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Smashing Pumpkins: Zeitgeist - 7/7/07

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Smashing Pumpkins: Zeitgeist - 7/7/07

Old 07-16-07, 09:10 AM
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I picked up the Target edition Saturday and I've listened to it a couple of times. Its an OK album, far from their best (Siamese Dream) and far from their worst (Adore).

It doesn't feel like a Smashing Pumpkins album to me. I don't know how much replay it will have over the years.
Old 07-16-07, 10:54 AM
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Has this open-letter from Billy been posted? I went back several pages and didnt see it, so I'm posting it.

http://www.thestranger.com/seattle/Content?oid=262627

July 10, 2007

My Dear Friends,

Today is the greatest day you've ever known.

Seven years, seven months, and ten days ago, the clock struck midnight, 2000, and the world began turning faster. Back then, I disbanded the Smashing Pumpkins because the new millennium demanded it. A new age needed a new start—cleanliness and unity, not the confused, confusing wreck I let the band become.

We were once the most important band in the world, and everyone—me, you, Courtney Love—knew it. The Smashing Pumpkins drew the line between Black Sabbath, the Bee Gees, and the Cure, and that line caught a generation like a leash around a wayward puppy. We founded Alternative Nation, and the kids and advertisers flocked around. But because the band had become bloated, overbearing, headstrong, because it grew beyond my control, it had to die. I killed it before it killed me.

And now, after all those years of self-imposed obscurity, of forced poetry, of side projects mired in mediocrity and too many guitarists, I bring us, together, here, to the corner of Future Avenue and Now Street. This is our moment! This is our day! This is Zeitgeist! (That's "Spirit of the Age" in German. Trust me: I've read Hegel.)

This band has always been the headlight on the barreling locomotive of modern youth; with a title like Zeitgeist, nobody can argue. I brought back original Pumpkins drummer Jimmy Chamberlain—recovered and reverent of yours truly, he's the epitome of a new leaf turned over—plus another chick bassist and some new guitar guy. Zeitgeist (Say it! It feels good!) arrives this week, in four different forms: The Best Buy version is different from the Target version is different from the iTunes version, which is different from everyone else's version. Most zeits would've settled for a single geist, but ours demands more marketing strategies, so I offer it four.

As for the music, the critics won't get it. They never have. My old fans—the ones whose lives were changed by Gish and Siamese Dream—won't get it. They will complain that the sound is too dense, too severe, too, yes, overbearing. But the New Generation is the one I'm speaking to, the one that needs to know that My Chemical Romance and Panic! At the

Disco couldn't exist without me. Whether they want to know doesn't matter. This Zeitgeist is not consensual—it's here, whether you understand it or not.

Several weeks ago, I released "Tarantula" to prime the public for the coming onslaught. The song is the sound of one ego exploding (mine), the sound of an entire album in just one song. You'll like it because it has the same skyrocketing guitar riff as "Cherub Rock," and you liked "Cherub Rock" back in 1993. You still like it, because it is one of the best songs ever recorded. But now, instead of one guitar playing one riff, there are more—way more—guitars. And more riffs. It's awesome, in the original sense of the word. It might scare you.

Fear is the effect I'm going for. Fear and exhaustion. But "Tarantula" is not the scariest or most exhausting song on the album. That honor goes to "United States"—a triumphant teenage anthem that sounds like the closing solo of "War Pigs," refracted and stretched into nine minutes. Remember, I was subtle once: "Drown," from the Singles soundtrack, was haunting in its minimal, dissonant beauty. But the Zeitgeist has no time for subtlety, friends, and neither do you. Hence song titles like "United States" and "For God and Country" and "Pomp and Circumstance." Even more than you need more guitars, you need more meaning. And I bring it to you:

Dulcet tones whisper fast

Refuse your yearns, renounce the past

Rouse me soon, the end draws nigh

Whose side are you on

Your blood you cannot buy.

Revolution!

Revolution!

Revolution!

Yes! Zeitgeisty!

Every revolution needs a counterpoint, and that would be "Bring the Light," the one song with a discernable, singable hook, the one song that's remotely accessible. It's got a melody that burns with the same adolescent struggle as those Siamese Dream days. Naturally, it stands out: Hooks and singability are not really the zeitgeist. At least not this Zeitgeist.

