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In Memoriam: Michael Jackson (1958-2009)

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In Memoriam: Michael Jackson (1958-2009)

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Old 06-26-09 | 11:21 AM
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re: In Memoriam: Michael Jackson (1958-2009)

I think he's going to be worth more dead than alive now. His family (including his brothers) won't have to worry about putting those reality shows and any tours together anymore...
Old 06-26-09 | 11:28 AM
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re: In Memoriam: Michael Jackson (1958-2009)

Originally Posted by kstublen
I imagine one of the reasons the last scandal made it to trial was because he couldn't afford (monetarily) to settle and because he was tired of people trying to make money by accusing him of things he didn't do.
For the record, he couldn't settle in the last trial because the charges were not a civil action, but rather criminal charges brought against him by the City of Santa Barbara and the state of California. You can't "settle" when criminal charges are brought against you.

While I've always suspected that he did victimize children, I have always felt a lot of anger toward the state prosecutors for spending our tax dollars going to trial when they didn't have evidence to convict. When the charges were first filed I was convinced the state would not be going forward with this unless they had the "smoking gun" (indisputable evidence of abuse)...but then they had nothing. What a waste of our money and resources.
Old 06-26-09 | 11:53 AM
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re: In Memoriam: Michael Jackson (1958-2009)

Regardless of the speculation regarding his personal life, he was a musical legend and one of the greatest performers of the 20th Century.

RIP MJ
Old 06-26-09 | 02:07 PM
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re: In Memoriam: Michael Jackson (1958-2009)

Originally Posted by Mabuse
For the record, he couldn't settle in the last trial because the charges were not a civil action, but rather criminal charges brought against him by the City of Santa Barbara and the state of California. You can't "settle" when criminal charges are brought against you.
I know you can't "settle" in a criminal trial. What I meant was that he didn't settle with the family beforehand. In the older lawsuit from the 90s he was going to be charged and prosecuted, but because he settled the state didn't have any evidence or any witnesses and thus had to drop the whole thing.

Last edited by kstublen; 06-26-09 at 02:10 PM.
Old 06-26-09 | 03:04 PM
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re: In Memoriam: Michael Jackson (1958-2009)

The very first influential documentary I ever saw:


For that, I have to thank you Mike.
Old 06-26-09 | 03:21 PM
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re: In Memoriam: Michael Jackson (1958-2009)

Originally Posted by Gunde
I agree with kstublen - never believed he was guilty, and I'm not even a fan.
But surely you would agree his preoccupation with little boys was a little... strange.
Old 06-26-09 | 03:27 PM
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re: In Memoriam: Michael Jackson (1958-2009)

RIP? as in rest in peace? The man paid $20 million to get buy the silence of the first child, you know the one who described what jackson's penis looked like. The man was a serial child predator and even his best friend from the late 80's early 90's Corey Feldman said he had done things with him to lead him to believe he was not innocent. Feldman said Jackson looked at a book of men and women's genitals with him when he was 13. Even worse, the pics supposedly were of STD covered genitals. I can't believe anyone would want to wish peace for a serial child molester who used the money from his music to pay off parents of molested children. This post doesn't even touch on the fact that he is a known drug addict and either committed suicide or ODed. What a role model.
Old 06-26-09 | 04:13 PM
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re: In Memoriam: Michael Jackson (1958-2009)

Most of the things I've read, mention that the evidence wasn't that great. No one described Jackson's privates accurately...Plus if you were a parent of a "victim", would you settle FOR MONEY? I know sure as hell, I wouldn't, I would want him behind bars. The fact that it's known that some of the parents were "shaking him down" makes me suspect of alot of the accusations. NOW, he could have been totally guilty, but no court convicted him of it, nor did any parent really fight him without money being involved.
Old 06-26-09 | 04:32 PM
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re: In Memoriam: Michael Jackson (1958-2009)

