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Testing a fuel pump (motorcycle).

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Testing a fuel pump (motorcycle).

Old 07-22-15, 09:29 PM
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Testing a fuel pump (motorcycle).

Long story short, bike won't start, fuel pump doesn't prime. Fuse, checked. Fuel pump relay, checked. So I removed the fuel pump from the gas tank and I want to test it to see if it's dead or not.

This guy changed his, same bike, same fuel pump. He tests it with the plug connected to the bike and you hear the "wheezing" sound of the pump priming when he turns on the key in the ignition:

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/p1QleDGOMpw" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

I assume he tested the fuse, fuel pump relay, and ruled out other potential electrical issues before he ordered a new pump.

Now I want to test the pump directly, bypassing the bike's electricals. So, on top of the pump, you can see a red and a brown wire connected to "terminals" (or whatever you call those). So, if I take two pieces of wire and connect one to each terminal, and the other ends (equivalent to brown) anywhere metal on the bike, (equivalent to red) to '+' on the battery, the pump should start, correct? And if it doesn't, it's dead?

(4KRG, are you there?)

Last edited by eXcentris; 07-22-15 at 09:35 PM.
Old 07-22-15, 09:48 PM
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Re: Testing a fuel pump (motorcycle).

That should do it. Alligator clips would be helpful.

Make sure you don't have any fuel vapor around. There will be a spark.

I'm doubtful about painting the metal that goes inside the tank, the way that guy does in the video. I would leave it bare metal.
Old 07-22-15, 10:19 PM
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Re: Testing a fuel pump (motorcycle).

Originally Posted by Nick Danger View Post
That should do it. Alligator clips would be helpful.
No clips, but I guess I can just unscrew the bolts a little and "squeeze" the bit
of bare wire under that, and then "hook" the brown wire on a metal part and touch the "+" battery lead with the red wire. Or maybe I'll just go to Canadian Tire in the morning...

Does it matter what size wire I use? I have a big roll of electrical wire I use to change ceiling lights. I guess I can just cut a piece, and use the red/black wires inside that.

Make sure you don't have any fuel vapor around. There will be a spark.
Good tip. My garage reeks of gas since I removed the gas tank.
I'll probably remove the battery and do it indoors.

I'm doubtful about painting the metal that goes inside the tank, the way that guy does in the video. I would leave it bare metal.
Mine is fine, no corrosion whatsoever. Took me a while to find the fuel pump until I realized the whole darn thing was inside the tank.
Old 07-22-15, 11:03 PM
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Re: Testing a fuel pump (motorcycle).

Yeah, just run 12v to it and it should spin. Don't do it for too long, though, as you could easily burn it out with no load.
Old 07-22-15, 11:11 PM
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Re: Testing a fuel pump (motorcycle).

You wired the lights into a 15 amp circuit, right? The wire you used for that will be plenty. I bet it's a lot larger than the wires BMW used on the pump. I did the same thing you're talking about. I pulled a black and a white wire out of two feet of Romex and used them. I did put some spade connectors on one end so I could plug them into the cabin fan for the Buick. Now they live in my toolbox.

If your garage reeks of gas fumes, don't do it in there. You don't want to burn the house down because you're saving $400 on a mechanic's bill.
Old 07-22-15, 11:43 PM
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Re: Testing a fuel pump (motorcycle).

Yeah, the "lights wire" I'm gonna pull from the roll is much bigger than the wires you see on the fuel pump. So I guess they'll do the trick. Would be easier with clips, so as I said, I'll probably drop by Canadian Tire tomorrow.

Andicus, yeah, I know you're not really supposed to do this "dry", but a second or two should be enough.

Thanks guys.
Old 07-23-15, 12:04 AM
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Re: Testing a fuel pump (motorcycle).

Originally Posted by eXcentris View Post
I assume he tested the fuse, fuel pump relay, and ruled out other potential electrical issues before he ordered a new pump.
I would hope You can test if you have a multimeter


Now I want to test the pump directly, bypassing the bike's electricals. So, on top of the pump, you can see a red and a brown wire connected to "terminals" (or whatever you call those). So, if I take two pieces of wire and connect one to each terminal, and the other ends (equivalent to brown) anywhere metal on the bike, (equivalent to red) to '+' on the battery, the pump should start, correct? And if it doesn't, it's dead?

(4KRG, are you there?)
I am late to the party, but yes, positive to positive on the battery, and negative to a grounding point on the bike (usually metal, but this is a BMW, so.... you never know what they hell they did )

The pump should turn on, only run for a second and you won't overheat it


and yes, do not do this in a garage full of fumes

Hell, pull the battery, and pull the pump and walk outside and hook it up direct to the battery, as a quick test *should* not hurt anything

The reason I say *SHOULD* is your link is not fused in anyway at this point, so if something can draw more power than it should (depending on how the pump went bad, if it is even bad), you might have a small pump fire on your hands (VERY SLIM, just know POSSIBLE).