Here is what you must understand: Nothing has changed since 1999, except my budget. And Pro Tools. I am still the same alt-rock messiah I was. You are still my teenage flock.

Trust me.

Your zero,
Billy Corgan
Old 07-16-07, 11:51 AM
  #303  
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Originally Posted by dolphinboy
Has this open-letter from Billy been posted? I went back several pages and didnt see it, so I'm posting it.
You actually think this is serious?
Old 07-16-07, 11:56 AM
  #304  
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Yeah, I call bullshit on this.
Old 07-16-07, 12:19 PM
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That latter has to be fake.
Billy always refers to himself in the third person.
Old 07-16-07, 12:43 PM
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Originally Posted by cerial442
I picked up the Target edition Saturday and I've listened to it a couple of times. Its an OK album, far from their best (Siamese Dream) and far from their worst (Adore).

It doesn't feel like a Smashing Pumpkins album to me. I don't know how much replay it will have over the years.

It is *unfathomable* to me that people consider 'Adore' the worst album. There are days when I find it to be the best (though generally I'll place it right below SD & MCIS), but it's really criminally underrated.

As for Zeitgeist, It's growing on me more and more with each listen.......I really love the track 'Zeitgeist' and 'Pomp and Circumstances' is wonderful.

-Paul Jacobi-
Old 07-16-07, 01:18 PM
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I too love Adore. It sounds so wounded and fragile, if a little bit long winded.

And yeah, I think it's a crime that the song "Zeitgeist" didn't make it on the album because it's stronger than a good chunk of it.
Old 07-16-07, 01:26 PM
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Originally Posted by LotusEater79
I'm a big fan of Adore as well. I love the songs Billy wrote about his mother as much as anything he has done.


As far as Zeitgeist goes, I'm really getting into it now. "That's the Way (My Love Is)" and "Pomp and Circumstances" are my two favorite tracks. "United States" is the only song I don't like enough to keep on my ipod.

I haven't heard "Stellar" yet, but here's my list from favorite to least favorite songs from Zeitgeist. I have always preferred Corgan's softer nostalgic, romantic and melancholic songs to his harder ones.

1. That's the Way (My Love Is)
2. Pomp and Circumstances
3. God and Country
4. Neverlost
5. Bring the Light
6. Zeitgeist
7. Starz
8. (Come On) Let's Go!
9. Tarantula
10. Bleeding the Orchid
11. Doomsday Clock
12. Shades of Black
13. United States
You should try and get the Tonight Tonight EP from the Aeroplane Box Set. Given the above, I think that you'd really like it.
Old 07-16-07, 01:32 PM
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I listened to Adore a couple of times, and just could not get into it. I was really glad they got back into their guitar oriented sound with Machina although that album left a lot to be desired as well.
Old 07-16-07, 01:52 PM
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Originally Posted by LotusEater79
I got that set when it came out. I do love the b-sides like "Meladori Magpie", "Rotten Apples", "Jupiter's Lament" and "Medellia of the Gray Skies".
I figured that you would. You should try and get the song "Siamese Dream" as well.

Also, have you sought out "Billy's Acoustic Demos" bootleg? Or the Gravity demos boot? I think you'd dig those as well.
Old 07-16-07, 02:29 PM
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The above letter is fake. Billy and Jimmy have gone to great lengths to tell people that there is no pro tools usage on the album...in fact, all the drum tracks are live takes with no edits.

Also, I am pretty sure if you take Neverlost, For God and Country, and United States off the album and add Zeitgeist, Death From Above, and Stellar you end up with a 4/5 album instead of a 3/5 album, which is what the standard edition of Zeitgeist is.

The more I listen to FGAC the more I hate it. The production is awful. The solo acoustic performances are okay, but could a song be more cliched?

