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FLDS Texas Standoff [Merged]

Old 04-05-08, 10:43 PM
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FLDS Texas Standoff [Merged]

What Is It About Texas.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/23958307

ELDORADO, Texas - Sect leaders at a polygamist compound in West Texas refused Saturday to let authorities search a temple for a teenage girl whose report of abuse led to the raid, and authorities said they were preparing "for the worst."

If no agreement is reached with sect leaders, authorities will forcibly remove the sect's followers "as peaceably as possible," Allison Palmer, a prosecutor in Tom Green County, told the San Angelo Standard-Times.

Medical workers are being sent "in case this were to a go in a way that no one wants," Palmer said. Law enforcers are "preparing for the worst," she said.

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advertisement (Clink link for naked 15-year old girls! )

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"Within the religion that we have encountered, their place of worship is very special to them," Palmer said. "It appears to be of great concern to them if a person from outside their congregation even attempts to step inside their place of worship."

Documents say girl had baby at age 15

A search warrant authorized troopers to enter the retreat, run by the Fundamentalist Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints. They are looking for evidence of a marriage between the girl and a 50-year-old man.

Court documents say the girl had a baby eight months ago, when she was 15.

State welfare officials on Friday removed 52 girls from the compound. Marleigh Meisner, a spokeswoman for Child Protective Services, said another 131 residents were removed overnight. By Saturday afternoon, 137 children and 46 women were being housed and interviewed at local community centers.

"They seem to be doing fine," Meisner said. Investigators remained inside the compound looking for additional children, she said.

The whereabouts of the 16-year-old mother who sparked the investigation are unknown, Meisner said. State troopers who raided the religious retreat were looking for the girl, her baby girl and 50-year-old Dale Barlow.

Under Texas law, girls younger than 16 cannot marry, even with parental approval.

Suspect in Arizona?

Officials in Texas declined to comment Saturday on whether they had found Barlow, citing a gag order, but the man's probation officer told The Salt Lake Tribune that he was in Arizona.

"He said the authorities had called him (in Colorado City, Arizona) and some girl had accused him of assaulting her and he didn't even know who she was," said Bill Loader, a probation officer in Arizona.

Barlow was sentenced to jail time last year after pleading no contest to conspiracy to commit sexual conduct with a minor. He was also ordered to register as a sex offender for three years while he is on probation.

His lawyer in that case, Bruce Griffen, said he had not spoken to Barlow in a year.

The search warrant instructed officers to look for marriage records or other evidence linking her to the man and the baby. The warrant authorized the seizure of computer drives, CDs, DVDs or photos.

Those inside the retreat did not respond to requests for comment.

Breaking away from Mormon church

The Fundamentalist Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints broke away from the Mormon church after the latter disavowed polygamy more than a century ago.

The compound sits down a narrow paved road and behind a hill that shields it almost entirely from view in town. Only the 80-foot-high, gleaming white temple can be seen on the horizon. Authorities blocked access to the gate, keeping onlookers miles away.

The 1,700-acre property had been an exotic game ranch. It is surrounded by dusty, wind-swept land where sheep are raised and mohair produced.

Eldorado is a two-stoplight town of fewer than 2,000 people and located nearly 200 miles northwest of San Antonio. It consists of a cluster of government buildings, a couple churches and a few blocks of houses.

State officials said they did not know how many people lived at the retreat, although local officials estimated about 150 two years ago.

The FLDS has been led by Warren Jeffs since his father died in 2002. In November, Jeffs was sentenced to two consecutive sentences of five years to life in prison in Utah for being an accomplice to the rape of a 14-year-old girl who wed her cousin in an arranged marriage in 2001.

In Arizona, Jeffs is charged as an accomplice with four counts each of incest and sexual conduct with a minor stemming from two arranged marriages between teenage girls and their older male relatives. He is jailed in Kingman, Arizona, awaiting trial.

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Obviously, we have images of Waco in our heads, and thus, the political forum.
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Old 04-05-08, 11:35 PM
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Janet Reno's on the case!
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Old 04-06-08, 09:12 AM
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Dammit, I clicked the link... where are the naked 15 year old girls?

