Religion, Politics and World Events They make great dinner conversation, don't you think? plus Political Film
View Poll Results: ???
Domestic: I think Bush has helped the US
23
21.70%
Domestic: I don't think Bush has helped or harmed the US
13
12.26%
Domestic: I think Bush has harmed the US but the next admin can fix it
34
32.08%
Domestic: same as above, but it has to be a Dem admin
13
12.26%
Domestic: Bush has irreparably harmed the US
27
25.47%
International: I think Bush has helped the US
15
14.15%
International: I don't think Bush has helped or harmed the US
12
11.32%
International: I think Bush has harmed the US but the next admin can fix it
31
29.25%
International: same as above, but it has to be a Dem admin
15
14.15%
International: Bush has irreparably harmed the US
30
28.30%
Multiple Choice Poll. Voters: 106. You may not vote on this poll

Has Bush irreparably harmed the US?

Old 05-09-07, 09:43 AM
  #1  
Moderator
Thread Starter
 
nemein's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 1999
Location: 1bit away from total disaster
Posts: 34,141
Has Bush irreparably harmed the US?

Listening to some people out there would think it was the end of the world (or atleast the US) and there's no way we are going to recover from the "damage" Bush has done. Either to the economy, or international relations or pick a subject... So a simple question, do you think Bush has taken the US to such a point (either domestically, internationally or both) that it won't come back to it's former status?

Last edited by nemein; 05-09-07 at 09:49 AM.
nemein is offline  
Old 05-09-07, 09:51 AM
  #2  
DVD Talk Hero
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Portland, OR
Posts: 25,062
I think it's more likely that the U.S. is on a long slow decline that no one president is going to do much about. We had our century.
Tracer Bullet is offline  
Old 05-09-07, 09:51 AM
  #3  
DVD Talk God
 
Join Date: Jun 1999
Posts: 68,522
He's certainly damaged our military capability - and not just for the short-term.

This damage is most apparent in the National Guard and Reserve components of our armed forces.

I don't know if our 'status' can ever be restored - unless we can find another Soviet Union boogey-man (is that the way to spell it?).
classicman2 is offline  
Old 05-09-07, 09:54 AM
  #4  
Moderator
Thread Starter
 
nemein's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 1999
Location: 1bit away from total disaster
Posts: 34,141
unless we can find another Soviet Union boogey-man
Isn't that what the Islamic terrorist is supposed to be, or are you saying we need another "state" to face off against?
nemein is offline  
Old 05-09-07, 10:01 AM
  #5  
DVD Talk Ruler
 
General Zod's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: Santa Clarita, CA
Posts: 21,442
Originally Posted by classicman2
He's certainly damaged our military capability - and not just for the short-term.

This damage is most apparent in the National Guard and Reserve components of our armed forces.
To be fair I think the damage to the military is thanks to both Bush and Clinton. Clinton did severely cut the size and funding of the military while he was in office so I think both administrations have contributed to our diminished capability. Bush took our already diminished resources and spread it too thin.
General Zod is offline  
Old 05-09-07, 10:26 AM
  #6  
DVD Talk Hero
 
CRM114's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Posts: 42,731
Originally Posted by General Zod
To be fair I think the damage to the military is thanks to both Bush and Clinton. Clinton did severely cut the size and funding of the military while he was in office so I think both administrations have contributed to our diminished capability. Bush took our already diminished resources and spread it too thin.
Uh, you may want to recheck history.

The defense and intelligence cuts during George HW Bush's presidency were recommended by none other than Dick Cheney. Cheney recommended to REAGAN gutting the military. Cheney bragged about his defense cuts when he was SoD:

“Overall, since I've been Secretary, we will have taken the five-year defense program down by well over $300 billion. That's the peace dividend. … And now we're adding to that another $50 billion … of so-called peace dividend.”

“Congress has let me cancel a few programs. But you've squabbled and sometimes bickered and horse-traded and ended up forcing me to spend money on weapons that don't fill a vital need in these times of tight budgets and new requirements. … You've directed me to buy more M-1s, F-14s, and F-16s—all great systems … but we have enough of them.”

“This is just a list of some of the programs that I've recommended termination: the V-22 Osprey, the F-14D, the Army Helicopter Improvement Program, Phoenix missile, F-15E, the Apache helicopter, the M1 tank, et cetera.”