Last edited by DamingR; 07-16-07 at 02:31 PM.
Old 07-16-07, 02:32 PM
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United States is my favorite song on the album. Death From Above is shit.
Old 07-16-07, 02:56 PM
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Originally Posted by Flashback
You actually think this is serious?
I didn't judge it nor the "publication" where it was posted. I merely posted it with a link to where it was found.
Old 07-16-07, 03:11 PM
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Originally Posted by dolphinboy
I didn't judge it nor the "publication" where it was posted. I merely posted it with a link to where it was found.
Makes no sense then - you are just promoting an 'onion article' of a non factual story.
Old 07-16-07, 04:22 PM
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Originally Posted by Artman
Is there anywhere to legally download the exclusive songs?

Itunes maybe? I know you can get stellar from there.
Old 07-16-07, 04:23 PM
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Originally Posted by dolphinboy
Has this open-letter from Billy been posted? I went back several pages and didnt see it, so I'm posting it.

It wasnt posted because it was satire, you didnt really think billy wrote that did you?
Old 07-16-07, 04:25 PM
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Originally Posted by DVD Josh
I figured that you would. You should try and get the song "Siamese Dream" as well.

Also, have you sought out "Billy's Acoustic Demos" bootleg? Or the Gravity demos boot? I think you'd dig those as well.

All of these can be found at the RSLPA
Old 07-16-07, 04:37 PM
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Originally Posted by superdeluxe
All of these can be found at the RSLPA
????? (Please post a link)
Old 07-16-07, 07:31 PM
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Originally Posted by superdeluxe
It wasnt posted because it was satire, you didnt really think billy wrote that did you?
Why wouldn't someone post satire about Billy in a Smashing Pumpkins thread?

I'm not a big fan. I saw that article, looked for it about 5 pages back, and didn't see it.

I know nothing about the writing style of Billy Corgan. Maybe he's a dick or maybe he's trying to be funny.

I merely posted something that seemed interesting to me for discussion here.
Old 07-16-07, 09:59 PM
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Originally Posted by DVD Josh
????? (Please post a link)

http://rspaa.niluje.net/data/

Nothing commerically avaiable ....but everything a fans dreams awaits..gravity demos, SD demos, Adore demos, Mashed potatoes etc etc etc

The band has really been open in regards of its demos and stuff circulating. The last great 'egg' was Mashed potatoes being released to the community. That thing was beyond rare (only 10 copies we're made..and personally given to friends as christmas presents)

Lots of good stuff there.
Old 07-16-07, 10:00 PM
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A handy little chart/graph for those that want to know what the band has played

Smashing Pumpkins Library of Songs played (Total)

Paris:

United States
Today
Stand Inside Your Love
Bleeding the Orchid
Doomsday Clock
Home
Hummer
Starz
Tarantula
Bullet with Butterfly Wings
Gossamer
For God and Country
Thirty-Three
Rocket
Winterlong
To Sheila
Glass and the Ghost Children
Cherub Rock
1979
Tonight, Tonight
Neverlost
Thats the Way (My Love is)
Disarm
Zero
Untitled
Shame
SilverFuck
Annie-Dog
Muzzle

Luxembourg:

Lucky 13
7 Shades of Black

Zitadelle Spandau:

Crying Tree
Crush
Daydrean
Drown

Orange Peel 6/23:

Come on (Let's Go)
Blue Skies Bring Tears
Translucent
Starla
?
With Every light

Orange Peel 6/24:
If All Goes Wrong/I Dont Mind

Orange Peel 6/26:
Mama
In My body

Orange Peel 6/27:
Im Doing the Best I Can - New
! - New
TAFH
Fuck You
Rotten Apples

Orange Peel 6/29:
Heavy Metal Machine

Orange Peel 7/2:
That's the Way

Orange Peel 7/5:
Psalm 131
The Leaving Lament


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Orange Peel/Fillmore Stats by Virex Kills

Number of shows so far: 10
Number of different songs: 51
Number of songs not played until residencies: 10 (not including brand new songs)
Brand new songs: 7
Songs not played since residencies began: 1 (Crush)
Older songs never played live: 2 (Translucent, In My Body)

Songs not played at The Orange Peel: 0
Songs not played at The Fillmore: 24

Notes:
"I Dont Mind" is also titled "If All Goes Wrong" (6.27)
"Question Mark" is also titled "?" (6.27)


NUMBER OF TIMES PLAYED (OUT OF 9)/SONG TITLE/DATES PLAYED
*=debuted at The Orange Peel
**=debuted at The Fillmore
Teases not includ3d.


