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California Cops Taser Senior Citizen in His Own Home

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California Cops Taser Senior Citizen in His Own Home

Old 09-04-10, 09:26 PM
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Re: California Cops Taser Senior Citizen in His Own Home

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Old 09-12-10, 09:44 AM
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Cruel and unusial punishment?

There was an interesting article regarding the use of TASERs in Wired here: http://www.wired.com/dangerroom/2010...orce-behavior/
Old 09-12-10, 10:10 AM
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Re: California Cops Taser Senior Citizen in His Own Home

Originally Posted by Hokeyboy View Post
I'm surprised our usual Baconators haven't jumped in to defend their heroic brothers in blue...
I'm assuming I'm included in that. I just assumed the usual smelly hippies should have their fun unmolested.

I actually never saw the thread. From only watching the video and reading the article I would think the officers are in the wrong for tazing the man. The officers need at the very least major retraining and an evaluation on whether they are suited for the job. From the individual officers stand point the only thing they did wrong was the tazing. Anything else (being on scene, entering the house, requiring the man get a psych eval) is part of policy and the law. If you have a problem with that then work to get it changed. If the officers left and the man did commit suicide then both would be fired and sued for everything they own.

The police state hyperbole doesn't even need to be addressed.

I am for a smaller less intrusive government and much less laws and regulations. It's funny how it seems to be mainly liberals complaining about police powers unconstitutionality and yet they consistently vote for people who increase government intervention. Who do you think enforces all of those laws (hint: it’s where the term “law enforcement” comes from)?
Old 09-12-10, 10:46 AM
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Re: California Cops Taser Senior Citizen in His Own Home

Evidently this man was drunk and admitted to recently holding a gun to his head.

http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/tased-hous...ry?id=11531608
Old 09-12-10, 10:50 AM
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Re: California Cops Taser Senior Citizen in His Own Home

That article doesn't say that.
Old 09-12-10, 10:58 AM
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Re: California Cops Taser Senior Citizen in His Own Home

Scroll down--sounds like this is in the video as well:
But police told a different story. McFarland, who had been drinking, said he wanted to kill himself and that he was depressed. Deputies can be heard on the weapon-mounted video, asking calmly for him to come with them.

"We want to take you to the hospital for an evaluation," the unnamed deputy said. "You said if you had a gun you would shoot yourself in the head."

"I'm depressed," McFarland replied.

Then, the deputy: "OK, well that's why we want to take you to talk to somebody."
This man does not deny holding a gun to his head. He may have been lying, nobody knows. This is especially dangerous if the cops dont SEE a gun because maybe its tucked in his pants or between the couch cushions or who knows where. Sudden moves could get them killed.

Last edited by Save Ferris; 09-12-10 at 11:04 AM.
Old 09-12-10, 11:07 AM
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Re: California Cops Taser Senior Citizen in His Own Home

That's ridiculous. "If I had a gun I would shoot myself" does not imply in the least that he might have a gun. In fact, it implies the opposite.

"Does not deny holding a gun to his head?" Why would he deny something he hasn't been asked?
Old 09-12-10, 11:40 AM
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Re: California Cops Taser Senior Citizen in His Own Home

Originally Posted by starman9000 View Post
That's ridiculous. "If I had a gun I would shoot myself" does not imply in the least that he might have a gun. In fact, it implies the opposite.

"Does not deny holding a gun to his head?" Why would he deny something he hasn't been asked?
What you don't understand is that statement when brought to a law enforcement officer's attention requires they be taken for a psych eval.
Old 09-12-10, 12:20 PM
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Re: California Cops Taser Senior Citizen in His Own Home

Originally Posted by DeputyDave View Post
What you don't understand is that statement when brought to a law enforcement officer's attention requires they be taken for a psych eval.
I understand that just fine, but that wasn't what Save Ferris said.
Old 09-12-10, 12:24 PM
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Re: California Cops Taser Senior Citizen in His Own Home

Originally Posted by starman9000 View Post
I understand that just fine, but that wasn't what Save Ferris said.
Ah, you're right. Sorry about the tone.
Old 09-12-10, 01:50 PM
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Re: California Cops Taser Senior Citizen in His Own Home

yea yeah i missed one word
Old 09-12-10, 02:05 PM
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Re: California Cops Taser Senior Citizen in His Own Home

Sometimes "IF" can be a pretty big word.
Old 09-15-10, 02:43 PM
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Re: California Cops Taser Senior Citizen in His Own Home

http://blogs.alternet.org/speakeasy/...lethal-weapon/

Healthy 28-Yr-Old Tasered By Cops Has Heart Attack — When Will Police Stop Using This Lethal Weapon?
This post first appeared on Booman Tribune.

