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Court: Execute Saddam within 30 days -- Update: He's dead

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Court: Execute Saddam within 30 days -- Update: He's dead

Old 12-26-06, 02:37 PM
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Court: Execute Saddam within 30 days -- Update: He's dead

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20061226/...dam_s_sentence

Court: Execute Saddam within 30 days

BAGHDAD, Iraq -

Iraq's highest appeals court on Tuesday upheld Saddam Hussein's death sentence and said he must be hanged within 30 days for the killing of 148 Shiites in the central city of Dujail.

The sentence "must be implemented within 30 days," chief judge Aref Shahin said. "From tomorrow, any day could be the day of implementation."

On Nov. 5, an Iraqi court sentenced Saddam to the gallows for ordering the 1982 killings following an attempt on his life.

Under Iraqi law, the appeals court decision must be ratified by President Jalal Talabani and Iraq's two vice presidents. Talabani opposes the death penalty but has in the past deputized a vice president to sign an execution order on his behalf a substitute that was legally accepted.

Raed Juhi, a spokesman for the High Tribunal court that convicted Saddam, said the judicial system would ensure that Saddam is executed even if Talabani and the two vice presidents do not ratify the decision.

"We'll implement the verdict by the power of the law," Juhi said. He did not elaborate.

The appeals court also upheld death sentences for Barzan Ibrahim, Saddam's half brother and intelligence chief during the Dujail killings, and Awad Hamed al-Bandar, head of Iraq's Revolutionary Court, which issued the death sentences against the Dujail residents.

The appeals court concluded the sentence of life imprisonment given to former vice president Taha Yassin Ramadan was too lenient and returned his file to the High Tribunal. Ramadan was convicted of premeditated murder in the Dujail case.

"We demand that he be sentenced to death," said Shahin, the appeals judge.

At his trial, Saddam argued that the Dujail residents who were killed had been convicted in a legitimate Iraqi court for trying to assassinate him in 1982.

The televised trial was watched throughout Iraq and the Middle East as much for theater as for substance. Saddam was ejected from the courtroom repeatedly for political harangues, and his half brother once showed up in long underwear and sat with his back to the judges.

The nine-month trial inflamed Iraq's political divide, however, and three defense lawyers and a witness were murdered during the course of its 39 sessions.

Saddam is in the midst of a second trial charging him with genocide and other crimes during a 1987-88 military crackdown on Kurds in northern Iraq. An estimated 180,000 Kurds died during the operation.

Saddam was found hiding with an unfired pistol in a hole in the ground near his home village north of Baghdad in December 2003, eight months after he fled the capital ahead of advancing American troops.
Old 12-26-06, 03:55 PM
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Swift justice.
Old 12-26-06, 04:21 PM
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Believe it when it is done.
Old 12-26-06, 05:57 PM
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That's about 29 days too many.
Old 12-26-06, 10:53 PM
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Woo-hoo! Only 30 days until a pointless execution that will exacerbate an already volatile situation and further enflame Sunni-Shiite relations in Iraq! All right! High fives all around!
Old 12-26-06, 11:46 PM
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Originally Posted by NCMojo
Woo-hoo! Only 30 days until a pointless execution that will exacerbate an already volatile situation and further enflame Sunni-Shiite relations in Iraq! All right! High fives all around!
MMM...pointless executions.
Old 12-26-06, 11:54 PM
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Originally Posted by NCMojo
Woo-hoo! Only 30 days until a pointless execution that will exacerbate an already volatile situation and further enflame Sunni-Shiite relations in Iraq! All right! High fives all around!
Not pointless to the families of the innocent people he had killed.
Old 12-27-06, 12:07 AM
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For justice to be served a fair and impartial trial is required. What Saddam got was a Stalin-style show-trial whose verdict and sentance were never in question. While it's likely that Hussein would have been found guilty in an international court, we'll probably never know for certain. Still, this is more "justice" than the average U.S. detainee gets.
Old 12-27-06, 12:19 AM
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It was only a show trial because Saddam made it a show trial. The verdict was never in question because Saddam admitted he gave the order to bomb the orchards, that lead to the death of 148 Shiite's. So it really doesn't matter where it had taken place or if it was a show trial or not - he's guilty and will now pay the ultimate price.
Old 12-27-06, 12:32 AM
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Originally Posted by General Zod
It was only a show trial because Saddam made it a show trial. The verdict was never in question because Saddam admitted he gave the order to bomb the orchards, that lead to the death of 148 Shiite's. So it really doesn't matter where it had taken place or if it was a show trial or not - he's guilty and will now pay the ultimate price.
He won't just pay the ultimate price, he'll also be permanently rehabilitated.
Old 12-27-06, 12:41 AM
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Originally Posted by General Zod
Not pointless to the families of the innocent people he had killed.
Not to turn this into a death penalty debate thread, but those innocent victims will still be dead thirty days from now. I understand the desire to execute him, and if anyone deserves the death penalty, it's certainly Hussein, but I think that at the end of the day, his execution is not going to make things better in Iraq and may (but probably won't) make things worse.
Old 12-27-06, 12:43 AM
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Justice shouldn't depend on how the population will react.
Old 12-27-06, 02:47 AM
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Like the population will get any more violent because of Saddam's death. Well, ok, maybe for a few days.

