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Was: 24 - The political discussion -- Is Now: Yet another thread on media bias

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Was: 24 - The political discussion -- Is Now: Yet another thread on media bias

Old 02-04-07, 02:35 PM
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Was: 24 - The political discussion -- Is Now: Yet another thread on media bias

I split this off from the Children of Men thread because the statement that 24 was a neo-cons wet dream was repeated a bunch of times.


The above statement is true....if you have never seen the show AND have no idea what a neo-con is.

The show depicts an endless, almost unstoppable stream of terrorist attacks on american soil, thousands upon thousands have been murdered in the last 7 years. TWO nuclear devices have been detonated within the borders, and the governemt at large is completly powerless to stop them. There is no foerign nation, no alien terrorist camp that can be bombed that would stop this.

But thats just the backstory of the show....what the story is REALLY about is the tragedy of one man...the only truely good and honest person still alive we meet during the shows run is Jack Bauer, a man whos service to his country and saving lives has completly annihilated his life, destroying his family and turning him into a shell of a human being. It never seems like it can get worse, but every time it does...doing the right thing has backfired, to the point now that all he has is doing the right thing, because his life consists of nothing else.

This, and the fact that the greatest, wisest President on the show was a Black Democrat, and of teh TWO Republican presidents, one was assasinated, and the other was a bigger crook than Nixon.


So, can someone explain the neo-con wet dream garbage to me?
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Old 02-04-07, 02:40 PM
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Originally Posted by Tommy Ceez
So, can someone explain the neo-con wet dream garbage to me?
Sure. It's a television show. Don't believe everything you see on tv.
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Old 02-04-07, 03:22 PM
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Originally Posted by Tommy Ceez
I split this off from the Children of Men thread because the statement that 24 was a neo-cons wet dream was repeated a bunch of times.


The above statement is true....if you have never seen the show AND have no idea what a neo-con is.

The show depicts an endless, almost unstoppable stream of terrorist attacks on american soil, thousands upon thousands have been murdered in the last 7 years. TWO nuclear devices have been detonated within the borders, and the governemt at large is completly powerless to stop them. There is no foerign nation, no alien terrorist camp that can be bombed that would stop this.

But thats just the backstory of the show....what the story is REALLY about is the tragedy of one man...the only truely good and honest person still alive we meet during the shows run is Jack Bauer, a man whos service to his country and saving lives has completly annihilated his life, destroying his family and turning him into a shell of a human being. It never seems like it can get worse, but every time it does...doing the right thing has backfired, to the point now that all he has is doing the right thing, because his life consists of nothing else.

This, and the fact that the greatest, wisest President on the show was a Black Democrat, and of teh TWO Republican presidents, one was assasinated, and the other was a bigger crook than Nixon.


So, can someone explain the neo-con wet dream garbage to me?
Actually, if you've been paying attention, a number of liberals, including me, have repeatedly stated that we did NOT see the conservative bias of this show. Speaking for myself, I see the show as pure entertainment and nothing more. Most of the "good guys" on the show have had a rather middle to left bias if anything. As you mentioned, the black president. Also, Karen Hayes (great actress btw) is set as an example of a liberal who IS looking out for the best interests of the country. I think very few would view her as an impediment or the bad guy (well, maybe a few here would). Peter Nicols' character is an ultra-conservative who is clearly one detention camp away from being a straight up Nazi. In fact, sometimes I think the inspiration for his character was drawn from this board (no comment on who). Jack killed Curtis for threatening a former terrorist. The bad guys behind the scenes are the American companies whose only interest is to make money. Clearly a negative portrait of corporate America. Regarding terrorism, I think the show has done a good job of painting a fuzzy line between terrorism and government policies without painting terrorism in a sympathetic light. I'm quite happy with their depiction actually and surprised it's a Fox show. Still - it's just entertainment.

Last edited by hahn; 02-04-07 at 03:31 PM.
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Old 02-04-07, 03:25 PM
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Originally Posted by Tommy Ceez
So, can someone explain the neo-con wet dream garbage to me?
Its on Fox so it must be teh EVIL!
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Old 02-04-07, 03:32 PM
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Originally Posted by crazyronin
Its on Fox so it must be teh EVIL!
It's on Fox, so all liberals must be incapable of viewing it with an open mind.
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Old 02-04-07, 03:35 PM
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One of the villains in the current season is an unabashed neo-con.