Wait a sec -- there's somebody knocking on the door...
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Old 04-06-08, 11:47 AM
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167 kids taken in Texas raid

Police seeking man in child-bride marriage
By Ben Winslow
Deseret Morning News
Published: Saturday, April 5, 2008 12:37 a.m. MDT
117 comments

Authorities have removed 167 children from the Fundamentalist LDS Church's compound near Eldorado, Texas, after a raid over allegations of child sex abuse on the Utah-based polygamous sect's ranch.

School buses and church buses commandeered by law enforcement ferried the children from the YFZ Ranch. Some of the girls, wearing the prairie-style dresses so common to the fundamentalist border towns of Hildale, Utah, and Colorado City, Ariz., appeared nervous. Child protective services workers said they range in age from 6 months to 17 years.


Authorities said 18 girls were immediately placed in state protective custody.

"We concluded they had been abused or were at immediate risk of future abuse," said Darrell Azar, a spokesman for the Texas Department of Family and Protective Services. "Under Texas law, either one is grounds for removal."

The children are being kept at a civic center where cots have been set up and local churches are providing food.

"There's 96 boys and 71 girls," Randy Mankin, the editor of the Eldorado Success newspaper, said late Friday night. "I understand there's some underage girls that are pregnant."

The children are being interviewed by child welfare workers to determine whether they need to be placed in protective custody or foster care. A court hearing will be held on Monday, Mankin said.

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"We're dealing with children that aren't accustomed to the outside world, and so we're trying to be very, very sensitive to their needs," said Marleigh Meisner with child protective services.

More people will be questioned on the YFZ Ranch today.

Meanwhile, police are also serving a pair of warrants for a man accused of marrying and fathering a child with a 16-year-old girl.

"We are now serving search and arrest warrants at the property for individuals covered in those warrants," said Tom Vinger with the Texas Department of Public Safety. "Nobody's been arrested at this time."

The warrant reportedly seeks records dealing with the birth of children to a 16-year-old girl, and any records of a marriage between a 50-year-old man and the girl. Texas authorities said their investigation began when a 16-year-old girl who lives on the YFZ Ranch called child protective services earlier this week.

"She said she was being sexually abused," Schleicher County Attorney Raymond Loomis Jr. told the Deseret Morning News.

Azar said the girl also claimed to have suffered physical abuse.

State and local law enforcement officers went to the ranch late Thursday with an armored personnel carrier, the Eldorado Success reported. Police set up roadblocks and blocked off the entrances and exits to the compound. Air space above the ranch was restricted, preventing small planes or helicopters from flying overhead.

Police described the FLDS people on the ranch as cooperative.

"They're being cooperative and providing us with all the people we need to speak to," said Vinger. "It's sensitive, but it's going well."


The YFZ Ranch is the site of the polygamous sect's first-ever temple, which was completed in 2006. "YFZ" stands for "Yearning for Zion," after a song penned by FLDS leader Warren Jeffs.

The group purchased the 1,600-acre property several years ago under the guise that it would be a "hunting retreat." Since then, a small city has been built on the outskirts of Eldorado, a western Texas prairie town. Few outsiders are allowed onto the ranch, but viewed from the air the growth of the YFZ Ranch is stunning. Men, women and children are frequently seen working in the fields or constructing buildings.

Faced with the history of the deadly stand-off at Waco, Schleicher County Sheriff David Doran has tried to build relationships with members of the FLDS Church. He has kept in communication with them during key moments of the government crackdown on the polygamous church. It was Doran who broke the news to them about Jeffs' arrest and the polygamist's conviction in Utah last year on rape as an accomplice.

Jeffs is serving two 5-to-life sentences for performing a marriage between a 14-year-old girl and her 19-year-old cousin. He is currently in Arizona, where he faces charges of sexual misconduct and incest, accusing him of performing more child-bride marriages. Prior to his capture, Jeffs was on the FBI's Ten Most Wanted list.

Doran declined to comment on the raid when reached at the compound by the Deseret Morning News on Friday. Texas child welfare workers insisted this was not religious persecution or a crackdown on polygamy.

