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Stop paying taxes

Old 03-28-06, 07:43 AM
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Stop paying taxes

Interesting idea.
Want Tax Reform? Stop Paying Taxes

BEGIN TRANSCRIPT



RUSH: Here's my idea. In addition to illegal immigration, many of us in this country are fed up with the federal tax system. We're just fed up with it. But over the years we've been intimidated into obeying. We call on our patriotism tendencies and our desires to do the right thing and so forth, but admit it: We're also scared to death that that's the one thing the federal government will not stop looking for until they find it, and that's every tax cheat in the country. But yet we need reform of this system. We need to reform it.

I mean, the tax code is punitive. Fewer and fewer people are paying federal income taxes, so the opportunity to reform the program is soon to vanish because once the minority is the one paying taxes and the majority of people are not paying federal income taxes, you have no hope for reform. So how do we do it? Well, we've tried any number of ways. We've proposed legislation. We have had books written. We have had speeches given. We have had pamphlets printed. Nothing works, and the reason is that members of Congress are just not going to give up the single greatest power they have, and that's social architecture that they can engage in with the tax code.

So, since Senator Specter and since Senator McCain and all the supporters of this amnesty program say, "Well, 12 million, 11 million? We can't do anything about it! We've got to come up with some way to deal with them already here because we can't deport them." Fine, how about if I we -- and I'm speaking hypothetically, just toying with this idea -- but how about if I, El Rushbo, were to write a tax book, and the idea I have is that we just stop paying taxes. Now, just bear with me on this. Just stop paying 'em. What if 40 or 50 million of us just refused to pay taxes. What are they going to do? (interruption) Well, Mr. Snerdley is yelling that they will get me. I will sacrifice myself for the good of the cause. But if 40 or 50 million -- it's hypothetical -- refuse to pay taxes, what are they going to do? They don't have that many IRS agents; they don't have that much jail space. They might actually build jails for this, though (laughing) and call it the Rush Limbaugh Correctional Facility. They might actually do it. But then what would have to happen because the government obviously needs revenue, we need for our government to perform various basic functions. But it could be a way to change the tax code, because if 40 or 50 million people just said, "The hell with it and dropped out," they'd have to come up with an alternative way of raising the money, and that's how we would get reform. That's how we would get the FairTax, the flat tax, a national sales tax, or whatever it is, one that we couldn't avoid paying because it would arrive every time we spent money.

Now, you say, "Well, Rush, how do you we avoid paying when taxes are withheld?" I understand. I understand that. There are ways around this, but that burden would fall on the shoulders of those who are self-employed and who do not have taxes withheld. It probably would lead to changing a law in five seconds that would require everybody have taxes withheld. (laughing) But my point is if the number of illegals is simply too large to deal with, the number of criminals is simply too large to deal with, and you're not going to have any enforcement mechanism, then all of this is just a bunch of jabberwocky about immigration. It's just designed to placate you and pander to you to make you think that they reeeeeally mean it this time.

END TRANSCRIPT
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Old 03-28-06, 07:48 AM
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Consider the source.
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Old 03-28-06, 07:56 AM
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I see Rush is troubled by the Republican's dueling perspectives on immigration.
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Old 03-28-06, 07:57 AM
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Boy, he's really going off the deep end, isn't he? This sounds like one of those tin-foil hat web pages that's all one long sentence where they rant about how taxes are really voluntary and you can call the IRS and get off the tax rolls with a secret form, etc.

BTW, my only problem with the tax system is that, with loopholes, I'm probably paying more federal taxes than Rush is.
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Old 03-28-06, 07:58 AM
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He's saying if the excuse against curbing illegal immigration is "the problem is too big to take care of" than give them a big problem like not getting revenue and see if they don't work to fix THAT.

I think it's genius actually.
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Old 03-28-06, 08:02 AM
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Originally Posted by mosquitobite
He's saying if the excuse against curbing illegal immigration is "the problem is too big to take care of" than give them a big problem like not getting revenue and see if they don't work to fix THAT.

I think it's genius actually.
Its nonsense. The problem is fixable if they wanted to fix it. Enforce the laws on the books. Require that an employee has the proper documentation. Stop blaming everyone and focus on business.

My wife's business had a big problem will illegals and forged documents and now they've changed and strictly screen anyone they employ.
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Old 03-28-06, 08:12 AM
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The problem is fixable if they wanted to fix it.
That's what Rush is saying as well.
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Old 03-28-06, 08:30 AM
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Originally Posted by mosquitobite
He's saying if the excuse against curbing illegal immigration is "the problem is too big to take care of" than give them a big problem like not getting revenue and see if they don't work to fix THAT.