We should've killed the guy when we first found him. It would have made him less an icon. Now, we've officially made him a martyr by putting him through a court system, extending his life by 3 years, and then officially killing him.

And I agree with kvrdave. I'll believe it when I see it.
Old 12-27-06, 03:44 AM
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Originally Posted by DVD Polizei
Like the population will get any more violent because of Saddam's death. Well, ok, maybe for a few days.

We should've killed the guy when we first found him. It would have made him less an icon. Now, we've officially made him a martyr by putting him through a court system, extending his life by 3 years, and then officially killing him.

And I agree with kvrdave. I'll believe it when I see it.
He would have been a martyr if we had killed him on sight. He would have died "in the heat of the battle."

Now he has been humiliated and tried, convicted and sentenced to be executed by his own people. There's no glory in that.
Old 12-27-06, 07:54 AM
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There are a number of analysts in this country who believe the U. S. (after the failure of 'democracy' in Iraq) will be looking for an Iraqi strongman who is somewhat ruthless - ruthless enough to restore a modicum of stability in the country.

Why not bring back Saddam?
Old 12-27-06, 09:48 AM
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Originally Posted by JasonF
but I think that at the end of the day, his execution is not going to make things better in Iraq and may (but probably won't) make things worse.
It may not make things better. I just have trouble believing there is a huge untapped pool of worseness in Iraq just waiting to be tapped. I think the militants are bringing all the worseness they are capable of mustering. But I also believe killing as many as possible will reduce their capability over time.
Old 12-27-06, 10:08 AM
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Originally Posted by OldDude
It may not make things better. I just have trouble believing there is a huge untapped pool of worseness in Iraq just waiting to be tapped. I think the militants are bringing all the worseness they are capable of mustering. But I also believe killing as many as possible will reduce their capability over time.
The danger is that there are some Sunnis who are currently law-abiding but are at the margin of becoming militant, that they will perceive this as Shi'ite retribution against a Sunni leader, and this will push them over the edge into militancy. I think the "elasticity of militancy," as it were, is relatively low, though, so my guess is that relatively few people will be pushed into militancy by this incident.

But things can always be worse than they are.
Old 12-27-06, 10:43 AM
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Originally Posted by Goldblum
He would have been a martyr if we had killed him on sight. He would have died "in the heat of the battle."

Now he has been humiliated and tried, convicted and sentenced to be executed by his own people. There's no glory in that.
I disagree. I think if he goes "nobly" to the gallows, the Sunnis will truly adopt him as a martyr to the cause. Whereas if he was just stuck in a rotten jail some place, not too dissimilar to the spider hole where we found him, his daily humiliation would be a dissuation.

