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Left-wing Americans look to emigrate

Old 11-04-04, 11:25 AM
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Left-wing Americans look to emigrate

"A libertarian from Ohio" wants to emigrate to a country where the elite have openly boasted that the rights of the individual are stomped on in favor of the collective good? Come again?

Wait until they find out how modest are the economic opportunities that await them in the deliberately overpopulated centers of their northern neighbor. And wait until they find that Canadians are brimming with tolerance ... only for people just like themselves.

The following appears courtesy of The Globe and Mail.
===========
Disaffected Americans look north to 'better government'

By MARINA JIMÉNEZ
With a report from Jeff Gray
Thursday, November 4, 2004 - Page A4

Some Americans are willing to do anything to avoid another four years of George W. Bush -- even move to Canada.

Joe Auerbach is so disappointed with Mr. Bush's election victory that he is planning to give up a job as a systems analyst and leave his comfortable life in Columbus, Ohio, to move to a country with "a better government and more reasonable people."

"Today, once the Bush victory was clear, my e-mail was burning up with people vowing to leave the U.S. for Canada," said Mr. Auerbach, 27.

"I don't want to be living in the U.S. when China decides we are a threat and when George Bush starts drafting computer engineers into the army. I'm morally opposed to the Bush administration."

He and several other disenchanted Americans are contacting immigration lawyers north of the border to see whether they qualify to immigrate to Canada. It is too soon to say whether this is political hot air or the start of a new trend in immigration.

But among some middle-class, liberal Americans, there is a growing sense of political disengagement as they realize the majority of their fellow citizens support the conservative agenda of Mr. Bush, who received 51 per cent of the popular vote, winning more votes than any other president in U.S. history.

"Mr. Auerbach is one of many middle-class Americans who have a philosophical difference with the direction the U.S. is taking," said Sergio Karas, a Toronto immigration lawyer. "I have received several inquiries from people like him who want to move here."

Jacqueline Bart, a Toronto immigration lawyer, said she recently attended a conference in New York and more than a dozen U.S. lawyers asked her about sending their children to study in Canada. "There is a sense of hesitation about the direction Bush is taking the country in," she said.

Clyde Williamson, a libertarian from Ohio, feels the Bush administration is too conservative on social-justice issues such as gay rights, abortion and the medicinal use of marijuana. He is also opposed to the U.S.-led war in Iraq.

"I don't think the U.S. is going to turn into Nazi Germany or anything. But it is going to become a much more conservative country," said the 29-year-old computer-security engineer.

Others feel Mr. Bush's unilateralist foreign policy is more troubling even than his social conservatism. A former U.S. diplomat who has already applied for permanent-resident status said yesterday that Mr. Bush's election victory has accelerated his determination to relocate permanently to Vancouver.

"I'm watching this administration preside over the virtual destruction of relations with the Muslim world -- and, I fear, end up strengthening the forces of terrorism as a result," he said.

"The values of Canada are what I thought the values of the U.S. used to be: personal freedoms, a sense of need for a global community and consensus. The U.S. is losing its way."

A Toronto lawyer representing three U.S. soldiers who have fled to Canada to avoid fighting in Iraq said Mr. Bush's re-election means more U.S. deserters are likely to seek refugee status north of the border.

Jeffry House, a Vietnam-era draft-dodger who is steering the refugee claims of the three young men, says he has received about 80 e-mails from other U.S. soldiers stationed around the world, inquiring about escaping to Canada to avoid serving in Iraq. At least five U.S. soldiers are believed to have fled to Canada.

Maria Iadinardi, spokeswoman for Citizenship and Immigration Canada, said it is too soon to say whether there has been a spike in the number of Americans being granted permanent residency, noting the number has fluctuated in recent years from a low of 4,437 in 1998 to a high of 5,604 in 2001.

So far this year, 5,353 Americans have become permanent residents.


Last edited by DivxGuy; 11-04-04 at 11:29 AM.
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Old 11-04-04, 11:36 AM
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An article I posted yesterday states it's going to be about a year-long wait for anybody who wants to emigrate to Canada.
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Old 11-04-04, 11:43 AM
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He doesn't want to live in the US when China sees us as a threat?