A mentally ill man diagnosed with a bipolar disorder was tasered by two Minneapolis Police officers at a YMCA on Friday. The man was not armed but was struggling with police who had been called to the scene. The taser caused his heart to go into cardiac arrest. He is now in a Minneapolis hospital in critical condition after his heart stopped and he had to resuscitated at least twice:

A Minneapolis man shot by police with a Taser last week during an altercation at the downtown Minneapolis YMCA is on life support and is not expected to survive, a family member said Saturday.David Cornelius Smith, 28, suffered from mental illness, said his uncle, Larry Smith, an attorney from Oak Park, Ill. He remained hospitalized Saturday at Hennepin County Medical Center. Family members believe that police mishandled Thursday’s Tasering incident, Larry Smith said. [...]

“I’m sure the police are trained to handle individuals with mental health issues,” he said. “There are a lot of people with mental health issues in this country, and they don’t get Tased by the police.”

Police were called to the YMCA at 30 S. 9th St. at 3:45 p.m. Thursday on a report of a man who was disturbing patrons and were directed to the sixth-floor gym. When officers Timothy Gorman and Timothy Callahan tried to physically remove Smith from the Y, he fought with them for several minutes, injuring one of them slightly before he was shot with a Taser. [...]

Larry Smith said the initial jolt from the Taser caused David Smith to go into cardiac arrest. “It didn’t stop his heart; it killed him,” he said. “Paramedics restarted his heart on scene.”

Since he arrived at the hospital Thursday, Smith’s heart has stopped again and once again he was revived, his uncle said. [...]

David Smith, a native of Peoria, moved to Minneapolis about eight years ago for a Job Corps position and decided to stay in the city, his uncle said. He lived on his own and was taking college courses, though Larry Smith wasn’t sure where. When the two last spoke in June, Larry Smith said his nephew talked about getting into a finance job and taking classes to become an investment banker.

David Smith was a “charismatic young man” who was an accomplished cello player in high school, Larry Smith said.

Two things: this man apparently had no weapon or the police would have mentioned it in their report. So, though he may have been trying to fight off the officers who came to remove him from the YMCA, a taser was not an absolute necessity. Other options were available such as calling for more police officers or mental health professionals with experience dealing with agitated people.

Second, can there be any doubt that tasers are lethal weapons that can kill even apparently healthy individuals? David Smith was supposedly in good physical condition according to his family. Yet the taser stopped his heart immediately.

Clearly in this situation the officers would not have been justified to use a gun since the disturbed man had at most “slightly injured” one of the officers after several minutes of resisting arrest. Wouldn’t the better course have been to call for more back up and try to calm Mr. Smith down rather than using a taser?

I’m sure the police felt justified in their actions because supposedly tasers are non-lethal, but that’s the problem: they aren’t, and you cannot predict when they will kill someone.

A 2008 report (PDF) from Amnesty International found 351 Taser-related deaths in the US between June, 2001 and August, 2008, a rate of just slightly above four deaths per month.A database of Taser-related deaths maintained at the African-American issues blog Electronic Village counts 96 deaths related to the use of Tasers since January, 2009.

Assuming the statistics are correct, that indicates the death rate has increased to an average of five per month.

Electronic Village counts the 96th Taser-linked death as being that of Adam Colliers, a 25-year-old resident of Snohomish County, Washington, who was reportedly “running up and down” a street and causing a disturbance when he was Tased by two officers. He stopped breathing shortly afterwards, and was pronounced dead in hospital a short while later.

Unfortunately police departments often use tasers as a means to take people into custody when other, less lethal means are still available.

Two other men died last week in a strikingly similar situations after being tasered by police in western Washington:

Everett Police Sgt. Robert Goetz says officers were called to the scene of an early morning disturbance. The 25-year-old man reportedly charged a deputy, who used the Taser on him.After the man was hit, the deputies found he wasn’t breathing. They began CPR and called for medical aid. The man was taken to a hospital but could not be revived.

This is the second time in a week that a man has died in Western Washington after being shocked by a Taser. A 27-year-old stopped breathing in Spanaway on Tuesday during an encounter with Pierce County authorities.

Here are the details of the man who was tasered and died in Spanaway, Washington:

Deputies were called about 8:30 a.m. Tuesday to a Spanaway apartment where the 27-year-old man had been staying but refused to leave. He had thrown a propane tank from a barbecue through a window and was hiding behind a couch when deputies arrived.When he struggled, deputies used the Taser stun gun, put him in handcuffs and bound his feet.