I hope they show a good neo-con to balance it out.
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Old 02-04-07, 03:36 PM
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Originally Posted by hahn
It's on Fox, so all liberals must be incapable of viewing it with an open mind.
More than once in this sub-forum I have seen

Originally Posted by Attacking the source
But that link is from Fox News wtflolbbq!!1!!
so
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Old 02-04-07, 03:51 PM
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Note that there's never anybody attacking the source on the other side, by calling CNN the "Clinton News Network" for instance.
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Old 02-04-07, 03:58 PM
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Originally Posted by Groucho
Note that there's never anybody attacking the source on the other side, by calling CNN the "Clinton News Network" for instance.
So that makes either side doing it OK how?
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Old 02-04-07, 04:01 PM
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I just find it funny that cons on this thread go on and on about the "liberal media" but then complain when libs do the same about Fox.
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Old 02-04-07, 04:13 PM
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Well the difference is the conservatives will agree that Fox News presents a conservative viewpoint.. liberals won't admit that CBS, NBC, ABC, CNN, Headline News, PBS, New York Times, and almost every other publication or network offer a liberal viewpoint.
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Old 02-04-07, 04:19 PM
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eh...i'm conservative and in my opinion Fox News presents a stupid viewpoint.
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Old 02-04-07, 04:26 PM
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24 is hardly a NeoCon's wet dream. If anything, it demonstrates what will happen if we have most of our troops in other countries, fighting stupid "insurgent wars".
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Old 02-04-07, 05:25 PM
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My post from COM thread:

As for "24" as a neo-con wet dream. I had never heard this until I heard some woman on NPR refer to it that way a couple weeks ago. Funny, I never thought of the show as really having a political POV. Certainly Jack crosses the line of what I think is acceptable behavior, but in the context of the show, I'm usually rooting him on.

I think in many ways though, "24" is the opposite of a pro-neo con show -- especially this season. The people promoting security over civil rights are portrayed as bad guys. There is talk of pardoning a former terrorist (negotiating with a terrorist) in order to get help from him and that is somewhat portrayed as a positive move. There's the president's sister trying to protect the rights of innocent Muslims and she's portrayed as a positive character. If the show did have a political view, I don't see it being conservative... But honestly, I still think it's rather apolitical and all these things I mentioned are just plot devices to either further the story, add suspense, etc.
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Old 02-04-07, 05:42 PM
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I used to be a fan of 24 but it really degraded a lot in its later years.

I think 24 shows a bit of both sides, sometimes, the extremes of both sides. It is just mainly about some macho-know-it-all guy saving the day despite the bureaucrats and their red tape.

Only problem I have with 24 is when some cons point to the show as evidence of America's support for kidnapping and torture of suspected terrorists or supporters and denying them access to a lawyer.


MI-5 is a far superior show anyway.
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Old 02-04-07, 07:52 PM
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I've never seen the show.

Besides, my wet dreams usually take on a slightly different character.


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Old 02-05-07, 12:31 AM
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Originally Posted by Phod
Well the difference is the conservatives will agree that Fox News presents a conservative viewpoint.. liberals won't admit that CBS, NBC, ABC, CNN, Headline News, PBS, New York Times, and almost every other publication or network offer a liberal viewpoint.
FYI, just because something is not conservative doesn't mean it's liberal. Conservatives agree that Fox News is conservative because it is. Liberals DON'T agree that CBS, NBC, ABC, CNN, PBS, NPR, or NYT has a liberal bias because we don't see them flat out lying just to show a liberal viewpoint. Remember Fox News in Times Square with their ticker messages taunting protesters? Find me an example of CNN or NY Times doing something similar. Remember a few weeks ago when allegations came out of Barack Obama being a radical Muslim? Guess which news network kept raising the suggestion that Barack was a covert Muslim extremist and NEVER retracted? LINK Guess which news network corrected the allegation with actual FACTS? LINK
The fact that Fox News did this was not only biased, but quite frankly, morally bankrupt. You can't get much lower than suggesting, without a shred of proof that an American citizen is a possible terrorist and traitor.

Last edited by hahn; 02-05-07 at 12:36 AM.
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Old 02-05-07, 12:42 AM
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I do think FoxNews really does has a tendency to constantly cover inflammatory topics. For example, this mid-afternoon, while CNN is covering news on tornadoes in Florida and bombings in Iraq, FoxNews is interviewing someone about racist cartoons.
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Old 02-05-07, 08:54 AM
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My friend had a full season on DVD set and we watched it together one weekend. I didn't see what all the hype for the show is about. It's so unbelievable, I couldn't stand it. I didn't see any conservative or liberal leaning to the show though. The plot was silly.
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Old 02-05-07, 09:05 AM
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I see both sides represented on the show. The example of the presidents you give is extremely weak, though. It's a conservative's wet dream because so far the best President they've had was a strong black Democrat?

I do, however, see the potential for slipping into neo-con messages from time to time, since Joel Surnow is one of those hardcore neo-cons that apparently believes that all it requires to be a part of the eeeeevil liberal media is to say that you think Bush is doing something wrong.