Better move a little bit farther away than just to the fucking north of us, brianiac.
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Old 11-04-04, 11:49 AM
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This makes me mad:

"Jeffry House, a Vietnam-era draft-dodger who is steering the refugee claims of the three young men, says he has received about 80 e-mails from other U.S. soldiers stationed around the world, inquiring about escaping to Canada to avoid serving in Iraq. At least five U.S. soldiers are believed to have fled to Canada."

So you sign up, obtain the benefits [salary, skills, training, education, healthcare, breast implants, etc], then when you're asked to DO YOUR JOB, run away and flee to another country? What the hell did you think the military was *for*?
That's like a cop saying 'Hell no, I'm not going into that bank robbery."
Dodging a draft, while I don't agree with it, I can understand the thinking. But these guys, this is the ultimate in entitlement without responsibility.

I'll only be this blunt once: Everyone who says "I'm leaving the country, now that Bush won!", to you I say, "Go on, get the f*** out." Stand up for your beliefs and what you say for once. And I hope that should you do that [though you won't, a lot of talk and no action], we close the borders and cancel your citizenship so you can't just jaunt back over here when we're playing a game you like.
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Old 11-04-04, 11:52 AM
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Some Americans are willing to do anything to avoid another four years of George W. Bush -- even move to Canada.
Wait, EVEN move to Canada? Now that's just insulting. Time to close the borders.
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Old 11-04-04, 11:56 AM
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Originally posted by eXcentris
Wait, EVEN move to Canada? Now that's just insulting. Time to close the borders.
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Old 11-04-04, 11:59 AM
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Originally posted by eXcentris
Wait, EVEN move to Canada? Now that's just insulting. Time to close the borders.
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Old 11-04-04, 12:01 PM
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Liberals are so funny about this type of thing. When was the last time a conservative (well known) threatened to move because of an election?
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Old 11-04-04, 12:03 PM
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Originally posted by kvrdave
Liberals are so funny about this type of thing. When was the last time a conservative (well known) threatened to move because of an election?
You know after reading DU, these stories, and the posts of some of the new active posters in this place - I'm with kvrdave.

I want to change my vote. It's been a day and a half and the bitching, whining, and moaning is out of hand. Four more years of this? yeesh.
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Old 11-04-04, 12:47 PM
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Fine with me. I'd rather have these people oppose Bush and leave rather than Bush attempting to 'unite' all of us. Why should he abandon the conservative positions he holds that elected him? Makes no sense.
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Old 11-04-04, 12:50 PM
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Yep. Especially since 'uniting' to some of these people can only be translated as 'do whatever we want.'
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Old 11-04-04, 04:37 PM
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I agree. I don't like Bush, nor do I support him, but moving to another country is just asinine. The only thing it says to me is that they don't care enough about the country to stay and fight for what they believe... so good riddance.
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Old 11-04-04, 04:51 PM
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Soon to appear at a favorite left-leaning web site...

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Old 11-04-04, 04:51 PM
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Originally posted by dtcarson
This makes me mad:

"Jeffry House, a Vietnam-era draft-dodger who is steering the refugee claims of the three young men, says he has received about 80 e-mails from other U.S. soldiers stationed around the world, inquiring about escaping to Canada to avoid serving in Iraq. At least five U.S. soldiers are believed to have fled to Canada."

So you sign up, obtain the benefits [salary, skills, training, education, healthcare, breast implants, etc], then when you're asked to DO YOUR JOB, run away and flee to another country? What the hell did you think the military was *for*?
That's like a cop saying 'Hell no, I'm not going into that bank robbery."
Dodging a draft, while I don't agree with it, I can understand the thinking. But these guys, this is the ultimate in entitlement without responsibility.