"We are only interested in protecting children from abuse and neglect," Azar said. "Child protective services has treated this case just like any of the thousands of cases we handle each year. The only difference is the setting and the number of children involved."

In southern Utah, Washington County Sheriff Kirk Smith was consulting with Texas authorities on the raid.

"I've been working with Sheriff Doran, giving him background information on people and the group," he told the Deseret Morning News.

Late Friday night, Washington County sheriff's deputies reallocated their patrols closer to the Hildale area. Deputies said it was just in case anyone needed help.

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http://deseretnews.com/article/1,5143,695267712,00.html

It's not going to be a Waco situation. The authorities have been inside the compound for days, and are taking people's children away by the busload. The people are cooperating, even so.

The members are only objecting to letting nonbelievers into the temple. Maybe the FBI can bring in a group of policemen from Utah who are members of the LDS.

Last edited by Nick Danger; 04-06-08 at 11:50 AM.
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Old 04-06-08, 12:04 PM
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Mass scooping of children always makes me nervous. I know the history of them in Canada is not good and has led to a lot of problems. I wonder what the history in the US is like in comparison.

I also wonder if this apprehension of children there will lead to more boldness by my province's authorities against the Bountiful commune that exists here in BC.
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Old 04-06-08, 01:08 PM
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Well, the authorities had to intervene, otherwise, this cult scheme would have continued on for who knows how long.

They already went into the temple but didn't find the girl who made the initial complaint. Hopefully, they'll find her unharmed.
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Old 04-07-08, 07:27 AM
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Since when is it a crime to corral White Women?

The terrorists have won...
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Old 04-07-08, 02:04 PM
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Originally Posted by Ranger
Well, the authorities had to intervene, otherwise, this cult scheme would have continued on for who knows how long.

They already went into the temple but didn't find the girl who made the initial complaint. Hopefully, they'll find her unharmed.
So... had they gone in and the people inside freaked out and burned the place to t he ground and killed everyone.. would you still say they should have intervened?

I agree with what you are saying but I always find it interested how when things go down peacefully people say they did what they had to and it was good.. but when the same actions create unpleasant results people say they shouldn't have done it.
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Old 04-07-08, 04:50 PM
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Originally Posted by Ranger
They already went into the temple but didn't find the girl who made the initial complaint. Hopefully, they'll find her unharmed.
You assume there is such a girl.

After watching the news over the weekend, there seems to be no shortage of people who hate this "lifestyle" (I have no comment on what is alledged to happen in these compounds because I don't know what really happens in these "religious" sects), and it wouldn't surprise me if it was a bogus call to instigate what may be an illegal raid.
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Old 04-07-08, 07:03 PM
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Legalize polygamy, change age of consent to 13 and we're done.
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Old 04-07-08, 07:48 PM
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What I can say, is like other compounds like these, you have an extremely high rate of child sexual abuse and severe problems when the child grows up outside of the compound.

I think these types of places should give unconditional access to state authorities and counselors to find if there is in fact, abuse going on. These types of "religious" compounds need a more scrutinizing eye because of their disconnection from societal rules and regulations.

There's only one particular reason why a guy wants to start a compound with a bunch of women and have little girls around him at all times.
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Old 04-08-08, 08:25 AM
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Originally Posted by kvrdave
Legalize polygamy, change age of consent to 13 and we're done.

Legalize it!!!
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Old 04-08-08, 06:10 PM
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Old 04-08-08, 07:13 PM
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Originally Posted by kvrdave
Legalize polygamy, change age of consent to 13 and we're done.
We'll they're going to do it anyways...we should make it as clean and safe as possible!