This is why I have a simple bike

I can fix anything on it with a rubber band, a paper clip, and some tape
Old 07-23-15, 12:09 AM
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Re: Testing a fuel pump (motorcycle).

and ouch, that pump is like $400 in the states, probably closer to what $600 in canuckistan?

might make me want to try a cheap ebay clone (not sure if this is the exact right one as I don't remember your model year)

http://www.ebay.com/itm/New-Intank-E...-/380444951407

and just the fact that there are a bunch of cheap ebay clones tells me that your pump probably did go bad
Old 07-23-15, 02:48 AM
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Re: Testing a fuel pump (motorcycle).

All I ever did on this bike was change the oil.

At first I didn't know what the problem was. But I noticed that when I turned the key to start the bike, I got a faint "click" instead of the usual "wheezing" sound. So I started searching on the internet and found info on some forums plus the above YouTube video (and the one the guy made prior to that when his pump was bad). Then I was lucky enough to find a link to the .pdf repair manual for my bike in a post on a BMW forum. So that helped me figure out the fuse and fuel pump relay stuff. I also found a link from an owner of the same bike with a whole bunch of "how-to" service stuff:

http://pokiespages.com/pokie/index.htm

Nothing specific on the fuel pump, but I learned how to remove the tank, etc... very useful.

And yeah, BMW parts are ridiculously expensive. I was quoted $589 + install by my dealer for the "fuel pump kit".

A lot of BMW users on forums recommended this vendor and they have the same kit for $250 USD:

http://www.beemerboneyard.com/16141341231nkoh.html

Pump on your ebay link won't fit my bike (2001 BMW R1200C Classic), but I'll check tomorrow if I can find someone else on ebay who sells just the pump.
Old 07-23-15, 04:06 PM
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Re: Testing a fuel pump (motorcycle).

Well, diddly squat happened when I tested with the battery. Even tested with 3 different size of wires. I talked to an auto mechanic on break outside at lunch time at Canadian Tire and he told me the "lights wire" was too big (something about resistance), and he went inside and got me a smaller piece of wire to use. I got a mini spark 1st time I tried (when touching the '+' battery lead), but no sign of life from the pump. And every time after that, zilch, nothing. So I'm pretty sure the pump is dead.

I'll remove the pump, open it, and check the contact points like this guy is doing:

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/4CmzkwuJlyA" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

I just need to figure out how to remove the two #@$#@%[email protected] clamps between the fuel pump and the filter. The hoses that go inside the tank had similar clamps but I just squeezed the protuding bit with pliers and they "unhooked". These are different though. They are solid all the way around and squeezing the protruding bit with pliers just flattens it, there's no "hooking" mechanism...
Old 07-23-15, 04:29 PM
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Re: Testing a fuel pump (motorcycle).

Standard house wiring is 14 gauge. It has a resistance of about 2.5 ohms per 1000 ft. He doesn't know what he's talking about.

Regardless, it sounds like you've determined your problem.

Can you post a picture of the clamps? They sound like the clamps that came on my rad hoses from the factory. If so, it's the same principle...
Old 07-23-15, 05:10 PM
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Re: Testing a fuel pump (motorcycle).

Originally Posted by eXcentris View Post
All I ever did on this bike was change the oil.

At first I didn't know what the problem was. But I noticed that when I turned the key to start the bike, I got a faint "click" instead of the usual "wheezing" sound. So I started searching on the internet and found info on some forums plus the above YouTube video (and the one the guy made prior to that when his pump was bad). Then I was lucky enough to find a link to the .pdf repair manual for my bike in a post on a BMW forum. So that helped me figure out the fuse and fuel pump relay stuff. I also found a link from an owner of the same bike with a whole bunch of "how-to" service stuff:

http://pokiespages.com/pokie/index.htm

Nothing specific on the fuel pump, but I learned how to remove the tank, etc... very useful.

And yeah, BMW parts are ridiculously expensive. I was quoted $589 + install by my dealer for the "fuel pump kit".

A lot of BMW users on forums recommended this vendor and they have the same kit for $250 USD:

http://www.beemerboneyard.com/16141341231nkoh.html

Pump on your ebay link won't fit my bike (2001 BMW R1200C Classic), but I'll check tomorrow if I can find someone else on ebay who sells just the pump.
Wire is never "too big," that's bullshit pure and simple. It might be larger than you really need and too expensive, but big is not a problem, it's always better if you can afford it. You just draw the line at a point of diminishing returns.

Is the engine carburretted or fuel injected? If fuel injected, the pump needs to achieve whatever pressure is required for the fuel rail, and that is more important than volume of fuel. Seals can give out, and even a pump that appears to move fuel at low pressure may not work. For a carburretted engine, only low fuel pressure is required, if it moves any fuel. its probably OK.