I just wish Muslims and many liberals would stop their whining about how Muslims are being depicted in the show. There are some Muslims that want to destroy us. It's a fact. Deal with it. Be happy that they're portraying the rarer type of Muslim as well - the one that not only believes that these guys are wrong, but is actually trying to do something to stop them.
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Old 02-05-07, 04:20 PM
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Originally Posted by hahn
Liberals DON'T agree that CBS, NBC, ABC, CNN, PBS, NPR, or NYT has a liberal bias because we don't see them flat out lying just to show a liberal viewpoint.
Did I just wake up this morning in a parallel universe in which Dan Rather never vehemently defended the use of forged documents in the Bush Air National Guard story???
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Old 02-05-07, 04:34 PM
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Originally Posted by Shoveler
Did I just wake up this morning in a parallel universe in which Dan Rather never vehemently defended the use of forged documents in the Bush Air National Guard story???
From everything I heard, despite the documents being forged (which was a bad thing not to check the authenticity), the person that wrote the original documents said that despite these not being the originals, they said the same thing. Maybe I'm wrong, maybe that claim was disproven at a later date, I dunno.

Anyhow, are you honestly trying to say that this one incident defines all non-Fox news stations as liberally biased?

Last edited by MovieExchange; 02-05-07 at 04:37 PM.
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Old 02-05-07, 05:12 PM
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Originally Posted by MovieExchange
From everything I heard, despite the documents being forged (which was a bad thing not to check the authenticity), the person that wrote the original documents said that despite these not being the originals, they said the same thing. Maybe I'm wrong, maybe that claim was disproven at a later date, I dunno.

Anyhow, are you honestly trying to say that this one incident defines all non-Fox news stations as liberally biased?
Were you not paying attention when this story broke???

You say:
(which was a bad thing not to check the authenticity)
See, the thing is, they (CBS News) did check the authenticity of the forged documents. And they were told, by their own experts, that the authenticity was highly questionable and that they should not use the documents.

And no, I'm not by any means trying to suggest that one incident can be used to impugn all other media outlets. I'm merely countering the suggestion that liberals don't see CBS, NBC, ABC, CNN, PBS, NPR, or NYT as lying "just to show a liberal viewpoint". In order to disprove that statement, all that is needed is a single example, so I provided the easiest. There are others, but then we'd be arguing about the degree or extent to which they lie, not about whether they do or don't lie.
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Old 02-05-07, 06:20 PM
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Originally Posted by MovieExchange
From everything I heard, despite the documents being forged (which was a bad thing not to check the authenticity), the person that wrote the original documents said that despite these not being the originals, they said the same thing. Maybe I'm wrong, maybe that claim was disproven at a later date, I dunno.

Anyhow, are you honestly trying to say that this one incident defines all non-Fox news stations as liberally biased?
That would be a hell of a story, because at the time CBS ran the story, the person who "wrote the memo" was conveniently dead and unavailable for comment.

Then there was the time The Boston Globe (and later the NYT, IIRC) ran the picture reportedly of a Marine raping an Iraqi woman. The glaring inconsistency was that the "Marine" was wearing Army jungle camo. It was later found that the picture was from a porn site .
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Old 02-05-07, 06:24 PM
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Originally Posted by Shoveler
Were you not paying attention when this story broke???
As I said, I could be wrong. I find it rather telling that you come up with a snide remark like that instead of telling me why I'm wrong, though.


As for the bias issue, for every Rather-gate issue you bring up, I can bring up 10, 20 maybe a hundred issues of the so-called liberal media parroting off the Bush Administation's propaganda or allowing them to spread misinformation without the "journalist" or someone with an opposing viewpoint to expose said misinformation. I'm not going to claim that the so-called "liberal media" has never put forth something incorrect that benefits a Democrat.... simply that they are not lock-step with the Democratic party in the way that conservatives want you to think.

Fox, on the other hand, is an arm of the Republican party. It was the efforts of Newt Gingrich and his Republican congress that paved the way for the loosening of the laws that at the time prevented foreign-born people like Murdoch from owning multiple media outlets, and Murdoch has never forgotten the debt that he owes them.


Originally Posted by crazyronin
That would be a hell of a story, because at the time CBS ran the story, the person who "wrote the memo" was conveniently dead and unavailable for comment.
I stand corrected then. Perhaps they were referring to the person that typed up the papers? A secretary? The only definite things I remember was the claim that someone who was there at the time and saw the originals verified the truth, and that it was a lady. I didn't follow the report closely, so for all I know the claim could have been proven wrong.

However, we are straying far outside the topic of the thread now, wouldn't you agree?

EDIT: Or maybe not. I thought that this was just about the politics of 24 and the people writing it, but if it's about the entire media and claims of bias...

Last edited by MovieExchange; 02-05-07 at 06:30 PM.
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