Other Talk "Otterville" plus Religion/Politics

Mich. Town Split Over Muslim Loudspeakers

Old 04-15-04, 12:35 AM
  #26  
DVD Talk Platinum Edition
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Bay Area, CA
Posts: 3,294
A little insight from bug-eyed Earl
darkflounder is offline  
Old 04-15-04, 01:20 AM
  #27  
Banned by request
 
Supermallet's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: Termite Terrace
Posts: 54,156
I had a Muslim roommate once, and I know Muslims have to pray five times a day, but I think he added a few in just to piss me off, because when he prayed I had to turn off my music or a movie or the sink (if I was doing dishes) or anything that made noise. Furthermore, if I wasn't in the room (this was a dorm, so no separate bedrooms) when he started praying, I couldn't go in until he was done. Lame, lame, lame. That's my long way of saying I don't think this should be allowed.

On the plus side, he couldn't stand all the noise I made anyway (you know, like breathing and turning the pages of books as I read), so he moved in to a single in spring term, and they never moved in another person, so I got the double entirely to myself.
Supermallet is offline  
Old 04-15-04, 01:44 AM
  #28  
DVD Talk Godfather
 
DVD Polizei's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Posts: 52,455
Can't they watch a video or something? I can't do anything 5 times a day.
DVD Polizei is offline  
Old 04-15-04, 08:35 AM
  #29  
DVD Talk Ultimate Edition
 
Join Date: Sep 1999
Location: Rochester, NY USA
Posts: 4,956
Originally posted by Bandoman
How is that different from church bells?
very good point. I have noisy church bells in my area.
mmconhea is offline  
Old 04-15-04, 08:39 AM
  #30  
Moderator
 
Jadzia's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 1999
Location: Michigan
Posts: 15,799
Hamtramck is an interesting community because traditionally it was a very old town and mostly Polish. In the last several years though many new immigrants have moved there, many from Pakistan and Bangladesh. So now you can buy both Paczkis and Pooris there. I could see where a conflict like this could arise.
Jadzia is offline  
Old 04-21-04, 10:24 AM
  #31  
DVD Talk Hero
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: MI
Posts: 25,052
Surprisingly, the city council passed this unanimously last night. Our local TV news covered the public comments and it seemed like most of the residents opposed it. I wonder how many council members will win reelection, next term. The "informal poll" by the tv news channel is running 88%-12% against the decision.

I think the 6 AM and 10 PM calls are going to really piss people off. The others might not be that intolerable, but I think this will cause some very hard feelings.

http://www.clickondetroit.com/news/3026297/detail.html
Hamtramck Residents To Hear Prayer Broadcasts
Issue Sparks Heated Debate Among Residents

POSTED: 9:13 am EDT April 21, 2004
UPDATED: 9:43 am EDT April 21, 2004

Hamtramck residents will soon be hearing a Muslim call to prayer five times a day following a unanimous vote by the City Council Tuesday night.

The issue of sending out the prayer on a loudspeaker in the city sparked a heated debate among residents.

"If you guys think about it, the Muslim call to prayer is actually a beautiful thing," an unidentified man who supported the issue said during the City Council meeting.

Some residents are opposed to the call to prayer, saying it gives state sponsorship of a religion and it lifts Islam above all other religions in Hamtramck, Local 4 reported.

"I would say that is a distortion," Hamtramck City Councilwoman Karen Majewski said. "We worked very hard to craft this ordinance in such a way that it would cover all means of religious expression."

Resident Maria Radtke called it "one big mess."

"There'll be no peace as far as I'm concerned," Radtke said.

Resident Bob Golen also opposes the call to prayer. He said he is a Christian and does not believe in the tenants of the Muslim faith.

Majewski said the ordinance will allow the city "a way to deal with all religions, not simply the Muslim call to prayer."

The councilwoman also said the amendment to the noise ordinance passed by the City Council "gives us the flexibility to adjust the number of speakers, the direction of the speakers, the level of loudness. So that will all depend on the community response, on the particular neighborhood that the mosque may be in, because we have several mosques, and the particularities of each case."

City Council members may have voted to allow the daily prayer, but they have not yet set a decibel level for the mosques. The council will make the decision at a meeting next week.

