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Clinton question?

Old 06-28-08, 12:43 AM
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Clinton question?

Sorry if this was discussed or is a FAQ.. I am not very hardcore in the political arena..

So Hillary lent her campaign XX millions. Essentially, she wants to be president and uses her own money to get there.

Now, that doesnt work out; so now she's asking (often poor) people to pay her back the money she spent out of her own pocket for her personal goal in life?

Why does that seem very wrong to me?
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Old 06-28-08, 12:49 AM
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Only you can determine why it seems wrong to you.

However, her campaign has approximately $20 million in debt. Roughly half of that she borrowed from herself. She is not asking for help repaying that. Essentially, she is forgiving the loan she made to her own campaign.

She is asking for assistance in repaying the other campaign debts. the people to whome she owes money range from small vendors (e.g. the bakery in small town New Hampshire who provided the continental breakfast for a meet-and-greet she did) to her consultant, Mark Penn.
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Old 06-28-08, 01:24 AM
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I say anyone who didn't demand cash up front after Texas was assuming the risk.
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Old 06-28-08, 07:07 AM
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poor people

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Old 06-28-08, 09:02 AM
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Originally Posted by JasonF
Only you can determine why it seems wrong to you.

However, her campaign has approximately $20 million in debt. Roughly half of that she borrowed from herself. She is not asking for help repaying that. Essentially, she is forgiving the loan she made to her own campaign.

She is asking for assistance in repaying the other campaign debts. the people to whome she owes money range from small vendors (e.g. the bakery in small town New Hampshire who provided the continental breakfast for a meet-and-greet she did) to her consultant, Mark Penn.
I can see how people would want to pitch in to pay off the small vendors, cause they can't afford to take the hit, but I don't think many people care if guys like Mark Penn get theirs.

Maybe they should set up a debt registry. List all the people she owes money, and how much she owes. This should all be public record anyhow. Then donors can pick where they want their money to go. It would be interesting to see how the debt was paid off.
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Old 06-28-08, 09:09 AM
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It's like this is the first time a political campaign incurred debt or something.
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Old 06-28-08, 10:16 AM
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Originally Posted by Jason
I can see how people would want to pitch in to pay off the small vendors, cause they can't afford to take the hit, but I don't think many people care if guys like Mark Penn get theirs.

Maybe they should set up a debt registry. List all the people she owes money, and how much she owes. This should all be public record anyhow. Then donors can pick where they want their money to go. It would be interesting to see how the debt was paid off.
Yeah, a lot of Obama supporters are saying "I don't mind paying off the debt owed to small-town vendors, but I really don't want to pay for the March-May Kitchen Sink Strategy."

Unfortunately, she hasn't set up any way for donors to designate what the funds are used for. I think if guys like Penn, Wolfson, and McAuliffe announced they were forgiving any debts owed them by the Clinton campaign, it would go a long way toward persuading Obama voters to donate.
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Old 06-28-08, 10:33 AM
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Originally Posted by ravan
Sorry if this was discussed or is a FAQ.. I am not very hardcore in the political arena..

So Hillary lent her campaign XX millions. Essentially, she wants to be president and uses her own money to get there.

Now, that doesnt work out; so now she's asking (often poor) people to pay her back the money she spent out of her own pocket for her personal goal in life?

Why does that seem very wrong to me?
Because you are not a politician. Maria Cantwell (D-WA) ran a very expensive campaign way back and won. She used her own money that had gone up HUGE because of her .com stocks. Then the crash came, and Hillary ran a fundraising party to get Maria (and maybe others) out of debt.

Politicians must raise money as part of their life. They have no qualms about the when or why, only that they need to when they need money. And they have enough influence because of their jobs that people will gladly do it.
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Old 06-28-08, 10:43 AM
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Originally Posted by ravan
Why does that seem very wrong to me?
because you have common sense...

it is wrong...

she and Bill could pay the whole thing off easily... hell a year's pay would cover it...

her ambitious and naked lust for power lead her to stay in longer than she should have, even longer than her own party wanted her too... so she rang up all these bills that weren't necessary chasing her own ambition... and now wants someone else to pay for it...
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Old 06-28-08, 10:49 AM
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Originally Posted by Dr Mabuse
because you have common sense...

it is wrong...

she and Bill could pay the whole thing off easily... hell a year's pay would cover it...

her ambitious and naked lust for power lead her to stay in longer than she should have, even longer than her own party wanted her too... so she rang up all these bills that weren't necessary chasing her own ambition... and now wants someone else to pay for it...
I wonder how much money the people over at hillaryis44.com are coughing up?
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Old 06-28-08, 10:59 AM
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Originally Posted by JasonF
Only you can determine why it seems wrong to you.

However, her campaign has approximately $20 million in debt. Roughly half of that she borrowed from herself. She is not asking for help repaying that. Essentially, she is forgiving the loan she made to her own campaign.