Enough with the lies about Democrat defense cuts.
CRM114 is offline  
Old 05-09-07, 10:29 AM
  #7  
DVD Talk God
 
Join Date: Jun 1999
Posts: 68,522
Originally Posted by General Zod
To be fair I think the damage to the military is thanks to both Bush and Clinton. Clinton did severely cut the size and funding of the military while he was in office so I think both administrations have contributed to our diminished capability. Bush took our already diminished resources and spread it too thin.
How could Clinton severely cut the size and funding of the military when he was in office? You're conveniently leaving out the central role of the Congress.

How many of those 8 years was the Republicans in control of the Congress?

How many defense appropriation bills presented to him by the Republican Congress did Clinton veto?
classicman2 is offline  
Old 05-09-07, 10:32 AM
  #8  
DVD Talk God
 
Join Date: Jun 1999
Posts: 68,522
Originally Posted by nemein
Isn't that what the Islamic terrorist is supposed to be, or are you saying we need another "state" to face off against?
A state would be much more preferable.

The public understood the threat (or what we were told was the threat) posed by the Soviet Union.
classicman2 is offline  
Old 05-09-07, 10:43 AM
  #9  
DVD Talk Legend
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 14,204
Irreparably? I dunno. I am, as always, the eternal optimist. I think that any President not named Bush that comes into office in 2009 -- Democrat or Republican -- is going to enjoy an international grace period. That's one advantage of our political system -- every 4-8 years, there's a new face on the government, and mistakes can be rectified. I think there is a diplomatic solution with Iran. I think we can work with our allies to truly make the world safer. I think Iraq can go from being an unmitigated disaster to a mitigated disaster. Oh, call me a dreamer, but I have a lot of faith in our potential.

On the issue of Islamic fundamentalism and terrorism -- wow, I don't know. We're talking generational damage here. Bush took the flames from 9/11 and, instead of putting out the fire, just poured gasoline all over it. He legitimized the ragtag criminals in al Qaeda by making this a "crusade" and a "war on terror". He fueled their propaganda by invading an oil-rich Arab state. He took his eye off the ball in Afghanistan, and refused to fully commit to the task of tracking down Osama bin Ladin. And his campaign of "shock and awe", and his tacit approval of torture at Guantanamo and Abu Graib, has created a new generation of terrorists who have been shown only the cruel savage mocking face of American imperialism.

On top of that, you can throw on the damage caused by our exploding deficit (trillions of dollars of accumulated debt), environmental damage (global warming), the continuing abuse of executive privelege (massive wiretapping and an erosion of civil liberties)...

Yeah, it could all be fixed up, I suppose. After all, it only took him 6 years to get us to this point -- in theory, it could all be undone.
NCMojo is offline  
Old 05-09-07, 10:59 AM
  #10  
DVD Talk Legend
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 14,204
Originally Posted by Rockmjd23
Domestic: helped.
NCMojo is offline  
Old 05-09-07, 11:31 AM
  #11  
DVD Talk God
 
kvrdave's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 1999
Location: Pacific NW
Posts: 86,201
Originally Posted by CRM114
Enough with the lies about Democrat defense cuts.
Democrats are weak on defense and everyone knows it, Just look to the electorate, if you don't believe me.
kvrdave is offline  
Old 05-09-07, 11:52 AM
  #12  
DVD Talk Hero
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: in da cloud
Posts: 26,196
Originally Posted by General Zod
To be fair I think the damage to the military is thanks to both Bush and Clinton. Clinton did severely cut the size and funding of the military while he was in office so I think both administrations have contributed to our diminished capability. Bush took our already diminished resources and spread it too thin.

when i was in the army back in the 1990's it was the democrats who were for higher funding of the military especially higher salaries for servicemen and women.
al_bundy is offline  
Old 05-09-07, 11:54 AM
  #13  
DVD Talk Hero
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: in da cloud
Posts: 26,196
Originally Posted by Tracer Bullet
I think it's more likely that the U.S. is on a long slow decline that no one president is going to do much about. We had our century.
how is the US on a decline? Europe, Japan and China had a really bad 20th century and now they are recovering. back in the early 1900's the US was where China is today. with these regions growing it's going to be a smaller spread between where the US is and other parts of the world, but in the end it will probably mean a larger pie for everyone
al_bundy is offline  
Old 05-09-07, 12:15 PM
  #14  
DVD Talk Hero
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Portland, OR
Posts: 25,062
Originally Posted by al_bundy
how is the US on a decline? Europe, Japan and China had a really bad 20th century and now they are recovering. back in the early 1900's the US was where China is today. with these regions growing it's going to be a smaller spread between where the US is and other parts of the world, but in the end it will probably mean a larger pie for everyone
I just mean that we're probably not going to be the de facto world leader any longer. We used to be able to project our power. Now we're facing our second defeat. We just can't do this stuff anymore.
Tracer Bullet is offline  
Old 05-09-07, 12:21 PM
  #15  
DVD Talk Legend
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 14,204
Originally Posted by Rockmjd23
I think the Patriot Act, tax cuts, and economy are areas he has succeeded. Obviously you don't agree, but its not like that's a suprise.
No, not really. I just think that even if you want to give him credit for the Patriot Act (which I see as doing more harm than good), and tax cuts and the economy (I would say the economy is actually very sluggish considering we're engaged in a protracted war) -- you have to subtract out the whole mess with Katrina, the environmental policies, the deficit, increased partisanship and polarization, the failure of immigration reform, lack of promised funding for education, first responders, border security, etc. I think on the whole -- even if you grant your points about the Patriot Act and the economy -- on the whole, I can't see how we're better off domestically.
NCMojo is offline  
Old 05-09-07, 12:40 PM
  #16  
DVD Talk Legend
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 14,204
Originally Posted by Rockmjd23
People have different opinions. Shit happens.
Agreed.
NCMojo is offline  
Old 05-09-07, 01:18 PM
  #17  
bhk
DVD Talk Legend
 