The calls are expected to begin in May with broadcasts between the hours of 6 a.m. and 10 p.m.


As for complaints of the noise pollution created by the call to prayer, Majewski said there are other noise issues because Hamtramck is an urban city.

"We have a lot of noise on our streets," Majewski said.

She said there is flexibility within the ordinance to deal with all of the noise problems such as cars, trains and noisy neighbors.

"This ordinance gives us a way, a mechanism, by which to deal with these complaints," Majewski said.
OldDude is offline  
Old 04-21-04, 10:31 AM
  #32  
DVD Talk God
 
kvrdave's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 1999
Location: Pacific NW
Posts: 86,201
Stupid.

Glad I don't live there.
kvrdave is offline  
Old 04-21-04, 10:48 AM
  #33  
Banned
 
Join Date: Jan 2000
Location: Democratik People's Republik of Kalifornia
Posts: 22,995
"If you guys think about it, the Muslim call to prayer is actually a beautiful thing," an unidentified man who supported the issue said during the City Council meeting.

Ummmmmmm.... no
Myster X is offline  
Old 04-21-04, 11:56 AM
  #34  
bhk
DVD Talk Legend
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: May 1999
Location: Right of Atilla The Hun
Posts: 19,749
Some enterprising person might set up a microphone next to the loud speakers and then have a wireless speaker set-up across the streat from all of the city council members home. Other things that can be done is to record the Sunday service and play it so that everyone outside can hear.
bhk is offline  
Old 04-21-04, 12:17 PM
  #35  
DVD Talk Hero
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: East County
Posts: 33,302
Every church/mosque/temple in the city is going to be using loud-speakers soon...I see this ordinance being over-turned by the end of the year.
B.A. is offline  
Old 04-21-04, 12:18 PM
  #36  
Moderator
 
nemein's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 1999
Location: 1bit away from total disaster
Posts: 34,141
Other things that can be done is to record the Sunday service and play it so that everyone outside can hear.
I suspect that'll be next... Christian congregations setting up loudspeakers and broadcasting their entire service.
nemein is offline  
Old 04-21-04, 12:26 PM
  #37  
DVD Talk Hero
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: MI
Posts: 25,052
Originally posted by bhk
Some enterprising person might set up a microphone next to the loud speakers and then have a wireless speaker set-up across the streat from all of the city council members home. Other things that can be done is to record the Sunday service and play it so that everyone outside can hear.
I'm no expert, but I believe the mosque's "Sunday service" is on Friday.
OldDude is offline  
Old 04-21-04, 01:01 PM
  #38  
bhk
DVD Talk Legend
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: May 1999
Location: Right of Atilla The Hun
Posts: 19,749
I'm no expert, but I believe the mosque's "Sunday service" is on Friday.
I'm talking about a church's Sunday service.
bhk is offline  
Old 04-21-04, 01:10 PM
  #39  
DRG
DVD Talk Legend
 
Join Date: Aug 1999
Location: ND
Posts: 13,417
What is the range of these speakers? How are they going to reach all the way across the town to each of its member's homes, unless it's REALLY frickin' loud? In which case it would be REALLY REALLY loud if you live close to it.
DRG is offline  
Old 04-21-04, 01:11 PM
  #40  
Moderator
 
nemein's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 1999
Location: 1bit away from total disaster
Posts: 34,141
Out of curiosity does anyone know when these 5 times are? I was looking around for a quick reference and while finding plenty of things that said 5 times a day, none of them said when specifically these 5 times are
nemein is offline  
Old 04-21-04, 01:16 PM
  #41  
DVD Talk Hall of Fame
 
Join Date: Jul 1999
Location: Texas
Posts: 7,759
Well, I bet two of them are at 6:00 AM and 10:00 PM.
shaun3000 is offline  
Old 04-21-04, 01:30 PM
  #42  
DVD Talk Hero
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: MI
Posts: 25,052
Originally posted by nemein
Out of curiosity does anyone know when these 5 times are? I was looking around for a quick reference and while finding plenty of things that said 5 times a day, none of them said when specifically these 5 times are
I perhaps don't understand what I'm reading, but they have to be calculated for each date.
http://prayer.al-islam.com/default.a...ng&countflag=0

