And what I'm saying is that when you compare Winger to bands in the same Metal sub-genre (Pop Metal - Warrant, Poison, Europe, Danger Danger, Firehouse, etc) they are the best of that particular bunch.

I once got a signed picture from the band Winger about 20 years ago at a local carnival then I threw it out[they weren't well known when I got it].

Faint praise indeed. I remember a few years ago Kip Winger did a brief acoustic show at the book store I was working for. There were a grand total of two people in the audience: the woman who had booked the event, and a homeless man wearing a trashbag instead of pants. I felt somewhat sorry for the guy.

I'd feel bad for a guy with trashbag pants too...

He seemed like a pretty happy fellow - when he wasn't busy watching Kip Winger concerts, he spent most of his time chugging Listerine and perusing the Erotica section.

Question here. I recently found a cd of Wingers 3rd? album from 1993 called "Pull" for 25 cents in my local used cd stores bargin bin. After much deliberation I pulled the trigger and bought it. I cant really seem to get into it. Does anyone remember what the singles or promoted songs from this record were? Any opinions on this album would be appreciated.

Down Incognito..........................................................................Junkyard Dog
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Pull is generally considered to be the best Winger album (the least "Poppy" of the bunch, where they backed off the use of keyboards and used acoustic guitars for texture instead).

I would say it's also the best produced of all the Winger albums.

Down Incognito was well worth the 25 cents. Enjoy that song, and at worst, consider it a 25-cent CD single.

even tho I'm not a Winger fan, I did feel a little sorry for them during the "Pull" era. I remember MTV and radio playing Down Incognito a bit during that summer and then Stewart was introduced on Beavis And Butt-Head and suddenly all airplay that song was getting came to an abrupt stop.

From Wiki (so grain of salt):

Criticism
Winger was the subject of constant ridicule in MTV's animated series Beavis and Butt-head during the mid 1990s. The neighbor boy Stewart, who was always trying to be accepted by Beavis and Butt-head, was usually depicted wearing a Winger T-shirt, as opposed to the heavier Metallica and AC/DC shirts worn by the title characters. Beavis and Butt-head thought of them as "wussies". According to the documentary Taint of Greatness: Part 2 on the Mike Judge Collection Volume 2 DVD, this was due to Winger telling MTV he would not let the show make fun of him. This has been cited as a reason for the band losing popularity.

About this same time, Lars Ulrich of the band Metallica could be seen throwing a dart on a poster of Kip Winger in the video for "Nothing Else Matters". When asked about this, Kip Winger once stated: "Our band was known to musicians, and a lot of musicians showed up to see me play - watching trying to figure out how I'm playing - we were like the 'hair band' [version of] Dream Theater -- That is why it's the great irony that we ended up on that geeky guy's shirt on Beavis & Butthead, because Metallica couldn't play what we play, they couldn't do it, they literally - technically couldn't do it. And I'll fucking challenge those chumps to a fight any day of the week, but we could play their music with our hands tied behind our back. And so, I was a little t'd off about that, but in the end, none of that shit matters..."[4]

While Kip Winger claims the criticism does not matter, Rob Zombie has a different story. Zombie told Mike Judge, creator of Beavis and Butt-head, that while Zombie was in Tokyo, he found Kip Winger in a bar crying and claiming that Mike Judge ruined his career

See, I wouldn't even include Warrant and Poison in the same sub genre. They'd be more in the 'glam' metal (if you will) camp, along with Motley Crue - with Poison being watered down Motley Crue, and Warrant being watered down Poison, on top of that.

As you said, there was far more musicianship going on with Winger. I'd throw them more in the Melodic rock group with the likes of Mr. Big, Extreme, Saigon Kick, Steelheart, Bad English...etc.

Well, musically (taking image out of the picture altogether), Warrant, Poison, Europe, Firehouse, Danger Danger, Mr. Big, Extreme, etc, all kind of fit together - and that's where I'd put Winger. Winger's got more substance than a lot of those bands, and their musicianship was outstanding.

And any band with a guy from the Dixie Dregs has to have some redeeming qualities...

While that's funny it's pretty ridiculous if true.

Now, Rod Morgenstein is a fantastic drummer (ex-Dixie Dregs, etc.), but I don't know if he could cop some of the heavier Metallica songs. Then again, Lars couldn't either at the time.

Could Kirk play some of Reb's solos? Probably not, but it's apples and oranges with them.

Bass-wise, I liked Kip's bass parts (being a bass player myself), but even Newsted was a better player in my opinion.

And as far as being the "Dream Theater" of hair bands, I think I'd give that to Mr. Big or Extreme before Winger.

Oh and in response to a reply above, I was a HUGE thrash fan and played in thrash bands and still liked stuff like Winger once in a while. I guess I was the oddball.

I fell like no one's quite getting me on this, so I'll just say it again to be clearer on how I feel about them. Winger = good band. Not great, but they don't suck either. As musicians, all talented. As people - and yes, I have met them, more than once - Kip = could be a prima donna, but otherwise, mostly o.k., everyone else in the band = very cool. Do I enjoy listening to them? Sure, but not something I do very often anymore.

I always thought Winger were pretty good. I actually had a chance to go see them in concert back when Kiss & Slaughter were also playing but a damn snow storm hit so I couldn't