02 ! (6.27, 6.30)*
04 1979 (6.23, 6.24, 6.27, 6.30)
01 7 Shades of Black (6.26)
04 The Aeroplane Flies High (6.27, 6.29, 7.2, 7.3)*
02 Annie-Dog (6.26, 7.5)
05 Bleeding the Orchid (6.23, 6.27, 6.29, 7.5//7.15)
09 Blue Skies Bring Tears (6.23, 6.24, 6.26, 6.27, 6.29, 6.30, 7.2, 7.5//7.15)*
10 Bullet With Butterfly Wings (6.23, 6.24, 6.26, 6.27, 6.29, 6.30, 7.2, 7.3, 7.5//7.15)
06 Cherub Rock (6.24, 6.27, 6.29, 6.30, 7.2, 7.5)
04 (Come On) Let's Go (6.23, 6.24, 6.26, 6.30)*
04 The Crying Tree of Mercury (6.24, 6.26, 6.29, 7.2)
02 Daydream (6.23, 7.2)
05 Disarm (6.23, 6.26, 6.29, 7.2//7.15)
08 Doomsday Clock (6.23, 6.24, 6.26, 6.27, 6.29, 7.2, 7.5//7.15)
04 Drown (6.26, 6.30, 7.3//7.15)
03 For God and Country (6.23, 7.2//7.15)
04 Fuck You (6.27, 6.29, 6.30 7.2)*
04 Glass and the Ghost Children (6.23, 6.26, 6.29//7.15)
07 Gossamer (6.23, 6.24, 6.26, 6.30, 7.3, 7.5//7.15)
06 Heavy Metal Machine (6.29, 6.30, 7.2, 7.3, 7.5//7.15)*
03 Home (6.23, 6.24, 6.29)
10 Hummer (6.23, 6.24, 6.26, 6.27, 6.29, 6.30, 7.2, 7.3, 7.5//7.15)
01 I'm Doing the Best I Can (6.27)*
08 If All Goes Wrong (6.24, 6.26, 6.27, 6.29, 7.2, 7.3, 7.5//7.15)*
05 In My Body (6.26, 6.27, 6.29, 6.30, 7.2)*
02 The Leaving Lament (7.5//7.15)*
08 Lucky 13 (6.23, 6.24, 6.26, 6.27, 6.29, 7.2, 7.3//7.15)
07 Mama (6.26, 6.27, 6.29, 6.30, 7.2, 7.3, 7.5)*
02 Muzzle (6.24, 6.26)
06 Neverlost (6.24, 6.27, 6.29, 7.3, 7.5//7.15)
01 Psalm 131 (7.5)*
07 Question Mark (6.23, 6.24, 6.26, 6.27, 6.29, 7.2, 7.3)*
04 Rocket (6.23, 6.26, 6.29, 7.2)
04 Rotten Apples (6.27, 7.3, 7.5//7.15)*
04 Shame (6.23, 6.27, 7.2, 7.5)
08 Silverfuck (6.23, 6.24, 6.26, 6.27, 6.30, 7.2, 7.5//7.15)
06 Stand Inside Your Love (6.24, 6.26, 6.29, 6.30, 7.2, 7.5)
09 Starla (6.23, 6.26, 6.27, 6.29, 6.30, 7.2, 7.3, 7.5//7.15)*
09 Starz (6.23, 6.24, 6.26, 6.27, 6.30, 7.2, 7.3, 7.5//7.15)
10 Tarantula (6.23, 6.24, 6.26, 6.27, 6.29, 6.30, 7.2, 7.3, 7.5//7.15)
03 That's the Way (7.2, 7.3//7.15)
03 Thirty-Three (6.24, 6.27, 7.3)
04 To Sheila (6.24, 6.30, 7.2//7.15)
09 Today (6.23, 6.24, 6.26, 6.27, 6.30, 7.2, 7.3, 7.5//7.15)
10 Tonight, Tonight (6.23, 6.24, 6.26, 6.27, 6.29, 6.30, 7.2, 7.3, 7.5//7.15)
02 Translucent (6.23, 6.29)*
10 United States (6.23, 6.24, 6.26, 6.27, 6.29, 6.30, 7.2, 7.3, 7.5//7.15)
06 Untitled (6.24, 6.26, 6.27, 6.29, 6.30//7.15)
02 Winterlong (6.29, 7.3)
04 With Every Light (6.23, 6.27, 6.29, 7.3)*
10 Zero (6.23, 6.24, 6.26, 6.27, 6.29, 6.30, 7.2, 7.3, 7.5//7.15)


