Julie Walker

For the final day of History of Rock n Roll class. My group must do a 15 minute presentation on Madonna. The final is on December 15th.

And so far the group has not been reliable outside of class. They don't have email to keep in touch and mail materials quickly back and forth. And so far have not been around when I called,nor have they replied to my messages. So it's quite frustrating,as I'm swamped with other class work to study. And this class is an every other Saturday morning class. So I don't see the people in class until the next class session.

Anyway, since there is so much about Madonna and her career. It's pretty tough to narrow down and find one aspect/area to discuss for the presentation. Since she has a huge story,that spans decades and many issues. That you could talk for hours about her,and still barely scratch the surface.

I did have a potential idea of,how she survived the music business and lasted so long. Meanwhile other artists that also start at young ages like Britney Spears become washed up by their twenties.

Meanwhile the more obvious area to discuss. Is her confronting society bluntly about sexuality and gender. And how people react towards it and so forth. I'm a big fan of her late 80's-early 90's material, when I recall all the storm being made about her. And my family telling me to not listen to that 'garbage'.

But again,I'll need as many details for reference as possible. And that I am having a tough time locating. Since I find pages of materials with mostly generic bio material, and not much substance to use.

So what years,incidents,albums,songs and so forth should I mention and research?

Any links will be much appreciated!

nothingfails

I post over at MadonnaNation (forums.madonnanation.com), sign up there and a lot of people should be able to help you out

DaveWadding

Paging MM1...

pinata242

Too bad digitalfreaknyc isn't around to help out.

I like "Like a Prayer", but that's all the help I can offer.

uncle-frank

off the top of my head:

- you can say shes a powerful woman
- controversial (like a prayer, american life)
- still relevant today

Flashback

Just a question but the history of RnR Final is on Madonna? Does not make any sense at all.

pinata242

My guess is that there was a pool of artists/bands and the OP's group picked/drew/got-stuck-with Madonna. Each 15-minute presentation is likely different.

Flashback

I get that each group has a different topic - actually I am interested what the others topics are - but the history goes much deeper than Madonna. Maybe I do not understand the course.

Goat3001

IMO, if I were to sit through a presentation on Madonna this would be more interesting than this:

If I were the professor of that class I would rather hear about her survival in the business for 20 years than hear about how her music= her sexuality and gender. He's probably heard the latter everytime someone does a presentation on Madonna. I would also appreciate the fact that it took more work and insight on your part to present the first topic. BUT, I'm no professor.

I can also understand your desire to go the easier way considering your group has been flaking out on you. If I had a dime for everytime I did that in college I would have been able to pay tuition for another four years.

But if you do choose the first option here is what I would include:
1- Her music compared to other artists of the time. In the 80's compare her style of music to that of other female singers of the time. Do the same for the 90's and 00's. You'll see a clear difference in her music and how it appeals to the different generations. I'm not a big Madonna fan so I couldn't give you a timeline of songs but I'm sure a quick browse of her albums (sorted by year) will help you out.

2- Mention how she brought herself to the forefront in the MTV era. Her sexuality and gender would be mentioned here. Mention how she doesn't put out albums every year like other similar artists. She keeps herself fresh by not flooding the market with Madonna. Talk about how she has brought herself "back" so many times.

3- Talk about how she uses other media to make her music popular. Shes been on the Austin Powers 2 Soundtrack, Dick Tracy, Die Another Day and maybe others.

You shouldn't need a whole lot of sources if you present the material this way. You'll need track listings of her music and a few older articles from magazines like Rolling Stone. Fill the presentation up with a few clips of her videos and her music and this should easily make it to the 15 minute mark.

Hope this helps.

Flashback

Didn't she put out 8 albums in the 1st 10 years?

Goat3001

I don't know. I'm not Madonna fan but it seems in recent history she comes out only once in a while. She'll bust out an album, a single or two, a video and then leave for a little while. I'm sure if you're a Madonna fan you see her and hear from her more often but if you're just following mainstream music its not everyday like it is with Spears, Aguilera etc. She also doesn't have any reality shows about her nor is she in the face of the paparazzi all the time, relative to the competition.