I tried filling in form for Detroit and there are six not five,
Dawn, Sunrise, Noon (actually time of transit) afternoon, sunset and night
OldDude is offline  
Old 04-21-04, 01:31 PM
  #43  
Banned
 
Join Date: Jan 2000
Location: Democratik People's Republik of Kalifornia
Posts: 22,995
1. 6:00AM
2. 10:00AM
3. 2:00PM
4. 6:00PM
5. 10:00PM

I'm guessing the interval is 4 hours.
Myster X is offline  
Old 04-21-04, 01:32 PM
  #44  
DVD Talk Gold Edition
 
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: QC, CA
Posts: 2,718
Originally posted by nemein
Out of curiosity does anyone know when these 5 times are? I was looking around for a quick reference and while finding plenty of things that said 5 times a day, none of them said when specifically these 5 times are
http://www.islamicfinder.org/prayerD...ntry=usa&lang=
nomaan is offline  
Old 04-21-04, 01:37 PM
  #45  
bhk
DVD Talk Legend
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: May 1999
Location: Right of Atilla The Hun
Posts: 19,749
I see six on that site, the first one being 4:45 am. Boy, I'd be pissed if I lived near there.
bhk is offline  
Old 04-21-04, 02:13 PM
  #46  
DVD Talk Hero
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: MI
Posts: 25,052
Another link explaining the calculation in terms of astronomy
http://www.ummah.net/astronomy/saltime/

I believe the five prayers are
1) morning: from twilight to sunrise, which explains why my earlier link shows six times (nomaan: help out here, not sure I understand this correctly)
2) mid-day, as the trailing edge of the sun transits due south
3) afternoon. Two methods, the shadow of a stick is longer than the shadow of the stick at noon by either one or two stick lengths
4) sunset
5) end of evening twilight
For the two twilights, there is some debate about how far below the horizon the sun is. Astronomers define civil, 6°; nautical, 12°; astronomical, 18° Islam uses a variety of conventions mostly between nautical and astronomical twilight. You apparently have to be an astronomer to pray properly.

Morning and evening twilight are very early and very late in Detroit in the summer. I'd be way pissed if anybody was making a lot of noise.
OldDude is offline  
Old 04-21-04, 02:29 PM
  #47  
DVD Talk God
 
kvrdave's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 1999
Location: Pacific NW
Posts: 86,201
Originally posted by Myster X
1. 6:00AM
2. 10:00AM
3. 2:00PM
4. 6:00PM
5. 10:00PM

I'm guessing the interval is 4 hours.
After checking your math, I would agree that it appears that way.
kvrdave is offline  
Old 04-21-04, 02:41 PM
  #48  
DVD Talk Limited Edition
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Malvern, PA
Posts: 5,013
We'll have to check back on this story in May when this begins.

I give it 3 weeks.
Goldblum is offline  
Old 04-21-04, 03:47 PM
  #49  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Syracuse, NY
Posts: 621
What have they done up to now? Why is it such a "religious emergency"?

When it's something like "the Christians can have their bells, what do we get", it just sounds like they're being babies.

Now if it was a threat to their religion I could understand, but they get by just fine without it. I have a Muslim co-worker that just puts his walkman on and does his thing. Seems simple enough to me. Doesn't disturb anyone and does what he wants to do.

I don't know... seems like they need pacifiers more than loudspeakers.
Bechman 2000 is offline  
Old 04-21-04, 04:22 PM
  #50  
DVD Talk Hero
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: MI
Posts: 25,052
At Nomaan's link above, I found an annual schedule for New York City. Detroit, based on longitude is almost exactly 30 minutes later for all "sun times." The New York times for March 21, June 22, Sep 22, Dec 21 to show the variation through the year are
(times are given as morning twilight, sunrise, midday, afternoon, sunset, evening twilight:

March 4:44, 6:00, 12:04, 3:30, 6:08, 7:24 EST
June 3:36, 5:25, 12:58, 4:58, 8:31, 10:11 EDT
Sept 5:30, 6:43, 12:49, 4:14, 6:55, 8:08 EDT
Dec 5:55, 7:16, 11:54, 2:14, 4:32 5:54 EST
(Remember Detroit is 30 min, later.)
OldDude is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Archive Advertising Cookie Policy Privacy Statement Terms of Service

Copyright 2018 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.