I just love that rationale...
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Old 04-08-08, 10:25 PM
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Makes me think about isolated groups like the Amish. But I figure they'd never let their kids marry that young.
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Old 04-08-08, 10:35 PM
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Just keep'em away from animals.
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Old 04-14-08, 06:34 PM
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Mormons From Raided Ranch Are Complaining

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First look: Quiet is unnerving as FLDS members seek answers
Copyright 2008 Deseret Morning News

By Nancy Perkins and Brian West
Deseret News
Published: Sunday, April 13, 2008 1:02 a.m. MDT
448 comments
RELATED CONTENT | E-MAIL | PRINT | FONT + -

* FLDS parents hit with court papers for pending custody battle
* Fort Concho: Tight quarters, fear taking toll on moms, children
* Rangers quiz Barlow, let him go
* Life's tough for FLDS man without family
* First look inside YFZ Ranch

Today's coverage and videos Raid aftermath: Cell phones are confiscated

Editor's note: For exclusive video from the YFZ Ranch, click here.

YFZ RANCH, Texas The children's shoes still sit neatly, side by side where they last left them. Child-sized shovels and miniature wheelbarrows sit on the porch of their three-story, log cabin-like home.

The only noise now emanating from this 1,700-acre compound is the rustle of the wind, birds chirping, the occasional scurry of a roadrunner or a truck traveling along the dirt roads.

"It's miserable. It's too quiet," says Nancy, struggling to keep her emotional voice loud enough to be heard.

This grandmother and others at the reclusive ranch belonging to the Fundamentalist LDS Church on Saturday allowed the Deseret News onto their land and into their homes, which were raided last week by Texas authorities. All 416 children who lived there were removed and placed into temporary state custody.

It was the first time they had allowed the media access to places they consider private and sacred. During interviews with ranch residents, FLDS officials insisted that questions remain focused on the children's plight and declined to discuss other topics, including allegations of physical and sexual abuse.

Those who spoke asked that only their first names be used.

Collectively, their hearts are broken but their spirits undaunted.

"If you know what it's like to have a little child look you in the eyes, throw their arms around your neck, smile and give you a hug, then you know what it's like (here now)," she said, turning her head and sobbing into her shoulder.

The leader of the Yearning For Zion Ranch says he doesn't understand how the government could sweep in and seize all their children based on an unproven allegation.

"This whole situation is abusive and out of hand," said Merril Jessop, a presiding elder in the FLDS Church. "The nearest thing I have ever seen comparable to this, even on the TV shows, is Nazi Germany."

"The only thing we ask of the governor and citizens of Texas," Jessop said, "is to give every man, woman and child due process and an attorney before they destroy their lives."

Jessop extended Texas' governor an invitation to come and see where these children are now and what conditions they are being placed under and then to come and see what kind of home they were taken from.

Jessop then went one further, inviting a fellow Texan, President George Bush, to come and see what the state is doing to its citizens. "What can be more important than the safety and protection of the children of America?" he asked.

'Children are our life'

Nancy was at the ranch when Texas rangers and other authorities began taking away the children. She said they knocked on the door of her home, walked in, separated the children, began interviewing "and didn't give us an explanation of what they were doing," she said.

She and other mothers declined to answer the officers' questions about which child belonged to who. "They told us we're going to take the children unless you tell us who are their mothers. But we still weren't saying anything," she recalled. Then she heard them call for backup.

Nancy, who was holding a baby in her arms, said one officer "poked their face into our face" and loudly said, "Give me that baby!"

"I said, 'I'm not going to do that,'" she said.

Although child welfare workers allowed most of the mothers to accompany their children to the temporary shelters, Nancy said she was not allowed to go. She stood helpless in the doorway and watched as her children, grandchildren and family members were loaded onto buses.

"The children would cry and hang onto their mothers," she said, trembling and wiping away tears.

"I get my strength from my Heavenly Father, but I can't believe something like this could even happen in America.... How could they take families and tear the children away? They're mentally abusing those children."

'Nowhere to go'

Monica, a mother of five children between the ages of 11 and 3, said she wants the world to know her children were happy and safe at home.

"We love our children. We love family life. Our children are our life. We do all we can to make sure they are cared for and have an education," she said. "They have manners and are trained well in loving and blessing others."

She was out of state for an appointment when she heard that her home was being raided. She quickly returned to the ranch but wasn't allowed inside. "I had nowhere to go," said Monica, 34.

Her sister is taking care of her 3-year-old at a makeshift shelter in San Angelo, about 50 miles away. A cousin is looking after the others. She tried to join the 139 mothers that were allowed to accompany their children, but the Texas Department of Family and Protective Services won't allow her inside.