Originally Posted by Chrisedge
Most of the things I've read, mention that the evidence wasn't that great. No one described Jackson's privates accurately...Plus if you were a parent of a "victim", would you settle FOR MONEY? I know sure as hell, I wouldn't, I would want him behind bars. The fact that it's known that some of the parents were "shaking him down" makes me suspect of alot of the accusations. NOW, he could have been totally guilty, but no court convicted him of it, nor did any parent really fight him without money being involved.
In the first trial the boy did describe his penis down to very close detail. Remember he has this skin disorder that causes blotches and the very white face we see in the media is from the make up too. So given that the boy was able to very closely describe what his penis looked like was very strong evidence. Hence the $20 million to keep the kid from testifying. In the second trial, there were many issues, most revolving around the boys mom. She was a knuckle head on the stand and MJ was able to prove that he had been paying her bills and paying for her to go get body waxes and stuff like that. There was so much strange behavior on both sides that it seemed more like a circus than a court hearing.

As for if I would have taken the money, no way. However, he sought out these children and these families just like other serial criminals do. He hired private investigators to follow the families, and lets not forget that he had a long hallway that led only to his room and he had closed circuit surveillance for the hallway so he would know if anyone was getting close. Any body that thinks he was not molesting these kids is either way to naive or has some other problem. Nobody pays $20 million if they are innocent. Not to mention, Corey Feldman was one of his best friends and he admits he thought he did it after looking back at his childhood relationship with Jackson.
Old 06-26-09 | 05:03 PM
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re: In Memoriam: Michael Jackson (1958-2009)

If someone falsely accused me of molesting a little boy, I'll be goddamned if I'd pay out 20 million dollars in hush money. I'd fight the bastards 'til my dying breath to disprove their claims, and I'd cut off my right arm before I'd reward those lies with one red cent.
Old 06-26-09 | 06:07 PM
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re: In Memoriam: Michael Jackson (1958-2009)

Originally Posted by SkullOrchard
If someone falsely accused me of molesting a little boy, I'll be goddamned if I'd pay out 20 million dollars in hush money. I'd fight the bastards 'til my dying breath to disprove their claims, and I'd cut off my right arm before I'd reward those lies with one red cent.

As someone who likely hasn't been accused of such acts and likely doesn't have 20 million dollars, that's easy for you to sit there and say.

Seems to me that MJ with all of his known eccentricities was an easy mark for a family looking for a big payday.

Regardless, none of us know what actually happened. So how about we focus on what we do know about, his music and performances.
Old 06-26-09 | 06:27 PM
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re: In Memoriam: Michael Jackson (1958-2009)

Originally Posted by s}{ammer
Any body that thinks he was not molesting these kids is either way to naive or has some other problem. Nobody pays $20 million if they are innocent.
Just like no one claims the "5th" if they are innocent?

I know he behavoir was extremely strange, and it wouldn't surprise me in the least if he was guilty. However, a court never proved it, and there was lots of "issues" in the testimony.

That said, all of the freaky-ness takes nothing away from my enjoyment of the music and performances. I listened to the J5 this morning (I grew up listening to their early stuff and it still brings a smile to my face!)
Old 06-26-09 | 06:49 PM
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re: In Memoriam: Michael Jackson (1958-2009)

So my brother works in a music store, and he told me the "vultures were circling" all day in the Michael Jackson section. He further relayed that he couldn't remember the last time someone actually bought an MJ release in months, but today they nearly sold out of everything they had on hand.

Isn't it amazing, and a bit sad, that nothing sells quite like death in the entertainment world? I'll never quite understand that phenomenon.
Old 06-26-09 | 06:56 PM
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re: In Memoriam: Michael Jackson (1958-2009)

Originally Posted by Hixx
As someone who likely hasn't been accused of such acts and likely doesn't have 20 million dollars, that's easy for you to sit there and say.

Seems to me that MJ with all of his known eccentricities was an easy mark for a family looking for a big payday.

Regardless, none of us know what actually happened. So how about we focus on what we do know about, his music and performances.
We do know that Jackson was a grown man who routinely brought little boys into bed with him. If your average Joe behaved in such a manner, he would have no defenders. Why should Michael Jackson receive special consideration? I refuse to be blinded by his celebrity, and I refuse to defend the indefensible.
Old 06-26-09 | 07:07 PM
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re: In Memoriam: Michael Jackson (1958-2009)

Originally Posted by SkullOrchard
We do know that Jackson was a grown man who routinely brought little boys into bed with him. If your average Joe behaved in such a manner, he would have no defenders. Why should Michael Jackson receive special consideration? I refuse to be blinded by his celebrity, and I refuse to defend the indefensible.
well he's not the average joe though. he is an abnormal weirdo who wanted to be peter pan.

if he had a kid in his bed and then molested the kid *that* would be "normal". why else would an adult male have a child not related to him in his bed? because he is a molestor and fits the profile.

but michael jackson was not normal. that's why he openly admits he had kids in his bed too.