Maybe she flooded the market in the early years to build a fan base and is now coming out only so often to build on the fan base and bring out her older fans? Like I said, I didn't do any research on it, its just something to consider when talking about how she isn't completely played after 20 years.

nothingfails

it's nice to see your music teacher is somewhat openminded to like artists like Madonna. Several years back in college, I took a "History of Rock And Roll" course as an easy-A and our teacher pretty much belittled Madonna the entire time he had to talk about her and I just rolled my eyes because it's obvious the guy was a rock snob. Same guy also attacked The Bee Gees as "some disco crap" also, when even the most casual of Bee Gees fans knows they were around for over ten years before Saturday Night Fever and were around long after disco faded, so why paint them in a box for one period in their career? So it's nice to see someone accept and admit that Madonna is one of the biggies even if dance-pop music isn't his thing.

Julie Walker

Exactly!

We were originally going with Bruce Springsteen and already brainstorming what to discuss. When the teacher asked us our choice and said it was already taken. So Madonna was one of few choices left,so we took it since we at least like some of her stuff and there is plenty to tackle with her.


I already have an A in the class. So not doing well on the presentation won't hurt me too much. But I would like to do my best on it. Though it pisses me off if the other group members don't contribute anything and get points while I did all the work.

dvduser6

"'I liked her early stuff like "Borderline", but when she went off on that "Papa Don't Preach" phase, I tuned out.'"

John Wielgosz

As far as published bios go, most are pretty generic, as you said, but I have a copy of this:

Desperately Seeking Madonna

It's a series of independent essays/analysis pieces on Madonna. Not all positive, mind you, but a much better place to start.

My personal choices for career interest points would be along the lines of:

Like A Virgin - 1984 (80's pop standard, sort of a "this is the way things could have gone" if she hadn't progressed and matured)

Like A Prayer - 1989 (peak artistic output of her 80's era, just before the 90's public backlash)

Erotica - 1992 (Remember that backlash I mentioned? A case of an album that was VERY unlike its predecessor and was unfairly mixed up with the 'Sex' book controversy of the time)

Ray of Light - 1998 (The beginning of the third age of Madonna. Her largest re-invention to date, and musically, the close sibling of 'Like A Prayer')

Confessions on a Dance Floor/Confessions Tour - 2005/2006. (A capper to her career so far, nearly 25 years in with another hit album and sold-out tour, when her contemporaries from the 80's are either retired or doing the nostalgia act circuit.)

I think her overall success is in her music's accessibility, not lowest common denominator, mind you, but dance/pop music that extends beyond her initial target audience.

I saw her live five times in summer '06, and the dynamic range of the audience always impressed myself. People ten-fifteen years older than myself (I'm 33), and people around the fifteen-twenty range, like her initial fanbase, who were just getting on board now. Contrast that with my experience on the Van Halen 2004 reunion tour, where I saw (for the most part), only people like myself and older, who were into them in high school or earlier.

Mabuse

Group project huh? Just get the group to perform this:

Mr. Brown: Let me tell you what 'Like a Virgin' is about. It's all about a girl who digs a guy with a big dick. The entire song. It's a metaphor for big dicks.

Mr. Blonde: No, no. It's about a girl who is very vulnerable. She's been fucked over a few times. Then she meets some guy who's really sensitive...

Mr. Brown: Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa... Time out Greenbay. Tell that fucking bullshit to the tourists.

Joe: Toby... Who the fuck is Toby? Toby...

Mr. Brown: 'Like a Virgin' is not about this nice girl who meets a nice fella. That's what "True Blue" is about, now, granted, no argument about that.

Mr. Orange: Which one is 'True Blue'?

Nice Guy Eddie: 'True Blue' was a big ass hit for Madonna. I don't even follow this Tops In Pops shit, and I've at least heard of "True Blue".

Mr. Orange: Look, asshole, I didn't say I ain't heard of it. All I asked was how does it go? Excuse me for not being the world's biggest Madonna fan.

Mr. Orange: Personally, I can do without her.

Mr. Blue: I like her early stuff. You know, 'Lucky Star', 'Borderline' - but once she got into her 'Papa Don't Preach' phase, I don't know, I tuned out.

Mr. Brown: Hey, you guys are making me lose my... train of thought here. I was saying something, what was it?

Joe: Oh, Toby was this Chinese girl, what was her last name?

Mr. White: What's that?

Joe: I found this old address book in a jacket I ain't worn in a coon's age. What was that name?

Mr. Brown: What the fuck was I talking about?

Mr. Pink: You said 'True Blue' was about a nice girl, a sensitive girl who meets a nice guy, and that 'Like a Virgin' was a metaphor for big dicks.