Of course, if it doesn't run at all, in the immortal words of Dr McCoy, "It's dead, Jim."
Old 07-23-15, 07:21 PM
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Re: Testing a fuel pump (motorcycle).

I didn't have a clue about the "wire too big" stuff but anyway, I tried with three different size of wires and the pump never gave any sign of life. So, DEAD.

I went to a friend's house with the pump, and he managed to take the clamps off, so we took the whole pump assembly apart. It's impossible to look inside the pump like the guy did in the video above because the entire pump is sealed.

I'll probably order the "fuel pump kit" at $250 from the link I posted above since also changing the filter coudn't hurt. Plus it comes with all the clamps (the factory ones I removed are "single use only"), the vibration damper and the two submersible hoses. The existing damper had plastic bits literally falling off when we took the pump apart and I damaged one of the submersible hoses when I took it off.
Old 07-23-15, 07:27 PM
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Re: Testing a fuel pump (motorcycle).

Did you try peeing in the tailpipe?
Old 07-23-15, 07:30 PM
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Re: Testing a fuel pump (motorcycle).

Wow a mechanic at CT that doesn't know what they're talking about. What a surprise.
Old 07-23-15, 07:44 PM
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Re: Testing a fuel pump (motorcycle).

Originally Posted by Shazam View Post
Wow a mechanic at CT that doesn't know what they're talking about. What a surprise.
Funny but true. Rule of thumb, never take your car there.

But hey, he gave me a piece of wire for free.
Old 07-29-15, 05:54 PM
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Re: Testing a fuel pump (motorcycle).

Got new fuel pump kit, replaced parts, plugged fuel pump plug into bike harness, turn key on, Success! Sweet sound of pump priming! Woot!
Old 07-29-15, 09:48 PM
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Re: Testing a fuel pump (motorcycle).

Excellent!

Ride safely.
Old 07-31-15, 07:14 PM
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Re: Testing a fuel pump (motorcycle).

Well rats... I need to change the two hoses inside the tank because they are full of cracks. BMW dealer quoted $73 EACH. Ridiculous... After some research, what I need is SAE J30 R10 3/16". Can't find that anywhere. Looks like Napa in the US has it, but only 5/16". I went to a couple of auto parts stores and they tried to sell me R7 rated hoses. When I explained that only R10 was rated for inside the tank use, they looked completely confused...

Looks like some guys on forums have been using something called Tygon F-4040-A. I'll see if I can find that and if it's really as resistant to gasoline/chemicals as the R10 hoses.
Old 07-31-15, 10:11 PM
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Re: Testing a fuel pump (motorcycle).

Tygon doesn't call it submersible. But they say it has low permeability.

http://plasticdistribution.net/data/tygon-4040a.pdf

If other people are getting good results, I'd give it a try. (I'd also mark a date on my calendar to check them.)
Old 08-01-15, 12:13 AM
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Re: Testing a fuel pump (motorcycle).

Thanks. Only thing that worried me on that spec sheet is 3/16" rated at Max 35 PSI. That doesn't sound nearly enough to me. I thought I needed 90...

Also, I figured out that I didn't get many results searching for SAE J30 R10 because that's just the spec. What I need is "Gates 27093 Fuel Line Hose". It's on Amazon and a number of other places but oddly enough they all seem to sell only 1 foot sections. People who needed 3 feet complained that they got 3 separate 1 foot sections.

I'll keep looking...
Old 08-01-15, 12:21 AM
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Re: Testing a fuel pump (motorcycle).

Is that a fuel line or a vent line?

Search for submersible fuel hose. Gates makes different sizes, and might go down to 3/16".
Old 08-01-15, 12:29 AM
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Re: Testing a fuel pump (motorcycle).

Looks like the Gates hoses only go down to 1/4". See page A33.

http://www.gates.com/~/media/files/g...nt-4312061.pdf
Old 08-01-15, 12:44 PM
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Re: Testing a fuel pump (motorcycle).

You're right, the Gates part# I listed is 5/16" not 3/16", my bad. And yes, they are vent lines. On the outside they don't connect to anything, they just hang loose near the right foot peg.

Anyway, after more searching, I found the actual BMW part#, searched for it at an online dealer, and boom:

http://www.maxbmwmotorcycles.com/fic...er=13532325737

13 53 2 325 737 HOSE RUNNING METER - 5X10 (meter) $22.97

Should have done that in the first place...

So, I don't know what the guy at my BMW dealer was smoking, or maybe he was looking at the wrong part, but $73 x 2 can't be the right price. Heck, one meter is enough since I only need 2 x 17" = 34".

I'll call them again.
Old 08-01-15, 06:05 PM
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Re: Testing a fuel pump (motorcycle).

Called again with part#, had one in stock, $27.99 + tax. Went and bought it. Next time, I'll know to check part# before I go off looking for alternatives...

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