeat terrorism in all its forms and manifestations."

Pakistan is engaged in its own effort against Taliban militants in its Northwest Frontier Province. The militants, who effectively control the country's Swat Valley, extended a cease-fire Tuesday as part of an agreement with the government that the United States and NATO warn will risk granting a safe haven to extremists near the Afghan border.

The central government has long exerted little control in the area, but it launched an intense military offensive in late July to flush out militants.

As retaliation for the military presence, the Taliban carried out a series of deadly bombings, beheadings and kidnappings and said the attacks will continue until the troops pull out.

On Tuesday, the Taliban said it is indefinitely extending a cease-fire Taliban leaders declared eight days ago after signing a controversial deal with the government to impose Islamic law, or Sharia, in the region.
http://www.cnn.com/2009/POLITICS/02/...ref=newssearch

I really wish the following respondents were also asked what they thought the objectives in Afghanistan are. Also, is Afghanistan really still a "popular" war? Yay Afghanistan War?
Quote:
Poll: Most support plan to bolster U.S. troops in Afghanistan

A new national poll indicates that a majority of Americans support President Barack Obama's plan to send 17,000 more U.S. troops to the war in Afghanistan.

And the survey, conducted by CNN and the Opinion Research Corp., suggests that half of all Americans think the United States is winning the war in Iraq, the highest percentage since that question was first asked in a CNN poll in 2004.

...

Sixty-three percent of those questioned in the poll say they support Obama's plan to beef up U.S. troops in Afghanistan, with 36 percent opposing the move.

But only 47 percent favor the war in Afghanistan, with 51 percent opposed to the fighting that first began soon after the terrorist attacks of September 11, 2001.

"Obama's plan for more troops wins twice as much support as the surge in troop levels in Iraq won when George W. Bush first unveiled that plan in 2007," CNN Polling Director Keating Holland said. "The Afghanistan plan is more popular than the Iraq surge because the war in Afghanistan is more popular."

Sixty-two percent say the U.S. can eventually win the war in Afghanistan. That's twice as much as the 31 percent who feel America is currently winning the war.

"Democrats oppose the war in Afghanistan by nearly 2 to 1. They're asking, 'What's our strategy there? We don't want another Iraq,' " said CNN Senior Political Analyst Bill Schneider.

"Democrats are apprehensive about Afghanistan, but they're willing to give their president the benefit of the doubt," Schneider said.

...
http://www.cnn.com/2009/POLITICS/02/...ref=newssearch
Did anyone know there were beheadings going on in Afghanistan? I didn't.

I'm not going to ask for any sort of time table. But I seem to remember some benchmarks being put in place for Iraq that we could at least use as a yardstick for "success" or progress. And I recall repeated calls for a definition of our goals and an exit strategy. Or is that only something that we should come up with in less "popular" wars?
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Last edited by Th0r S1mpson; 02-27-09 at 07:40 PM.
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Old 02-27-09, 08:23 PM   #93
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Re: Afghanistan: The War Continues Under Obama -- but the debate is still about Iraq.

Well, it does seem Obama will relieve my frustration in the near future. I look forward to the objectives he speaks about:

Quote:
...
The White House has yet to release their comprehensive strategic review of Afghanistan, and President Obama said that his decision does not “pre-determine the outcome” of that full review.

“Instead, it will further enable our team to put together a comprehensive strategy that will employ all elements of our national power to fulfill achievable goals in Afghanistan,” Obama said. “As we develop our new strategic goals, we will do so in concert with our friends and allies as together we seek the resources necessary to succeed.”
...
http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalpu...authorize.html
Obama presently plans to leave 50,000 troops in Iraq once that war is "officially over" in August of Next Year (Will there be a Mission Accomplished banner?).

How many troops are presently in Afghanistan, or will be after his recent increase?
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Old 03-10-09, 08:52 AM   #94
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Re: Afghanistan: The War Continues Under Obama -- but the debate is still about Iraq.

BRUSSELS – U.S. Vice President Joe Biden urged NATO members to jointly confront al-Qaida and other extremist groups in Afghanistan where he said instability threatens all of the alliance's members equally.

Appearing before NATO's top decision making body, Biden solicited ideas to reverse a losing military strategy in Afghanistan as part of President Barack Obama's policy to bring more European allies on board to fight the Taliban-led insurgency.
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I'm quite certain that our European allies will step up to the plate at the urging of VP Joe Biden.
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Old 03-16-09, 08:47 AM   #95
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Re: Afghanistan: The War Continues Under Obama -- but the debate is still about Iraq.

PESHAWAR, Pakistan – Up to 50 militants attacked a terminal for trucks carrying supplies to U.S. and NATO troops in Afghanistan early Monday, in the second such assault in northwest Pakistan in two days.

Rising Taliban attacks have raised doubts about the reliability of critical supply routes through Pakistan, prompting the U.S. and NATO to seek alternatives.
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Old 03-26-09, 08:22 PM   #96
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Re: Afghanistan: The War Continues Under Obama -- but the debate is still about Iraq.

Concerned about the faltering war in Afghanistan, President Barack Obama plans to dispatch thousands more military and civilian trainers on top of the 17,000 fresh combat troops he's already ordered, people familiar with the forthcoming plan said Thursday.
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Old 03-26-09, 08:30 PM   #97
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Re: Afghanistan: The War Continues Under Obama -- but the debate is still about Iraq.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr Mabuse View Post
There will most likely be nuclear detonations involved before all that stuff is settled.

All of this 'play nice' in war, 'limited' war, 'don't kill them too meanly' war, is going to lead to a much more serious war down the line.

It's almost as if the world has forgotten that small groups of motivated men can wind up destroying large parts of the globe.

It'll be a 'backed into a corner' situation and go nuclear most likely, not too far down the road.

It won't be resolved within Obama's term even if he's re-elected.
Good post. Short, but rather accurate. Eventually, somebody bad is going to get their hands on a nuke. Just a matter of time and who's watch it happens on. Bush got lucky. Maybe Obama will, too.
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Old 03-27-09, 09:17 AM   #98
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Re: Afghanistan: The War Continues Under Obama -- but the debate is still about Iraq.

The Obama administration admits to having no exit strategy for Afghanistan.

It has now become Obama's War.



http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090327/..._afghanistan_6

Last edited by classicman2; 03-27-09 at 10:49 AM.
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Old 03-27-09, 06:31 PM   #99
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Re: Afghanistan: The War Continues Under Obama -- but the debate is still about Iraq.

Obama's solution to the problem in Afghanistan: 'Send a bunch of lawyers................'

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Old 03-27-09, 09:17 PM   #100
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Re: Afghanistan: The War Continues Under Obama -- but the debate is still about Iraq.

^^^ come off it.
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