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An American Dentist Killed Zimbabwe’s Famous Lion

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An American Dentist Killed Zimbabwe’s Famous Lion

Old 07-28-15, 10:49 PM
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Re: An American Dentist Killed Zimbabwe’s Famous Lion

Originally Posted by cpgator View Post
OK now that is just stupid.
The act of killing an animal simply for sport, and feeling pride instead of sorrow...that's messed up shit. Murder is murder, is what I believe movieguru was stating.
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Old 07-28-15, 10:50 PM
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Re: An American Dentist Killed Zimbabwe’s Famous Lion

I think these kind of big game hunts should be illegal in today's world. Might have been acceptable back 100 years ago but now these animals are endangered.
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Old 07-28-15, 11:10 PM
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Re: An American Dentist Killed Zimbabwe’s Famous Lion

Originally Posted by tasha99 View Post
Ironically, sometimes putting a high monetary value on hunting an animal protects the species as a whole.

That's true, but not in this particular case, because:

1) The $50,000 didn't go toward conservation.

2) This particular lion generated millions of dollars in revenue from ecotourism.

3) This particular lion was still breeding.

By comparison, here's a case where killing an endangered animal did indeed benefit the species overall. Note the bolded parts:



http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/s...gged-his-prey/

Texas hunter who paid $350,000 to kill an endangered black rhino has bagged his prey

May 21, 2015

A Namibian black rhinoceros is dead after a days-long hunt by an American man whose $350,000 bid to kill the endangered animal set off an international controversy.

In the final moments Monday, in an undisclosed location in northern Namibia, the fearsome rhino bull came rushing toward Texas hunter Corey Knowlton, local trackers and a CNN camera crew that was invited to document the hunt.

Knowlton took aim and fired two shots with a high-powered rifle from less than 30 feet away, CNN reported.

A third shot was fired and the animal was dead.

It was the end of a saga that began when Knowlton purchased the permit to hunt the animal at a January 2014 auction.

The bull, Knowlton said, was a problem in his own herd. The animal was too old to breed but so aggressive that it had already killed calves, cows and and other male rhinoceroses in a jealous rage.

Prized by poachers, black rhinos are critically endangered; there are fewer than 5,000 of them left on Earth. But the threat to their survival is from outside and within, Knowlton said.

Proponents call it "conservation hunting," the practice of offering hunting opportunities for a fee that can then be used on the conservation effort.

It is a divisive idea, but one that some conservationists have come to support, as The Washington Post reported earlier this year:


In a statement, the International Union for the Conservation of Nature said the concern over killing a rhinoceros for sport is understandable but confuses illegal poaching with well-managed hunting tourism.

“Well-managed trophy hunting has little to do with poaching, and indeed can be a key tool to help combat it,” the union said. Without it, African conservationists “would not be able to employ the upwards of 3,000 field rangers employed to protect wildlife and enforce regulations.”
Knowlton shot the bull "after a three-day hunt through the bush with government officials on hand to ensure he killed the correct animal," AFP reported.

Asked afterward if he still believed his actions benefited the species, Knowlton responded: "100 percent."

"I'm pretty emotional right now, to be honest," he told CNN. "I felt like from day one it was benefiting the black rhino, and I'll feel like that until the day that I die."

He added: "Being on this hunt, with the amount of criticism it brought and the amount of praise it brought from both sides, I don't think it could have brought more awareness to the black rhino."

Knowlton paid a massive sum of money for the permit from the Namibia Ministry of Environment and Tourism, then found himself on the receiving end of death threats. Tens of thousands of people petitioned the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service to prevent him from importing the rhinoceros carcass after the hunt.

"It has been a nightmare," he told The Washington Post late last year.

Ultimately, the Fish and Wildlife Service gave Knowlton the green light -- and the hunt was on.

In its statement announcing the decision, the federal agency noted that hunting specific older bulls that were known to keep cows in the herd from mating with other bulls was necessary to increase the rhino population.

Knowlton let CNN cameras in on the hunt for further vindication.

"At this point, the whole world knows about this hunt and I think it's extremely important that people know it's going down the right way, in the most scientific way that it can possibly happen," he told the network.