Paramedics were on their way when he lost consciousness. He could not be revived and was pronounced dead at St. Claire Hospital in Lakewood.


Police are “investigating” whether drugs or alcohol” played a role ion his death. Well, one thing I can tell them for certain is that the taser played the greatest role in these individuals dying, yet somehow our media reports the story as if we should assume that a person on drugs and alcohol, or who suffers from mental illness, is responsible for their own death, rather than the use of a taser by law enforcement.

Isn’t it time to treat tasers as the equivalent of guns? Not every person shot by the police dies from their wounds but we wouldn’t authorize police to use their firearms to take shoot someone in order to take them into custody for resisting arrest, so why is a taser any different at this point? How many more deaths do we need to prove the point?

Here are some other recent examples of what I would consider inappropriate taser use by the police:

Police used a Taser stun gun to subdue a man after he jumped off a bridge connecting Iowa and Illinois on Monday.The man jumped Monday morning about 100 feet off the Interstate 74 Bridge into the Mississippi River and survived. KWQC-TV in Davenport reports a call came in around 10 a.m. that a man had crashed his vehicle on the bridge. He was seen walking around, then jumped into the river and managed to swim to a nearby small island.

Capt. Greg Trudell with the Bettendorf Police Department said the man “appeared to be quite disturbed.”

Officers said when they reached the man, he wouldn’t talk or listen to officers, forcing them to use a Taser.

Note the language used by the reporters: “Officers said when they reached the man, he wouldn’t talk or listen to officers, forcing them to use a Taser.” Again we see a case of a taser being employed because the individual “wouldn’t talk or listen” to officers” so they were “forced” to use their taser. When did simple failure to follow police instructions justify being shocked with 50,000 to 75,000 volts of electricity?

Did we simply allow law enforcement officials to shoot these people in the past if they “appeared to be quite disturbed” and “refused to listen or talk to the police?” I don’t think so? But use a taser that might kill them also? That’s not a problem, apparently.

Or how about this case of a woman tasered while lying on a hospital gurney?

Pamela Borton believes a Dothan police officer used an electric stun device on her to punish her for being belligerent toward them during a 2006 incident, even though she says she was suffering from bipolar disorder and was restrained face down on a hospital gurney at the time. [...]The incident in question occurred on the afternoon of Aug. 15, 2006, at Southeast Alabama Medical Center. Earlier, paramedics and Midland City Police had responded to Borton’s residence after Borton’s mother called 911 after Borton went into what she called a “manic state.”

Borton testified that the paramedics and officers were forced to handcuff and tie her face down on the gurney before placing her in an ambulance to take her to SAMC. Borton said she was diagnosed with bipolar disorder as a teenager and has been confined on numerous occasions. [...]

That’s where the stories of the two parties in this lawsuit begin to diverge. Borton claims Schulmerich used a Taser on her almost immediately after she arrived at SAMC, applying it to her right calf before she was wheeled into the hospital’s emergency room. Borton claims the device was used on her at least two more times while she was still restrained. She said two male officers, two male paramedics and a male nurse were present in the room. [...]

Borton’s attorney, Gary Hudgins, asked Bissette if using the Taser was the most reasonable response to subdue a 100-pound female with multiple officers and male paramedics present.

“If there are two options, wait or use a Taser and either one will result in the desired outcome, why use the Taser?” Hudgins asked.

“I can’t speak for the officers. I wasn’t there. If the individual was combative, or causing harm to themselves or others, then the use of the Taser is appropriate,” Bissette responded.

Let me be clear. I have no issue with police using a taser when confronted by an armed individual who poses a serious threat to them or when they have committed a violent assault and refuse to submit to arrest. But that does not appear to be the case in the examples I’ve cited.

It’s clear tasers are weapons that employ potential “lethal force” and they should be treated as such by law enforcement agencies. In other words, using a taser should be a matter of last resort by the police, not a means to achieve submission of unruly or disturbed individuals. Until they are, however, we will continue to see people killed and maimed by taser abuse.

--------------------------------

In reality, police are using lethal weapons more and more on individuals that are breaking small laws like not immediately heading instruction from an officer. With the sound cannons that have been known to cause lasting damage on the hearing of individuals we can see that the civil unrest weapons are being ramped up, but why? How come officers under oath to uphold our human rights are required by their superiors to target civilians with such force?
Old 09-15-10, 04:12 PM
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Re: California Cops Taser Senior Citizen in His Own Home

Originally Posted by Lemmy View Post
Because they're sworn to uphold The Law, not "human rights", whatever those are.