Join Date: May 1999
Location: Right of Atilla The Hun
Posts: 19,749
Home: great help.

Internationally: Hurt but the people that have always hated us are now more vocal. Fighting terrorists was absolutely the right thing to do. As was invading Iraq.
bhk is offline  
Old 05-09-07, 01:52 PM
  #18  
DVD Talk God
 
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: Directionally Challenged (for DirecTV)
Posts: 122,951
Yes, but that's only because I don't see any savoir coming anytime in the foreseeable future.
Red Dog is offline  
Old 05-09-07, 01:54 PM
  #19  
DVD Talk Hall of Fame
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Chicago
Posts: 8,159
Domestically, he's done well.

Foreign policy? Fairly close to an unmittigated disaster, despite the completely unfair treatment he's received in the press and public.
Hiro11 is offline  
Old 05-09-07, 02:09 PM
  #20  
DVD Talk Special Edition
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 1,621
This is the most ridiculous poll ever. Irreparably? Even if I bought into everything all the anti-Bush, Bush is an evil nazi imperialist capitalist pig crowd believes in he still wouldn't have irreparably harmed the US. Thats just a little stretch.
IMRICKJAMES is offline  
Old 05-09-07, 02:15 PM
  #21  
Moderator
 
wendersfan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Nuova Repubblica di Salò
Posts: 32,884
I'm not a psychic, so there's no way I could judge how irreparably or not the president has harmed the US. If I were to grade his performance I'd give him a C- domestically and an F for foreign policy.
wendersfan is online now  
Old 05-09-07, 02:26 PM
  #22  
Moderator
Thread Starter
 
nemein's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 1999
Location: 1bit away from total disaster
Posts: 34,141
Originally Posted by IMRICKJAMES
This is the most ridiculous poll ever.
Take that grundle




Irreparably? Even if I bought into everything all the anti-Bush, Bush is an evil nazi imperialist capitalist pig crowd believes in he still wouldn't have irreparably harmed the US. Thats just a little stretch.
That's may basic opinion too, but if you listen to some people out there Bush has destroyed the US. That's why I gave the range of options I did in the poll. You have the 2 extremes and 3 positions in between. How would you have worded it?
nemein is offline  
Old 05-09-07, 03:16 PM
  #23  
DVD Talk Hero
 
CRM114's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Posts: 42,731
Originally Posted by Tracer Bullet
I just mean that we're probably not going to be the de facto world leader any longer. We used to be able to project our power. Now we're facing our second defeat. We just can't do this stuff anymore.
I don't know. In WWII, we'd just firebomb cities of civilians and we ultimately nuked a couple. We certainly could still do that and "win" but have we moved beyond that?
CRM114 is offline  
Old 05-09-07, 03:17 PM
  #24  
DVD Talk Hall of Fame
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: San Diego, CA
Posts: 7,533
Certainly harmed the US domestically. And by that I mean in terms of his completely failure and lack of will to shut down the border.

Certainly helped us internationally. We haven't had any terrorist attacks on our soil since 9/11. And right now al Qaeda is all bunched up in Iraq, where if we had the guts, we'd eliminate them while they are there.
nodeerforamonth is offline  
Old 05-09-07, 03:19 PM
  #25  
DVD Talk Hall of Fame
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: San Diego, CA
Posts: 7,533
Still, it's TOO EARLY to tell if he's helped/harmed the US internationally/domestically.

Ask again in 10-15 years.
nodeerforamonth is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service

Copyright © 2018 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.