He added: "I think people have a problem just with the fact that I like to hunt. ... I want to see the black rhino as abundant as it can be. I believe in the survival of the species."

Still, Knowlton remains the enemy of opponents of conservation hunting.

"I am deeply saddened, disappointed and incredulous that he sees this mission as contributing to the survival of endangered black rhinos," Jeff Flocken, North America regional director for the International Fund for Animal Welfare, said in a statement on Wednesday. "If you pay to take a human life and give to humanitarian causes, it does not make you a humanitarian. And paying money to kill one of the last iconic animals on earth does not make you a conservationist."

As for the rhino Knowlton bagged: Meat from the 3,000 pound animal was taken to a nearby village for food. And Knowlton will import the horns, the hide and body to the U.S. as his hunter's trophy, according to CNN.

"It’s hard to say why hunters value the remains so much — respect, a memorial, the time you had with it, I believe it’s all of that,” Knowlton told The Post months before the hunt. "A hunter’s relationship with wildlife is intimate."
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Old 07-28-15, 11:16 PM
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Re: An American Dentist Killed Zimbabwe’s Famous Lion

It takes a special kind of asshole to kill a lion.
People who display pics of themselves with dead animals they have killed are seriously demented.
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Old 07-28-15, 11:20 PM
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Re: An American Dentist Killed Zimbabwe’s Famous Lion

Originally Posted by cungar View Post
Funny didn't see any posts from grundle about Ted Nugent's hunting conquests

Isn't he a hero among the right wing NRA crowd?






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Old 07-28-15, 11:37 PM
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Re: An American Dentist Killed Zimbabwe’s Famous Lion

Originally Posted by Mikael79 View Post
The act of killing an animal simply for sport, and feeling pride instead of sorrow...that's messed up shit. Murder is murder, is what I believe movieguru was stating.
I've personally always felt this way and I live in an area of the country where hunting is very commonplace. I wouldn't compare it to the Aurora shooting but people who hunt and justify it as a "sport" are pretty messed up. There's really nothing sporting about using a high powered weapon to gun down or shoot down an animal. Its just acceptable to do so because animals are seen as lesser beings to some and killing them is somehow justified.
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Old 07-28-15, 11:47 PM
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Re: An American Dentist Killed Zimbabwe’s Famous Lion

Originally Posted by tasha99 View Post
Ironically, sometimes putting a high monetary value on hunting an animal protects the species as a whole.
But donating the money to conservation without killing an endangered animal would make more sense.
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Old 07-29-15, 12:45 AM
  #33  
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Re: An American Dentist Killed Zimbabwe’s Famous Lion

You don't pay 50,000 bucks to hunt an animal unless it is a particular animal and not just any lion.
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Old 07-29-15, 02:06 AM
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Re: An American Dentist Killed Zimbabwe’s Famous Lion

Originally Posted by movieguru View Post
But donating the money to conservation without killing an endangered animal would make more sense.
No, I meant that placing a value on the live animals increases protection against poaching, because everyone is out to catch poachers. Just donating money doesn't do that. I'm not a big fan of big game hunting the way I am of subsistence hunting, but it isn't totally without merit.
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Old 07-29-15, 02:20 AM
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Re: An American Dentist Killed Zimbabwe’s Famous Lion

I'm assuming this asshole dentist is a big liberal, otherwise grundle would not have started this thread.

I hope this fucker ends up in a Zimbabwe prison over this.
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Old 07-29-15, 06:55 AM
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Re: An American Dentist Killed Zimbabwe’s Famous Lion

Saw on the Today show, he has closed his practice and gone into hiding after death threats.
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Old 07-29-15, 07:08 AM
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Re: An American Dentist Killed Zimbabwe’s Famous Lion

Originally Posted by stingermck View Post
Saw on the Today show, he has closed his practice and gone into hiding after death threats.
"you killed something. killing something is wrong. only assholes kill things. so I'm going to kill you now"