I think it's genius actually.
Let us know how that goes for you. Good luck! (Hey, do you think Rush'll put his money where his mouth is?)
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Old 03-28-06, 08:34 AM
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Originally Posted by Rightwing "infotainment" shill
<b>Fewer and fewer people are paying federal income taxes</b>, so the opportunity to reform the program is soon to vanish because once the minority is the one paying taxes and the majority of people are not paying federal income taxes, you have no hope for reform.
I'd like a source for this.
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Old 03-28-06, 10:12 AM
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For a while in 1992 I worked for a stockbroker who was also a fundamentalist Christian. I resigned when he started getting into the tax protest movement, basically as someone above noted -- trumpeting that line about how taxes were voluntary and you could write the IRS demanding a refund of all the taxes you'd ever paid because the IRS was never made an official part of the U.S. Government. I figured the FBI'd be busting down his doors anytime and I didn't want them finding this girl at the front desk.

Sure enough, the IRS and FBI investigated him. I have no idea what happened to him.
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Old 03-28-06, 10:14 AM
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Originally Posted by wendersfan
I'd like a source for this.
Good luck.
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Old 03-28-06, 10:23 AM
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Originally Posted by CRM114
Good luck.
Google "Lucky Duckies" and a few should pop up.
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Old 03-28-06, 10:28 AM
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Originally Posted by Geofferson
Google "Lucky Duckies" and a few should pop up.


Strangely (ironically?) enough, what Mr. Limbaugh is railing against seems to come as a result of the Bush tax cuts, whilst advocates for the poor might seem to think this was a bad thing.
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Old 03-28-06, 10:35 AM
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lucky_duckies

Fewer Americans are paying federal income tax

In recent years, the number and percentage of Americans who pay no federal income tax has increased. According to The Tax Foundation:

Forty-four million tax returns filed in 2005 will rightly demand the return of every dollar or more that is being withheld from their paychecks during 2004, according to the Tax Foundation.… In 2000, nearly 30 million people had no income tax liability; the 2004 number represents a 50 percent increase.… “Broadly speaking, the 44 million zero-tax filers are low-income, young, female-headed households, part-time workers and beneficiaries of the $1,000 per-child tax credit,” said Tax Foundation economist J. Scott Moody.
And Moody said that in addition to the 44 million who will have no income tax liability, there are another 14 million who will earn income, but will not earn enough to pay taxes, bringing the total number of Americans not paying taxes to 58 million, and Moody stresses that this is still an underestimate. He said the returns can represent households, which ups the actual number of Americans not paying taxes. [6]
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Old 03-28-06, 10:37 AM
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Originally Posted by wendersfan
Strangely (ironically?) enough, what Mr. Limbaugh is railing against seems to come as a result of the Bush tax cuts
But his tax cut only impacted the top 1% I tell you!
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Old 03-28-06, 10:39 AM
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Originally Posted by Geofferson
I think the problem with Rush's argument, even with the caveat that fewer Americans seem to be paying taxes, is that those who don't pay taxes also don't vote. I would imagine that there is almost a direct, linear relationship between the amount of taxes one pays and one's likelyhood to vote. I'd try to look up numbers for that, but I'm currently hip-deep in the Stolper-Samuelson Theorem...
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Old 03-28-06, 11:00 AM
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Originally Posted by mosquitobite
He's saying if the excuse against curbing illegal immigration is "the problem is too big to take care of" than give them a big problem like not getting revenue and see if they don't work to fix THAT.

I think it's genius actually.
It's pathetic. Instead of Rush addressing the issue of illegal immigration head on and going against the people he supports, he takes some nonsensical twist that is not only irrelevant to the issue at hand, but completely unworkable.

So instead of taking on his Republican cronies, Rush would rather deflect to the old tried and true "tax issue" instead.

"Deflection" is not genius... it's cowardice.
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Old 03-28-06, 11:49 AM
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If this gets the Republicans at all fired up about fixing the borders, I'm happy (Lord knows the Dems aren't going to do squat about it). Otherwise it's just another Rush rant.
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Old 03-28-06, 12:04 PM
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Originally Posted by Geofferson
But his tax cut only impacted the top 1% I tell you!
It affected me.
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Old 03-28-06, 12:07 PM
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The only people I know who don't pay a lot of taxes are the self-employed. The wonders of large capital depreciation and a good accountant.
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Old 03-28-06, 12:13 PM
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Originally Posted by wendersfan
It affected me.
Simply because you & I benefitted from it, doesn't mean it was the right thing to do for the country.