And as JasonF wisely pointed out... things can always get worse.
Old 12-27-06, 10:49 AM
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Originally Posted by NCMojo
I disagree. I think if he goes "nobly" to the gallows, the Sunnis will truly adopt him as a martyr to the cause. Whereas if he was just stuck in a rotten jail some place, not too dissimilar to the spider hole where we found him, his daily humiliation would be a dissuation.

And as JasonF wisely pointed out... things can always get worse.
I disagree with that. "Nobly" would be for him to choose his own time and place to die--for him to go down fighting. Neither is the case here.
Old 12-27-06, 11:25 AM
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Originally Posted by Goldblum
I disagree with that. "Nobly" would be for him to choose his own time and place to die--for him to go down fighting. Neither is the case here.
What? You disagree with me? I'm shocked -- shocked!

If we're talking about degrees of humiliation -- this at least gives Saddam the chance to walk with his chin up to the gallows and defiantly spit in the eye of the new Iraqi government one last time. Better would be to just lock him up in a cell somewhere in a foreign land like Kuwait and let history forget about him.

(One exception -- if he doesn't go nobly to the gallows, and instead winds up crying and begging for mercy. That would be nice. Ain't gonna happen, but it would at least take some of the fire from their bellies.)
Old 12-27-06, 12:26 PM
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Originally Posted by Goldblum
I disagree with that. "Nobly" would be for him to choose his own time and place to die--for him to go down fighting. Neither is the case here.
Tell it to Sydney Carton.
Old 12-27-06, 12:50 PM
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Originally Posted by JasonF
Tell it to Sydney Carton.
I usually don't tell things to characters from novels, abeit as classic as the books may be.
Old 12-27-06, 12:53 PM
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Originally Posted by JasonF
The danger is that there are some Sunnis who are currently law-abiding but are at the margin of becoming militant, that they will perceive this as Shi'ite retribution against a Sunni leader, and this will push them over the edge into militancy. I think the "elasticity of militancy," as it were, is relatively low, though, so my guess is that relatively few people will be pushed into militancy by this incident.

But things can always be worse than they are.
Better we push them over the edge and kill them while we are still there, than they become strongmen taking over the country after we leave.

We need to lure as many marginal militants into battle as possible.

(I recognize this may be a substantial difference in viewpoint.)
Old 12-27-06, 01:37 PM
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During the trial many family members mentioned that they were afraid Saddam would some day get back into power and seek revenge upon them. One thing that his death would do is give them peace of mind - and that's something these people haven't had for a very long time.
Old 12-27-06, 02:44 PM
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Someone better tell the family members that Saddam is not the only ruthless man who would do the Shi'ites harm.

Saddam has already noted he is willing to be a "sacrifice" for the cause, and he knew full well he was going to die years ago. Hell, back in August 2005, he published a letter which said as much:

"My soul and my existence is to be sacrificed for our precious Palestine and our beloved, patient and suffering Iraq..."

So, his execution now is not demeaning to him in any way. It merely seals his own destiny as a martyr.

What would have been ideal, is showing his bullet-riddled corpse next to his even more evil sons. How much of martyrs were his sons remembered? Not much I can tell you.

The US should have humiliated his body, not captured him alive and fed him in a prison for 3 years.

And another thing the US better watch out for, is when Saddam is killed, there will be little more excuses. You even mentioned an example for me. Many Iraqis think Saddam is still controlling the insurgency and that is why the US is failing. They think once Saddam is dead, they will be fine. Well, reality is going to hit them eventually after Saddam is dead and buried, and still we will have a strong insurgency, hell-bent on killing. With Saddam being dead, portions of the Iraqi people will turn to the US and ask why that Saddam is dead, the carnage continues. It's a naive situation, but still holds true for many Iraqis. This is why we should have killed Saddam immediately.

Last edited by DVD Polizei; 12-27-06 at 02:49 PM.

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