Also, if your response to a "death threat" is to close your business and go into hiding, then I'm going to assume that he actually fears for his life. Unlike the people who's response to "death threats" is to go onto gofundme and beg for money.
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Old 07-29-15, 07:09 AM
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Re: An American Dentist Killed Zimbabwe’s Famous Lion

Originally Posted by Tracer Bullet View Post
Lions are endangered. Deer aren't.
When did that happen? Last time I checked, lions were considered "vulnerable," not "endangered."
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Old 07-29-15, 07:13 AM
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Re: An American Dentist Killed Zimbabwe’s Famous Lion

Stories like this just get me so angry. I love animals and I just cannot get into the head of someone who gets a thrill from killing them....such a thrill that he would pay $50,000 to do it.

Originally Posted by movieguru View Post
But donating the money to conservation without killing an endangered animal would make more sense.
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Old 07-29-15, 07:50 AM
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Re: An American Dentist Killed Zimbabwe’s Famous Lion

http://www.newsnet5.com/news/nationa...hunt-was-legal

BLOOMINGTON, Minn. - A Minnesota dentist who went on a guided bow hunting trip for big game in Zimbabwe said that he had no idea the lion he killed was protected and that he relied on the expertise of his local guides to ensure the hunt was legal.

Walter Palmer, who has a felony record in the U.S. related to shooting a black bear in Wisconsin, released a statement Tuesday after Zimbabwean authorities identified him as the American involved in the July hunt. They said Palmer is being sought on poaching charges, but Palmer said he hasn't heard from U.S. or Zimbabwean authorities.

"I had no idea that the lion I took was a known, local favorite, was collared and part of a study until the end of the hunt," said Palmer, a dentist who lives in the Minneapolis suburb of Eden Prairie. He said his guides had proper permits, and to his knowledge, everything was handled properly.

"I deeply regret that my pursuit of an activity I love and practice responsibly and legally resulted in the taking of this lion," he said.

The 55-year-old was identified by the Zimbabwe Conservation Task Force, the Safari Operators Association of Zimbabwe and police as the American facing poaching charges for the crossbow killing of Cecil, a well-known lion. Local authorities allege the lion was lured from a protected area and killed in early July. Zimbabwean conservationists said the American allegedly paid $50,000 for the trip.

The lion's death has outraged animal conservationists and others, including U.S. Rep. Betty McCollum, a Minnesota Democrat. In a statement late Tuesday, the congresswoman called for an investigation by the U.S. Attorney's Office and the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service to see whether any U.S. laws were violated.

Ingrid Newkirk, president of People for the Ethical Treatment of Animals, condemned the lion's killing in a statement.

"To get a thrill at the cost of a life, this man gunned down a beloved lion, Cecil with a high-powered weapon," the PETA statement said.

Palmer's hired spokesman, Jon Austin, said he believed Palmer was in the Minneapolis-St. Paul area Tuesday. No one answered the door at Palmer's home, and a woman who came out of his dental office in nearby Bloomington said he wasn't there or taking patients Tuesday. Phone calls to listed home numbers went unanswered.

According to U.S. court records, Palmer pleaded guilty in 2008 to making false statements to the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service about a black bear he fatally shot in western Wisconsin. Palmer had a permit to hunt but shot the animal outside the authorized zone in 2006, then tried to pass it off as being killed elsewhere, according to court documents. He was given one year probation and fined nearly $3,000.

Doug Kelley, a former federal prosecutor and Palmer's attorney in the bear case, was unavailable for comment Tuesday, according to his assistant.

Palmer has several hunts on record with the Pope and Young Club, where archers register big game taken in North America for posterity, said Glenn Hisey, the club's director of records. Hisey said he didn't have immediate access to records showing the types and number of animals killed by Palmer, but he noted that club records involve legal hunts "taken under our rules of fair chase."

Although African game wouldn't be eligible, Hisey said he alerted the group's board that Palmer's ethics were being called into question. He said Palmer's domestic records could be jeopardized if he's found to have done something illegal abroad.

A Facebook page for Palmer's Minnesota dental practice was taken offline Tuesday after users flooded it with comments condemning Palmer's involvement in the hunt. Hundreds of similar comments inundated a page for his dental practice on the review platform Yelp, which prior to Tuesday had only three comments.