She is asking for assistance in repaying the other campaign debts. the people to whome she owes money range from small vendors (e.g. the bakery in small town New Hampshire who provided the continental breakfast for a meet-and-greet she did) to her consultant, Mark Penn.
She's forgiving the money she loaned to her campaign because she only had until August to recover that (beyond something like $200,000.) She could, with donors approval, shift moneys donated for the general election over to her senate campaign finances and then back to pay off her primary debt.
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Old 06-28-08, 02:14 PM
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Corzine was one of her big supporters, maybe he can write her a big check. Oh wait, he already jumped ship to Obama.

He spent about 60 million of his own money to become senator, and then a few years later he spent like 43 million of his own money to be governor. The way he is screwin' up the state he may need to spend more in '09 if he wants to get reelected.
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Old 06-28-08, 05:35 PM
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It's most assuredly not wrong.

I believe it's naive to think it's wrong.
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Old 06-28-08, 05:48 PM
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Originally Posted by classicman2
It's most assuredly not wrong.

I believe it's naive to think it's wrong.
Why isn't it wrong? Do you think that it is acceptable to spend money that you don't have and have no idea where you'll get it from it at all? You think that it is okay to receive goods and services from companies and leave them hanging for payment?
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Old 06-28-08, 07:30 PM
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Originally Posted by sracer
Why isn't it wrong? Do you think that it is acceptable to spend money that you don't have and have no idea where you'll get it from it at all? You think that it is okay to receive goods and services from companies and leave them hanging for payment?
Isn't this what our entire economy is based on?
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Old 06-28-08, 08:02 PM
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Originally Posted by Jason
Isn't this what our entire economy is based on?


nice...
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Old 06-28-08, 08:09 PM
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Originally Posted by Dr Mabuse
because you have common sense...

it is wrong...

she and Bill could pay the whole thing off easily... hell a year's pay would cover it...

her ambitious and naked lust for power lead her to stay in longer than she should have, even longer than her own party wanted her too... so she rang up all these bills that weren't necessary chasing her own ambition... and now wants someone else to pay for it...

Is she legally allowed to pay it?
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Old 06-28-08, 09:34 PM
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Originally Posted by classicman2
It's most assuredly not wrong.

I believe it's naive to think it's wrong.
It's not wrong if she's not in a position to pay it back herself. We both know full well that the Clintons can scrape up that amount of money in a year or so of speech making. They just don't want to - and that is indeed wrong.
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Old 06-29-08, 06:27 AM
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Whether she's in a postion to pay it back herself or not is immaterial.
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Old 06-29-08, 07:02 AM
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Can I ask why someone would want to donate money to a politician who has already lost? I have no problem with someone doing it, but I just don't see why one would want to.
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Old 06-30-08, 12:14 AM
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Originally Posted by JasonF
She is asking for assistance in repaying the other campaign debts. the people to whome she owes money range from small vendors (e.g. the bakery in small town New Hampshire who provided the continental breakfast for a meet-and-greet she did) to her consultant, Mark Penn.
Okay, see I have an even bigger problem here.. She agreed to buy services from people, and then spent the money on tv-ads or other things.. Or bought services from the little bakery and knew she didnt have the money?

Also, I slightly disagree that its immaterial that she's in a position to pay back herself.. I know that legally she's probably safe, because the campaign is its own legal entity.. however, you can be personally liable if you are gross negligent even behind a corporate shield.

But yeah.. after Texas people should have demanded money up front - they had it coming

Anyway - thanks for the clarifications.. Still sorta boggles my mind that she has the audacity to go ask for money now. And in the same breath also is a ding in obama's rep; I realize that he has to support her, but asking his base to donate to her seems crazy.

Oh well, I cant vote anyway, just thought it was interesting.

Last edited by ravan; 06-30-08 at 12:21 AM.
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Old 06-30-08, 12:36 AM
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Isn't this idea of helping your opponent repay campaign debts something that is, if not standard procedure, not unusual or unprecedented?

And everyone is just now making a big deal out of it since it's the Clintons?
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Old 06-30-08, 09:06 AM
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Originally Posted by Red Dog
Can I ask why someone would want to donate money to a politician who has already lost? I have no problem with someone doing it, but I just don't see why one would want to.
Maybe so Dalton Hatfield can get his bike back???



But seriously -- no, I don't see it either. Unless you are so fervent a Hillary Clinton supporter that you honestly believe she can win in 2012 or 2016, and you see this as an investment in the future...



Old expression -- some people have more dollars than sense.
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Old 06-30-08, 09:37 AM
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Originally Posted by Josh-da-man
Isn't this idea of helping your opponent repay campaign debts something that is, if not standard procedure, not unusual or unprecedented?

And everyone is just now making a big deal out of it since it's the Clintons?
Has this type of request been reported in past presidential elections? I don't ever remember hearing about this type of thing before now. I've heard about campaigns being in debt when their candidate bowed out, but that was pretty much it. This whole "primary winner requesting donations to help out the loser" is new to me.
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Old 06-30-08, 09:50 AM
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Romney poured a lot of his own money into his campaign. How has he been handling these issues? Or is that a whole different ballgame?
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