Last edited by Rubix; 06-26-09 at 07:09 PM.
Old 06-27-09 | 12:37 AM
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re: In Memoriam: Michael Jackson (1958-2009)

Most people don't know about the, "Private investigators," hired by Jackson's attorney to scare and intimidate his accusers and their families. They would follow them night and day and do everything they could to scare them. These stories were confirmed, but never got much press.

Innocent people don't do that. Witness intimidation is a tactic of the mafia and gang bangers, not innocent victims of false accusations.

There were too many stories from unrelated people that had too much in common to be conicidentally close fabrications.

Jackson also had the best defense money could buy - and was fortunate to be prosecuted by a barely competent D.A. nearing retirement who was WAY out of his league in going up against high priced attorneys. He didn't stand a chance.

I have no doubt that Jackson was guilty - just like O.J. and Robert Blake were guilty. They all got away with it because of their money and fame (and piss poor prosecutors going after them - there's a reason those people are with the D.A.'s office - they can't get high priced jobs as defense attorneys because they aren't good enough).
Old 06-27-09 | 05:43 AM
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re: In Memoriam: Michael Jackson (1958-2009)

Claiming the 5th is much different than paying $20 million to have the witness refuse to testify. One means you do not want to incriminate yourself, the other means you do not want the witness to incriminate you because you are guilty.

Anyone who bought his music and continued to support his career should realize where he got that $20 million to buy the silence of the first child.

Corey Feldman, one of Jackson's closest friends, admitted that looking back at his relationship with Jackson there was inappropriate behavior by Jackson when Feldman was underage.
Old 06-27-09 | 08:53 AM
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re: In Memoriam: Michael Jackson (1958-2009)

Might as well tell my insane Michael Jackson encounter.

In early 2002, I was working as a manager at an EB Games in south Florida. An 11 year old boy and a man in a wheelchair came in. My coworker helped the boy pick out video games while the wheelchaired man parked in front of the counter where I was standing. He had giant sunglasses, a ball cap pulled down low, and a sweater jacket zipped up to his chin, as well as a blanket. I was minding my own business when he started having arm spasms and knocking items off my counter. I tried to ignore it and work on some paperwork. Meanwhile, a 50ish man in shorts and tshirt comes in. I ask if I can help, he says "I'm just waiting on them". Soon after a few little kids come in and hand papers and pens to the man in the wheelchair, who silently signs them. The olderman whips out a walkie talkie and says "we have a possible situation". Now more and more people start gathering into my store. I still have no idea what is going on. The 11 year old brings up a stack of about $300 in videogames and asks if we can ring it up fast. At this point, you can hear people outside go "It's Micheal!". It suddenly dawns on me who's sitting 3 feet in front of me. Some suited security guards show up and he is quickly whisked away. They paid cash and did not want their change.

I've always been amazed mostly by the fact that Jackson would go out in public in disguise as a man afflicted with a type of illness that would make people uncomfortable, and thus unlikely to pay close attention to him.

As a postscript, a day later he was at a mall north of us dressed in a much less subtle Spiderman costume. He was asked to leave the mall.
Old 06-27-09 | 09:04 AM
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re: In Memoriam: Michael Jackson (1958-2009)

Originally Posted by s}{ammer
Claiming the 5th is much different than paying $20 million to have the witness refuse to testify. One means you do not want to incriminate yourself, the other means you do not want the witness to incriminate you because you are guilty.
See, that is where you are wrong. I know it is an entirely different ballpark, but people do this sort of thing all the time when they pay fines for traffic violations, even if they believe they haven't done anything wrong.