How many other times in our history have we cut taxes with the country at war?
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Old 03-28-06, 12:17 PM
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in addition to the 44 million who will have no income tax liability, there are another 14 million who will earn income, but will not earn enough to pay taxes
what's the difference?
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Old 03-28-06, 01:38 PM
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Brilliant. He's making fun of the RINO twit that heads the Judicial committee and the RINO media whore.
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Old 03-28-06, 03:52 PM
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Originally Posted by wendersfan
I think the problem with Rush's argument, even with the caveat that fewer Americans seem to be paying taxes, is that those who don't pay taxes also don't vote. I would imagine that there is almost a direct, linear relationship between the amount of taxes one pays and one's likelyhood to vote. I'd try to look up numbers for that, but I'm currently hip-deep in the Stolper-Samuelson Theorem...
OK, I ran some numbers. I couldn't quickly find any data for the amount of taxes paid, but I ran some regression models with income and level of education (as a control variable):

<strong><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif">Probit estimations of voting likelyhood, 2000 presidential election</font></strong><br><table width="600" border="0" cellpadding="5" cellspacing="0"> <tr> <td colspan="6"><hr> <hr></td> </tr> <tr> <td bordercolor="#000000"><font size="-1" face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"><strong>Explanatory variable</strong></font></td> <td bordercolor="#000000"> <div align="center"><font size="-1" face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"><strong>Model 1</strong></font></div></td> <td bordercolor="#000000"> <div align="center"><font size="-1" face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"><strong>Model 2</strong></font></div></td> <td bordercolor="#000000"> <div align="center"><font size="-1" face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"><strong>Model 3</strong></font></div></td> <td bordercolor="#000000"> <div align="center"><font size="-1" face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"><strong>Model 4</strong></font></div></td> <td bordercolor="#000000"> <div align="center"><font size="-1" face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"><strong>Model 5</strong></font></div></td> </tr> <tr> <td height="5" colspan="6"><hr></td> </tr> <tr> <td valign="top"><font size="-1" face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif">Constant</font></td> <td><div align="center"><font size="-1" face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif">-3.563<br> (0.043) </font></div></td> <td><div align="center"><font size="-1" face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif">-.3463<br> (0.037)</font></div></td> <td><div align="center"><font size="-1" face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif">-3.672<br> (0.034) </font></div></td> <td><div align="center"><font size="-1" face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif">-3.772<br> (0.049) </font></div></td> <td><div align="center"><font size="-1" face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif">-3.759<br> (0.052) </font></div></td> </tr> <tr> <td valign="top"><em><font size="-1" face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif">Total family income</font></em></td> <td><div align="center"><font size="-1" face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif">0.022<br> (0.004)</font></div></td> <td><div align="center"><font size="-1"><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"></font></font></div></td> <td><div align="center"><font size="-1"><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"></font></font></div></td> <td> <p align="center"><font size="-1" face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif">0.014<br> (0.004)</font></p></td> <td><p align="center"><font size="-1"><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"></font></font></p></td> </tr> <tr> <td valign="top"><em><font size="-1" face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif">Respondent's Income</font></em></td> <td><div align="center"><font size="-1"><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"></font></font></div></td> <td><div align="center"><font size="-1" face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif">0.014<br> (0.003)</font></div></td> <td><div align="center"><font size="-1"><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"></font></font></div></td> <td><div align="center"><font size="-1"><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"></font></font></div></td> <td><div align="center"><font size="-1" face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif">0.009<br> (0.003)</font></div></td> </tr> <tr> <td valign="top"><em><font size="-1" face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif">Highest year of school completed</font></em></td> <td><div align="center"><font size="-1"><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"></font></font></div></td> <td><div align="center"><font size="-1"><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"></font></font></div></td> <td> <p align="center"><font size="-1" face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif">0.026<br> (0.002)</font></p></td> <td> <p align="center"><font size="-1" face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif">0.022<br> (0.002)</font></p></td> <td> <p align="center"><font size="-1" face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif">0.026<br> (0.003)</font></p></td> </tr> <tr> <td valign="top"><font size="-1" face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif">n. of observations</font></td> <td><div align="center"><font size="-1" face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif">2486</font></div></td> <td><div align="center"><font size="-1" face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif">1670</font></div></td> <td><div align="center"><font size="-1" face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif">2576</font></div></td> <td><div align="center"><font size="-1" face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif">2484</font></div></td> <td><div align="center"><font size="-1" face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif">1669</font></div></td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="6"><hr></td> </tr></table><em><font size="-3" face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif">Standard error in parentheses. All estimates were significant
at the .01 level.<br>Data Source: 2004 General Social Survey</font></em>




Now the question is, do (m)any of you understand the above table?

Last edited by wendersfan; 03-29-06 at 07:46 AM.
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Old 03-28-06, 05:39 PM
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Awesome. Another incomprehensible dataset from wendersdan!
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