SONGS PLAYED EVERY NIGHT: 6
Bullet With Butterfly Wings
Hummer
Tarantula
Tonight, Tonight
United States
Zero

SONGS PLAYED ONLY ONCE AT RESIDENCIES: 3
7 Shades of Black (6.26)
I'm Doing the Best I Can (6.27)
Psalm 131 (7.5)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Songs Played by Album



BSIDES + OTHER:
Drown - Singles Soundtrack
Gossamer
Untitled - Greatest Hits: Rotten Apples

PRE-GISH:
Translucent - Mashed Potatoes

GISH: (2/10)
Daydream
Crush

SIAMESE DREAM: (6/13)
Cherub Rock
Today
Hummer
Rocket
Disarm
Silverfuck

PISCES ISCARIOT: (1/14)
Starla

MELLON COLLIE: (7/28)
Tonight, Tonight
Zero
Bullet With Butterfly Wings
Fuck You
Muzzle
Thirty-Three
1979

THE AEROPLANE FLIES HIGH BOX SET (2/23):
Rotten Apples
TAFH

ADORE: (3/15)
To Sheila
Annie-Dog
Shame

MACHINA: (6/15)
Stand Inside Your Love
Heavy Metal Machine
Glass and the Ghost Children
The Crying Tree of Mercury
With Every Light
Blue Skies

MACHINA 2: (4/25)
Lucky 13
Home
In My Body

JUDAS O: (1/16)
Winterlong

ZEITGEIST: (10/12)
Doomsday Clock
7 Shades of Black
Bleeding the Orchid
That's the Way
Tarantula
Starz
United States
Neverlost
Come On Let's Go
For God and Country

NEW SONGS:
?
If All Goes Wrong
Mama
I'm Doing the Best I can
The Leaving Lament
!
Psalm 131

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Soundcheck/rumors/Rehearsals

Well we know from Soundcheck that we have these songs on the docket:
TAFH
Window Paine
Apples & Oranjes
Ava Adore
New Song
Death from Above

Also from reports from Music Garage/Congress, these titles:

Bodies
Geek USA
Ruby
TOASE

Rehearsing at the Orange Peel 6/25/07 (thanks to Angie):

Cherry
Bury Me
Frail and Bedazzled
Fuck You
Heavy Metal Machine
In My Body

Soundcheck 6/29/07 from Angie:
Quiet
Mayo
Eye

Songs on 7/5 setlist not played:

Orpheus Descending, Death from Above


Please feel free to fill in the blanks.

Updated: 7/16/07

Credit goes to Virex for the much improved Orange Peel/Fillmore exclusive section.
Credit also goes to Angie for supply texts of the 6/27 show and for 6/29 soundcheck
Its been fun Orange Peel, next up, Fillmore.
Old 07-16-07, 11:50 PM
  #322  
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SFGate review of the sunday show wasn't good..
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/articl...G2SR1AM014.DTL
Smashing Pumpkins reunite, in name only

Aidin Vaziri, Chronicle Pop Music Critic

The Smashing Pumpkins' Billy Corgan faces the crowd Sunda... Smashing Pumpkins frontman Billy Corgan sings during the ... The Smashing Pumpkins' new bass player, Ginger Reyes, pla... The Smashing Pumpkins kick off an 11-night residency at t...

(07-16) 12:27 PDT SAN FRANCISCO -- If you squinted long and hard enough on Sunday, you might think you were watching an actual reunion of the Smashing Pumpkins, the unrepentant arena-rock act that sold millions of albums in the 1990s. In reality, it was just a passable crew of look-alikes frontman Billy Corgan had pulled together with the group's original drummer, Jimmy Chamberlain, for the first of an 11-night run at the Fillmore. He even made sure their hair color matched the originals'.