If you get pulled over and have to pay a $180 speeding ticket and you know you weren't speeding, you may want to go to court and fight it. But in some jurisdictions, you might have to pay court costs if you lose and you have to take work off to appear in court; all of this means you might lose even more than the $180, so you bite the bullet and just pay the ticket.

Settling is especially prevalent in celebrities and big companies. People want to believe that because they settle they are guilty; we don't like the idea of someone making a claim and then someone "buying" their silence. However, that isn't always the case. If you are a celebrity or a big company that depends upon public support, you may realize that while millions of dollars is a lot, if you did go to trial, even if you weren't guilty, the bad press might cost you more than that in the long run. There have been countless celebrities (and even your average citizen) who has been charged with a crime they did not commit, prosecuted, and found not guilty. One would hope that would be the end of it and all would go back to normal. That, however, is not the case; even after being found not guilty people may be treated as though they really were guilty all along.

So yes, some people settle because they know they are guilty. But there are also those who settle because financially it is a better decision and it may help to prevent irreparable damage to their reputation.
Old 06-27-09 | 10:42 AM
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re: In Memoriam: Michael Jackson (1958-2009)

One of the greatest musical talents the world has ever seen. From "Beat It" to "Billie Jean" to "Thriller" Michael Jackson has some of the greatest hits ever. Michael Jackson could dance and put on a show like no other. He just had such great talent. There's so many Michael Jackson songs I love (like the ones I mentioned above) which include "Black or White", "Scream" and of course "ABC" and "Rockin' Robin" with the Jackson 5.

RIP Michael Jackson

Last edited by nateman; 06-28-09 at 10:17 AM.
Old 06-27-09 | 11:37 AM
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re: In Memoriam: Michael Jackson (1958-2009)

I don't care for his music, but can easily see the impact he has had on artists to this day. Even if I did like his tunes, he's been so far removed from music, that I would have felt he died years ago.

Death is rarely a good thing, though.
Old 06-27-09 | 12:25 PM
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re: In Memoriam: Michael Jackson (1958-2009)

well, i did my 6.5 mile walk today shuffling just my MJ folder (52 songs). it was very nice. all the music stations have his videos on all day which i will watch as well.
Old 06-27-09 | 12:53 PM
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re: In Memoriam: Michael Jackson (1958-2009)

Originally Posted by scott1598
all the music stations have his videos on all day which i will watch as well.
The media continuing to celebrate the life of a pedophile. How nice.

I would just hope that someday some perspective is applied to his life, but I would imagine that his handlers and family members will do everything they can to paint his life in the rosiest of colors. His album sales have shot through the roof and they want to keep it that way. There's money in it for a lot of people if the dark side of his life is glossed over.

Last edited by B5Erik; 06-27-09 at 01:49 PM.
Old 06-27-09 | 01:10 PM
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re: In Memoriam: Michael Jackson (1958-2009)

Originally Posted by B5Erik
The media continuing to celebrate the life of a pedohpile.
prove it.
Old 06-27-09 | 01:58 PM
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re: In Memoriam: Michael Jackson (1958-2009)

Originally Posted by scott1598
prove it.
He did. Paying off families of victims. Hiring thugs to intimidate witnesses. Putting his bedroom down a very long hallway that had sensors and cameras so that he'd know when someone was coming. Individually, none of those things prove anything, but put together they show a pattern and paint the very clear picture of a guilty man.

Add in the multiple witnesses, stories from victims (who never met each other) matching up on Michael's M.O. - and even Corey Feldman coming out and saying that Jackson showed him some inappropriate pictures and asked him inappropriate questions - and you have evidence beyond reasonable doubt that he was guilty. (People are convicted on circumstantial evidence every day - sometimes that's the only kind of evidence available, but it doesn't make the defendant any less guilty.) There was also direct testimony from the victims to add to the mix. He was guilty.

If he were not a near billionaire he would have been sent to prison. But like O.J. and Robert Blake his fame and fortune spared him that fate.

(And another thing to consider - the prosecutor in his Santa Barbara case was an old man near retirement who was way, way out of his league in going up against the best lawyers money could buy. He had ZERO experience in high profile cases and was clearly outmatched by the high priced defense team. A younger prosecutor, more experienced with high profile cases, might have gotten a conviction.)


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