The Pigs are a "private club" with their own law/rules and penalties, and your discomfort matters to very, very few of them....and, in some precincts, none of them.
Stop resisting.
Old 09-15-10, 04:34 PM
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Re: California Cops Taser Senior Citizen in His Own Home

Originally Posted by Lemmy View Post
Because they're sworn to uphold The Law, not "human rights", whatever those are.

The Pigs are a "private club" with their own law/rules and penalties, and your discomfort matters to very, very few of them....and, in some precincts, none of them.
They are under oath to defend the constitution and bill of rights.
Old 09-15-10, 05:03 PM
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Re: California Cops Taser Senior Citizen in His Own Home

Tasers are used because they are less lethal then a double tap center mass or a baton to the head and is safer for the officer since anything can happen in a hand-to-hand struggle. Some idiot at a police shooting I saw was going off on the news on why the officers didn't just shoot the person in the leg or (I kid you not) shoot the gun out of his hand. An officer has a duty to uphold the law, but also has a duty to recklessly endanger themselves.

One of the first things a dispatcher asks over the phone is "is there a gun in the house?" because that information can mean life-or-death to the officers on the scene and automatically ramps up the danger level. Domestic calls are notoriously dangerous to officers because often the victim they are there to save will attack the officers once they try to restrain the attacker. Drinking and drugs are also very common at house calls, they are also more likely to have weapons in a domestic situation then if the incident was happening in a public setting.

It is not cut and dry. Did the guy have to be tased? I don't know. If they were in the wrong they'll get punished accordingly. Just thank your stars that your job does not carry that sort of weight on its shoulders. Is a taser the last resort weapon?

No, that is retarded. A gun is a last resort weapon. For every taser death there are many more deaths that are avoided because a taser was an option.
Old 09-15-10, 05:47 PM
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Re: California Cops Taser Senior Citizen in His Own Home

Originally Posted by Navinabob View Post
If they were in the wrong they'll get punished accordingly.
Old 09-15-10, 06:18 PM
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Re: California Cops Taser Senior Citizen in His Own Home

A cop who murders someone goes to jail. A cop who kills someone unjustly or through negligence while doing their job can go to jail... get fired... suspended... lose pension. It all depends on if what happened was while doing their job or not.

If a cop goes to jail if they accidentally killed someone then they would not carry guns and and as a result would not be that great at stopping criminals. It is an acceptable risk, much like friendly fire is in the military or a patient dieing in non-life threatening surgery.

We train people and provide better equipment to limit such things... but it happens.
Old 09-16-10, 03:00 PM
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Re: California Cops Taser Senior Citizen in His Own Home

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LOL @ this convo! The fraternal order of police...asking you for money because tax dollars aren't enough to buy all the tazers they need.
Old 09-16-10, 03:29 PM
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Re: California Cops Taser Senior Citizen in His Own Home

Tell me Guarddog... how long have you worked for the police? If you ever did you'd know that they are woefully understaffed and run with a pathetic budget. While I was at San Jose Parole they still had computers with a green screen that didn't have even had CD drives installed in them. We sat behind questionable "bullet proof glass" where we were instructed to duck "just in case" if our office got targeted by gunfire.

Fuck, I wish there was a secret money fund for officers so they didn't have to hold cash-washes to raise funds for local outreach programs.
Old 09-16-10, 03:52 PM
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Re: California Cops Taser Senior Citizen in His Own Home

I have great sympathy for the police and their arrest targets and undersaffing. However I don't agree that tasers should be used except as a substitute for a gun. The example in this thread is a clear case of when a gun should not be used. I'm also not naive enough to imagine bad cops don't manage to skate by with only occasional reprimands for many years before they get their due.
Old 09-16-10, 04:19 PM
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Re: California Cops Taser Senior Citizen in His Own Home

If funds aren't sufficient the answer isn't go to the people for more money, it's reform the government to where less tax money is spent on bailouts, policing the world, etc. and making the government smaller so it doesn't cost so much to sustain (and get rid of the FED so they can't print loads of money to cause inflation without any checks/balances). We pay the private central bank (one of the planks of the communist manifesto) to print money for us, how absurd the government was doing it just find before! Asking the people for money isn't the solution if there truly is a problem in being underfunded, the solution is fixing the way government spends our money.
Old 09-16-10, 05:17 PM
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Re: California Cops Taser Senior Citizen in His Own Home

G20 protesters?

Them's good eatin'.

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