I'll only be this blunt once: Everyone who says "I'm leaving the country, now that Bush won!", to you I say, "Go on, get the f*** out." Stand up for your beliefs and what you say for once. And I hope that should you do that [though you won't, a lot of talk and no action], we close the borders and cancel your citizenship so you can't just jaunt back over here when we're playing a game you like.
Pisses me off too. They join thinking they will get their college paid for or whatever assuming they will not have to see action. Well, tough shit. You join the military and there is a war, you have to go. You should have thought about that before you signed on. And while it sucks when soldiers are dying, I get sick and tired of hearing parents bitch about Bush killing their sons and daughters. They made their decision to join the military, so live with it.
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Old 11-04-04, 04:57 PM
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Originally posted by dtcarson
This makes me mad:

"Jeffry House, a Vietnam-era draft-dodger who is steering the refugee claims of the three young men, says he has received about 80 e-mails from other U.S. soldiers stationed around the world, inquiring about escaping to Canada to avoid serving in Iraq. At least five U.S. soldiers are believed to have fled to Canada."

So you sign up, obtain the benefits [salary, skills, training, education, healthcare, breast implants, etc], then when you're asked to DO YOUR JOB, run away and flee to another country? What the hell did you think the military was *for*?
That's like a cop saying 'Hell no, I'm not going into that bank robbery."
Dodging a draft, while I don't agree with it, I can understand the thinking. But these guys, this is the ultimate in entitlement without responsibility.
In defense of these soldiers, I think they signed up with the understanding that they might be called upon to take up arms nad lay down their lives in defense of the Republic. If you believe the war in Iraq is an imperialist expedition rather than an action in defense of the Republic, then there's a certian logic to saying "I joined the military, and I'll do the military's job when I'm asked to do so, but what the President has sent me to do is not a proper use of the military."

Understand, I disagree with this point of view -- it's the job of the President and the Congress to determine what the military's job is, and it's clear that they think the war in Iraq is an appropriate job for our military. Moreover, the majority of the electorate seems to agree. So if you ask me, these soldiers should put aside their policy disagreements with the current administration and do their jobs. But I don't think their position is quite as unreasonable as you portray it.
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Old 11-05-04, 12:50 AM
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Originally posted by Chew
An article I posted yesterday states it's going to be about a year-long wait for anybody who wants to emigrate to Canada.
They should make it a four-year wait.
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Old 11-05-04, 01:24 AM
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This is the greatest thing I've heard in a long time. You know what all this means???

Less liberals in the US to vote for Hillary in '08. Let's make her defeat that much more resounding!
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Old 11-05-04, 01:30 AM
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Originally posted by darkflounder

Less liberals in the US to vote for Hillary in '08. Let's make her defeat that much more resounding!
Can you name one that supports her bid for the presidency?
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Old 11-05-04, 01:34 AM
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Originally posted by JasonF
In defense of these soldiers, I think they signed up with the understanding that they might be called upon to take up arms nad lay down their lives in defense of the Republic.
Then they volunteered before 1990. Because they saw the Gulf War, they saw Somalia, etc. as well. If anyone signs up becuase they believe they will only be used if there is a Chinese ship off the California coast, they will be the cooks anyway.
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Old 11-05-04, 01:52 AM
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As a Canadian... speaking for Canadians... we will take Celine Dion back as long as we don't have to take your very non-deserving "disaffected"...

I think it is time for Canada to take a stance... WE DON'T WANT YOU...
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Old 11-05-04, 02:20 AM
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I will go for absolutely anything that ends up with Canada taking Celine Dion back.
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Old 11-05-04, 02:30 AM
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Originally posted by kvrdave
I will go for absolutely anything that ends up with Canada taking Celine Dion back.
Okay dave . . . it's gut check time . . . which is more important to send to Canada: Celine Dion or the left wingers who you're anticipating will be whining four the next four years?

It seems to me that Corlene made it very clear that you can't send both . . .


Last edited by talemyn; 11-05-04 at 02:39 AM.
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Old 11-05-04, 02:33 AM
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They would still post from Canada, so I'll still go with getting rid of Celine Dion.
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Old 11-05-04, 02:39 AM
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Originally posted by kvrdave
They would still post from Canada, so I'll still go with getting rid of Celine Dion.
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Old 11-05-04, 05:51 AM
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Originally posted by darkflounder
This is the greatest thing I've heard in a long time. You know what all this means???

Less liberals in the US to vote for Hillary in '08. Let's make her defeat that much more resounding!
Exactly, hey, I'll even help them pack, lovingly wrap their knickknacks in bubblewrap.
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