Mr. Brown: Lemme tell you what 'Like a Virgin' is about. It's all about this cooze who's a regular fuck machine, I'm talking morning, day, night, afternoon, dick, dick, dick, dick, dick, dick, dick, dick, dick.

Mr. Blue: How many dicks is that?

Mr. White: A lot.

Mr. Brown: Then one day she meets this John Holmes motherfucker and it's like, whoa baby, I mean this cat is like Charles Bronson in the 'Great Escape', he's digging tunnels. Now, she's gettin' the serious dick action and she's feeling something she ain't felt since forever. Pain. Pain.

Joe: Chew? Toby Chew?

Mr. Brown: It hurts her. It shouldn't hurt her, you know, her pussy should be Bubble Yum by now, but when this cat fucks her it hurts. It hurts just like it did the first time. You see the pain is reminding a fuck machine what it once was like to be a virgin. Hence, 'Like a Virgin'.

spammied

don't forget too, to add author to her career...she has written children's books....a different take besides the singing, movies, merchandising...etc...

Chrisedge

As a 43 year old husband that was mostly dragged into Madonna by my wife, this is a great post. I've always "watched" Madonnas career, and then started seeing her 2001, and after 2 shows she is absolutely a not miss performer. I've seen hundreds of different bands in concert and she is in the top 5 ever. Both times would probably be in the top ten.

joefrog91

This is actually a pretty good guideline. If you really want to go "way back", you can talk about how a teenage girl from Michigan went to New York, joined a band as a drummer (The Breakfast Club), became one of the vocalist, harassed a DJ in a club to play her tape (Everybody) and then got discovered. She has always been a woman that knows what she wants and has done whatever it took to get it. She is a very savvy businesswoman and knows how to market herself. Look at the extreme changes from Like a Virgin to True Blue to Live to Tell. She was always re-inventing herself.

John Wielgosz

Ah yes, 'Drowned World 2001'. I saw the first U.S. Date (Philadelphia - 7/21/01) and came out thinking 'Yep, I'm in all the way now.'

Hollowgen

www.allmusic.com is going to be one of your best friends in this venture.

ChristopherS

I have little desire to see anyone besides Madonna in concert.

MadonnasManOne

There is so much about Madonna that can be talked about. However, the most fascinating, to me, is the longevity of her career, and the fact that she has kept herself relevant through nearly three decades. When Madonna released her first single, the critics dismissed her, saying that she would have 15 minutes of fame, and then be gone. That was nearly 26 years ago. She has weathered all sorts of criticisms, many ups and downs, and just keeps on going. As many people as there are that like her, there are just as many who don't. However, she continues to succeed, despite those who would like to see her go away. She has a will that is stronger than most people. She has a desire to keep creating, even though she could simply retire, and never have to worry about money. She's extremely talented, because she creates from a place within her soul. Those who have worked with her say that she has an energy that doesn't stop. After seeing her on tour on two different occassions (the 'Drowned World Tour' and the 'Re-Invention Tour'), it is very obvious that she does have an unstoppable energy. She also has a very theatrical style when it comes to her live shows.

Pertaining to her longevity, it is interesting that she is one of only a handfull of artists who emerged during the 80's, who continues to create and release music that is successful. Sure, her music doesn't get the radio airplay that it did during the 80's, 90's and early 2000's. At least in America. However, even without radio airplay, she still has successful album sales, and plays to sold out audiences on her tours.

All of this, from a woman who was supposed to be a flash in the pan, according to the critics of the day, when she first emerged. The thing is, where are those critics now? They are either long gone, or still in denial that Madonna has never gone away.

ChristopherS

It's funny because you STILL see people writing that she is over. These articles have been written for 25 years now. It's rediculous. She will never stop and when she is gone she will live on like Elvis, Marilyn Monroe, etc.

[email protected]

MMO takes on the big question, which is why is Madonna so popular over the years when others have fallen by the wayside. I contend that it's a combination of talent and marketing/business acumen. Beyond the music (which I consider to be great pop music, even if its not really my style), she's an incredibly smart and driven business-woman.

Check out her private label of Maverick Music. This record company alone has a roster that contains acts like the Deftones, Alanis Morrisette, and Michelle Branch.

Add to that the information that she just signed a $100+ million dollar deal with LiveNation, and you can do a 15-minute presentation just on the business aspects of her career alone!