Labor

Its definitely all time material imo.

Cherub Rock is one of all time greatest rock album intros too. Guitar solo in Soma is also one of the all time greats to me.

LiquidSky

I went ahead and pre-ordered "Siamese Dream" too.

starseed1981

Both have been pre-ordered. Yay!

DVD Josh

Give Machina another ride. You may appreciate it more with some perspective.

starseed1981

I would actually say wait for the new remastering. Machina's wall of sound production and lack of editing really hurt it imho. If you take that album and subtract "Glass And The Ghost Children", "The Crying Tree Of Mercury" and "Blue Skies Bring Tears" while adding "Let Me Give The World To You" you have an awesome album.

UAIOE

I might give "Machina" a chance if it is done in a sound similar to that of "Machina 2".

Machina was just too over-processed/over-done.

superdeluxe

Just pre-ordered both. Not to bad 6 discs of content for less than 50 dollars, and its albums that I actually like/needed to replacae.

Isn't Machina 2 getting a reissue?

Hiro11

Both are amazing albums. Also, Gish needed remastering badly. I love the hyper-compressed Butch Vig 90s sound of SD, though... hopefully they avoid brickwalling it.

UAIOE

$50 for these two albums is a far better deal than $120 for that "Nevermind- Super Duper Awesome Wow Edition".

I believe its gonna be a double barrel shot of Machina + Machina 2 as a single "album".

I'm not sure how I'd feel as it being the "intended" double album. Machina 2 had some choice stuff, but I recall it having quite a few "variations" of songs.

starseed1981

Machina II is actually one album and three EPs (I believe thats the variations mentioned above). I've always wanted a properly mastered version of "Home".

sb5

Yeah, the 14 tracks on the two LP's of the leak are considered the actual Machina II, and the 11 other tracks that were on the 3 EP's were considered B-sides/extras.

Labor

edit: nm

UAIOE

I've always had "Machina 2" as one whole lumped together album.

I never really thought of it as a CD and EP's, just that all this was supposed to be "Machina 2".

There was still some choice stuff to be had in that lumped together collection.

woofman

Gish & Siamese Dream, my two favorite Pumpkins albums, can't wait! I remember how blown away I was at it's sound when SD came out, such a huge, thick, luscious wave of distortion. I'm very curious to see how they've improved upon the original.

gerrythedon

Hiro11

I heard an interview with Butch Vig about making SD on Sound Opinions a couple of months ago. It sound basically like torture: thousands of takes of tiny guitar parts, a crackhead of a drummer, pissed-off band mates leaving in disgust as a perfectionist, dictatorial, egomaniac asshole of a band leader tried to sieze absolute control, tons of tape gone to waste, endless mixing sessions etc, etc. It's amazing the album turned out so well. Vig said that most tracks have at least twenty overdubbed guitar parts.

woofman

That doesn't surprise me in the least. Funny how from all that ugly discord came a product of such sonic beauty.

Spiderbite

I just placed my pre-order at Amazon for both. Both are down to $22.74 each. Excellent deal!

superdeluxe

Ship date November 29th. I can't wait.

Randy Miller III

Anyone heard either of these yet and can comment on the remastering?
I've got "Siamese Dream" arriving in the mail but I probably won't get to spin it until later this week.

superdeluxe

I might have some thoughts soon:

Tracking Information:
Status: In transit
Ship Carrier: UPS


Long live amazon prime!

Labor

I got both sets today

Popped in Siamese Dream in my car and listened to Cherub Rock and Rocket. Sounds excellent so far.

brokenhanger

I got my sets last night and have spent a good chunk of time listening to them.

First thoughts: the boxes are beautiful and the presentation on the 'Siamese Dream' vinyl is just stunning. (Couldn't find 'Gish' locally - why you'd stock one but not the other is beyond me.) I know a few people who weren't going to get the LPs because they had original pressings but, especially after holding one in my hands, that's a mistake. They both deserve a spot on a fan's shelf.

Haven't listened to 'Gish' proper yet but the bonus disc is a blast. The new mix of "Starla" is a monster. The acoustic demos of "Smiley" and "Blue" are great to have, even if they are presented on the disc in the wrong order. (At the beginning of "Blue", you can hear Billy say "that was 'Smiley'", yet "Smiley" follows it on the disc.) A lot of this material has been floating around for years but it's nice to have it all cleaned up. I personally would have preferred the alternate version of "Honeyspider" to the rawked out version and would gladly have traded the un-touched Peel Sessions of "Siva" and "Girl Named Sandoz" for a few other remastered demos - "Daughter", perhaps? - but those are small nit picks. (The complete lack of anything from the self-titled and 'Moon' demos suggests we are actually getting those next year.)

'Siamese Dream' is fantastic. The album - which sounded just fine originally, let's be honest - has a bit more "oomph" to it. "Geek USA" and "Quiet" in particular are total kicks to the gut. I've read people saying that it's too harsh for them but I like it just fine. (There's no reason to replace your original disc, though, so it's more an added bonus than a real draw to the set.) The bonus disc, though, is AMAZING. The "Siamese Dream" demo is pretty much a completely different song and is the clear standout of both sets. The rough mix of "Apathy's Last Kiss" is the untouched original take of the released version - no tempo/pitch changes, extra stuff going on in the background, etc. Again, I would have ditched "Never Let Me Down" for something not so easily available - the fourth track from that BBC session, perhaps? I forget what it was...one of the singles - but a small nitpick. (Also, the 'Gish' disc is maxed out for time but there's still about five minutes to spare on this one. Surely there's something they could have put on it to fill it up.)

Anyways, it's hard to imagine being disappointed in these if you love the albums unless you're being incredibly nit-picky/overcritical or have unrealistic expectations of what a 2-disc reissue at standard retail should look like. (That's not to say I wouldn't love some Rhino Handmade-esuqe multi-disc set of backing tracks and unfinished outtakes and studio chatter, but that's just not going to happen.)

Labor

Yeah, the lack of pre 1990 stuff on Gish is kinda disappointing, and really only makes sense if Corgan is planning a release dedicated 100% to that. Which would be pretty amazing if so.

brokenhanger

My thought on that when the track lists were first announced was that there's SO MUCH pre-'Gish' stuff that didn't make it to the album demo stage - and so much actual 'Gish' stuff to choose from anyways - that it would short change both sides by trying to cram everything onto one disc. Finding out that a separate release is planned was great to hear, but even without that I'd prefer the disc we got than one trying to encompass both eras of the band, if you will.

It's also worth noting that the sample at the end of "Soma" has been removed, though I haven't heard of any official word on the subject. That's kind of a bummer.