After recording a solo album two years ago that was met with even more indifference than his first post-Pumpkins project, Zwan (both of which, incidentally, also featured Chamberlain), Corgan announced his intention to revive the group with a full-page ad in the Chicago Tribune: "I want my band back, and my songs, and my dreams." At least in name, he did. Guitarist James Iha and bassist D'Arcy Wretzky were either not invited or turned down the offer to relive past glories.

Some have suggested that Corgan just wants his old bank balance. Never mind that the depleted lineup for this reunion allows him to cut the staff salaries in half. Using a familiar brand to play in one city for two weeks seems like a great way to save on gas money.

The Smashing Pumpkins' comeback album, "Zeitgeist," meanwhile, arrived in stores last week with different bonus tracks for different retailers, meaning fans had to buy four versions of the LP if they wanted to hear all the new songs. That's one way to make sure it gets past Hannah Montana on the charts.

That didn't deter the hardcore fans from the Fillmore. Some even paid hundreds of dollars for tickets on Craigslist, which left very little for the $80 hoodies at the merchandise counter.

The band compensated by trudging through a three-hour-plus set on Sunday (and well into Monday) that included many of its most rare and popular songs but few of its actual best. Several of the tunes were saddled with long-winded guitar solos that not only stretched them beyond recognition but made them feel interchangeable.

Given that the Pumpkins made it through only three songs in the first half-hour, you had to wonder whether Corgan was actually being incredibly generous or just punishing all the people who'd yelled out for his old band's hits during his solo tour.

With his cleanly shaved head, white uniform and blank stare, the singer looked a bit like a mad scientist from some '40s horror movie. Playing against the backdrop of an electric cage (yes, despite all his rage) only confirmed the impression. "I'm not tuned into the zeitgeist tonight," he said early on. But that didn't stop him.

The new songs tried hard to capture the spirit of the old songs. Mostly, though, tracks like "Tarantula" and "Doomsday Clock" felt too restrained, too well oiled to compete with the simple angst of the band's best material.

Still, despite the lack of recognizable tunes, the first hour of the concert felt like an event. The second, built around a bland but pretty acoustic interlude and the airing of high school staples like "Disarm" and "Bullet With Butterfly Wings," was compelling enough to stand through. Watching Chamberlin bash the drums on the old songs alone seemed to justify pulling the name out of cold storage.

The third hour and beyond, however, were frankly wretched, as Corgan and company slogged through a completely joyless dirge that incessantly played on the Pumpkins' infamous loud-quiet-loud dynamic. At one point it looked as if the band itself -- with new recruits guitarist Jeff Schroeder, bassist Ginger Reyes and keyboardist Lisa Harriton -- was ready to nod off.

By midnight the lobby of the Fillmore was just as crowded as the main floor. About an hour later, with no end in sight to the infernal jamming onstage, the singer came up for air to taunt in his most nasally register, "You ain't going anywhere! You ain't going anywhere! You ain't going anywhere!"

It seemed like a challenge too good to pass up. It's quite possible the Smashing Pumpkins -- in one form or another -- are still playing the same horrible funeral hymn at this very moment.
Old 07-17-07, 12:38 AM
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The band compensated by trudging through a three-hour-plus set on Sunday (and well into Monday) that included many of its most rare and popular songs but few of its actual best.
Nice joke commentary by the reviewer here.

Why not tell us what should be played instead?

One reviewer gives them crap, because they didnt play enough hits..another gives them crap for playing too many popular songs..but not the best songs.

boo fucking hoo.
Old 07-17-07, 06:21 AM
  #324  
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Originally Posted by Jackskeleton

In the long run, without the two members of the band I believe the technical term for this action is "Pulling an Axl"
Neither D'Arcy nor James Iha were anywhere near as responsible for the sound of SP the way that Slash or Izzy Stradlin were responsible for the sound of GNR.
Old 07-17-07, 08:25 AM
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Originally Posted by Suprmallet
Neither D'Arcy nor James Iha were anywhere near as responsible for the sound of SP the way that Slash or Izzy Stradlin were responsible for the sound of GNR.

Exactly, you can't even compare the two situations, not even close.

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