"I have driven past the area where they are, and it's completely surrounded by police," she said. "I'm sure I could walk up to the door and get arrested ... and then what's going to happen to my children?"

When she was finally allowed to return to her home on the ranch, because of an ongoing search of the property by authorities, she said nothing was the same.

"Can you imagine what it's like to come back to nothing? Empty, ransacked homes, many things were taken, no pictures left."

She was able to find some pictures of when her children were younger, but all others were confiscated.

"I want the world to know that there is a nothing stronger than love and there is an inborn, God-given love between a mother and her children, and all a mother wants for her children is the very best" Monica said.

Despite her sorrow and frustration, she says she has faith that she will see her children again.

"I know I can't give up. I have to stay at it," she said. "I know with Heavenly Father's help I will be able to get them back."

'I couldn't believe it'

Shannon, a mother who was also off the ranch when officers served the search warrants, said she's also tried several times to see her three children but has been refused.

"Every day I've called them. They put me off saying they don't have the authority to let me in and there's no proof the children are mine. I tell them the children know who their mother is, and I know who my children are," she said.

The 30-year-old says she provided child welfare officials with identification and even birth certificates proving she is her children's mother. She says she and other mothers were told those documents could have been fake.

"I couldn't believe it. I wondered if we were in America or Russia," Shannon said. "I kept thinking, 'How can they do that?' They're breaking every rule. They're breaking every law."

Shannon has been told that her youngest child, who is just 2 years old, clings to her caretaker in the shelter. "She's sick right now and needs her mother."

Texas officials say they removed the children because they believe they're being abused or neglected. The raid was authorized by a judge after workers at a family domestic hotline reported receiving calls from a pregnant 16-year-old girl claiming she was being abused and was afraid to leave the ranch.

Shannon insists the children were not in any harmful environment at the ranch and were well-loved and cared for.

"We are not child abusers. We take very good care of them. These are innocent and sweet children," she said.

"The only abuse my children have ever had is since they've been taken away."
What right do these wackjobs have to complain? They were fucking abusing kids, and forcing them to marry young, and now they want to act all righteous? I say fuck them, the cops should round ALL of them up, and stick them in jail.
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Old 04-14-08, 07:09 PM
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Religious freedom. The day it became illegal to round up pretty young white women for sex was the day America lost its "heart and soul" and it's focus on what's good and right about our great land. Clearly we need to get back to the values and morals that made us <i>The</i> greatest nation on Earth; where every man can be true to <i>the</i> one True God, an raise his children in the singular path of righteousness.

I weep for America.
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Old 04-14-08, 07:13 PM
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"This whole situation is abusive and out of hand," said Merril Jessop, a presiding elder in the FLDS Church. "The nearest thing I have ever seen comparable to this, even on the TV shows, is Nazi Germany."
I'm sure the U.S. gov't is gassing their children at this very moment.

Please
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Old 04-14-08, 07:21 PM
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i dug a stone up in my yard the other day that had unreadable wording on it...

then i found a seer stone that magically allowed me to read those words...

the words say everything those cats in those 'communities' are doing is OK...

but i lost the stone, you'll have to trust me...
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Old 04-14-08, 07:27 PM
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Originally Posted by Dr Mabuse
i dug a stone up in my yard the other day that had unreadable wording on it...

then i found a seer stone that magically allowed me to read those words...

the words say everything those cats in those 'communities' are doing is OK...

but i lost the stone, you'll have to trust me...
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Old 04-14-08, 07:31 PM
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So this is what the headline, "Polygamist Women Appeal to Texas Governor" must've been referring to this morning! Boy was I wrong...
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Old 04-14-08, 07:40 PM
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Yea stick them in jail, that will accomplish a lot
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Old 04-14-08, 07:47 PM
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Old 04-14-08, 08:23 PM
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The FDLS are not Mormons.

Mormons is the nickname for the members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints (LDS).

The people in that compound are members of The Fundamentalist Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints (FLDS).

Mods, can we please get a title change? Change "Mormons" to "FLDS Members" if you would please.
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