Some people left stuffed animals at the door to his shuttered office Tuesday in a sign of protest.

Palmer is properly licensed and able to practice in the state, according to the Minnesota Board of Dentistry. Board records show that Palmer was the subject of a sexual harassment complaint settled in 2006, with Palmer admitting no wrongdoing and agreeing to pay a former receptionist more than $127,000.
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Old 07-29-15, 08:13 AM
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Re: An American Dentist Killed Zimbabwe’s Famous Lion

Originally Posted by grundle View Post
Thanks for verifying my post
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Old 07-29-15, 08:24 AM
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Re: An American Dentist Killed Zimbabwe’s Famous Lion

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Old 07-29-15, 08:59 AM
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Re: An American Dentist Killed Zimbabwe’s Famous Lion

Someone needs to explain to me where the joy comes from in killing a lion. To watch this great beast fall and give it's last breath. I just cannot comprehend it.
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Old 07-29-15, 09:03 AM
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Re: An American Dentist Killed Zimbabwe’s Famous Lion

Originally Posted by stingermck View Post
Saw on the Today show, he has closed his practice and gone into hiding after death threats.
aaah, now the hunter has become the huntee.

How does that feel?
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Old 07-29-15, 09:12 AM
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Re: An American Dentist Killed Zimbabwe’s Famous Lion

Originally Posted by Troy Stiffler View Post
I dunno. Do you eat lions? I grew up around deer hunters, so I'm accustomed to hunt-and-eat.
If you eat what you kill, it automagically becomes okay. This is why the authorities had to let Jeffery Dahmer go.
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Old 07-29-15, 09:17 AM
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Re: An American Dentist Killed Zimbabwe’s Famous Lion

Originally Posted by RoyalTea View Post
When did that happen? Last time I checked, lions were considered "vulnerable," not "endangered."
Oh, shit - well, let's go ahead and move the lions to the endangered list!

I don't agree with the death threats, but I understand those who believe in the "eye for an eye" logic.
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Old 07-29-15, 09:39 AM
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Re: An American Dentist Killed Zimbabwe’s Famous Lion

Americans sure do live up to their international stereotype sometimes.
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Old 07-29-15, 09:44 AM
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Re: An American Dentist Killed Zimbabwe’s Famous Lion

The feel-good outrage around these types of instances gets old. While I don't understand the 'thrill' of sport killing an animal, I certainly view it as no worse on a moral level than eating animal products from a factory farm. And the whole 'well it's fine if they eat it' argument doesn't hold much water in modern civilization. It's bizarre to argue that the morality of killing something depends on whether you enjoy killing it or just like the way its corpse tastes.
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Old 07-29-15, 09:55 AM
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Re: An American Dentist Killed Zimbabwe’s Famous Lion

Originally Posted by maxfisher View Post
The feel-good outrage around these types of instances gets old. While I don't understand the 'thrill' of sport killing an animal, I certainly view it as no worse on a moral level than eating animal products from a factory farm. And the whole 'well it's fine if they eat it' argument doesn't hold much water in modern civilization. It's bizarre to argue that the morality of killing something depends on whether you enjoy killing it or just like the way its corpse tastes.
I agree with all but the last. The animals my friend's husband has shot in Africa were eaten--not so much by him as by local people (he keeps the pelts (I think--can't say I ever saw one) and the locals get a ton of money). It seems very win-win to me. That food that comes in you in cellophane packages was usually raised in horrific conditions, which is oddly not upsetting to most people. I'm much more comfortable eating moose that lived free.

But . . . Americans like to be disconnected from their food sources and the circle of life. My best friend's husband owns an urban farming store, and he gets threats because he offers to "take care" of mis-sexed roosters and non-laying chickens. They eat everything--no waste, but still, he has customers who think once you buy a chicken for eggs, it should be a pet forever. To me it's common sense that you would eat them eventually--it's urban farming.
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Old 07-29-15, 10:04 AM
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Re: An American Dentist Killed Zimbabwe’s Famous Lion

What is a mis-sexed rooster?
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