nothingfails

I guess that's true, but with the first three albums, Alive practically removes any need for the early albums IMO, barring the debut of course. The live versions are so much better. Hell, even with Rock N' Roll All Nite, the most played out song of their career, the Alive version, overplayed as it is, eclipses the original so much it's not even funny. Granted, one could argue the same with Alive II (and III for the later years), but I think the 76-77 studio output was much stronger than 74-75 so the studio albums are still worth the checking out.

duse

Maybe for the more popular songs, but I love Gene's voice on "Goin' Blind." Probably one of my favorite KISS songs of all time. Even if that'd been on Alive, it could not have been matched.

Of course, it's been notated that "Alive" was not "live."

Jason

Considering all of KISS' albums are readily available and bargain priced, the discussion of "which ones to get" is a little lame. There are really only four that are generally considered bad (Unmasked, Elder, and the Gene and Peter solo albums), and a saavy internet shopper should be able to get all four of those for $30. Certainly there are better places to start than others, but if your a fan, there's really not much of an excuse for not having everything.

nodeerforamonth

You mean not more "live" than any other "live" album that was around the same time period.

Last I heard, yeah, SOME of it was "doctored" or touched up in the studio, but they didn't really have the money at the time to "touch it up" it as much as people claim it was "touched up".

nothingfails

I think "Crazy Nights" and "Hot In The Shade" are more generally referred to as bad than Unmasked and The Elder. Granted, those two albums have it's detractors, but there's someone who defends it for someone who bashes it. Crazy Nights and HITS are both generally regarded as weak efforts from a band that should've known better. CN and HITS were both successful from a sales/MTV standpoint (Forever was a top 10 hit after all), but I think they generally make a "bottom 5 Kiss albums" list. Unmasked and Elder were both commercial flops in America (I preface "in America" because Kiss were actually at their peak in popularity in Australia in 1980) but both albums have some great stuff under the surface, plus Kiss were considered outdated by 1980-1981 anyways. Carnival Of Souls is generally regarded as one of the worst Kiss albums as well, if not THE worst because gloomy 90's rock wasn't as easy for Kiss to try on as disco and hair metal.

cultshock

Agree with all of that. I think Ace's solo album is brilliant. When I first heard it back in '78, Ace immediately became my favourite member (still is).

cultshock

Yeah, I don't think Alive had too much done to it, but Alive II is a completely different story. "Hard Luck Woman" and "Tomorrow and Tonight" weren't even really live, but completely studio creations recorded and added later.

DaveWadding

I bought a new KISS CD today! I bought the 20 Century Masters Vol. 2, which covers the whole non makeup period that I'm not really fond of outside of a few songs, PLUS is has the 2 songs from Creatures of the Night that should have been on Gold but they traded for rare tracks from Killers instead.

nodeerforamonth

And I think "I Want You" was a soundcheck with audience noise thrown in.

B5Erik

My personal top 10 KISS albums:

1. Revenge
2. KISS
3. Carnival of Souls
4. Hotter than Hell
5. Asylum
6. Rock and Roll Over
7. Dressed to Kill
8. Creatures of the Night
9. Lick it Up
10. Love Gun

I consider all of those to be "Must Own" KISS studio albums, along with Destroyer.

Rocketdog2000

A great album, to be sure, but were you aware that aside from Vinnie Vincent playing guitar on the album (and really, mostly only on the songs he co-wrote), the following musicians also lend their six string talents to Creatures Of The Night...

Robben Ford - guitar solo on "I Still Love You"

Steve Farris (pre - Mr. Mister) - guitar solo on "Creatures Of The Night"

Bob Kulick - solo on "Danger", and a bunch of other stuff.

On top of that, most of the bass tracks were played by session bassist Jimmy Haslip - albeit, after being shown outlines of them by Gene, who a)- didn't have time to record them properly himself, and b) couldn't quite get the right "feel" for them. A couple of the other band members also contributed bass - Paul played it on the title track, and Eric Carr played it on "I Still Love You".

Rocketdog2000

BIG difference of opinion concerning Carnival of Souls, and your placement of it on your list. It is by far the one album anybody could do with out as far as KISS goes. I have tried and tried to find ANYTHING worth listening to on it, again and again - but this album just leaves me cold. I'd take Unmasked, The Elder or even Crazy Nights in a heartbeat over Carnival of Souls on any day of the week.

nothingfails

I'll play along with the top 10 albums too then

1. Destroyer
2. Creatures Of The Night
3. KISS
4. Revenge
5. Love Gun
6. Alive
7. Dynasty (I know this ranking is controversial but it was the second "proper" Kiss album I owned after Destroyer)
8. Rock N' Roll Over
9. Lick It Up
10. The Elder (controversial choice but I love it)

bigjim25

My favorite KISS CDs
Studio wise - Revenge (favs <small>Domino, Spit, I Just Wanna, Unholy, Take It Off, God Gave R&R to You II, Thou Shalt Not</small>)
Complilation - KISS GOLD

B5Erik

I love Carnival of Souls.

The thing is dark, heavy, ambitious - one heck of an album to build on the darker stuff that KISS had done over the years (songs like "Strange Ways," "Goin' Blind," "Watchin' You," "She," "God of Thunder," "Almost Human," "Mr. Blackwell," "Under the Rose," "Not for the Innocent," "War Machine," "Unholy," etc).

From Carnival I particularly like "Hate," which has an AMAZING drum beat that works in and around a KILLER guitar riff. That is just a nasty, brutal song that is played with a lot of finesse that still manages to have a strong melody. "Master and Slave," is just a great, dynamic song with ANOTHER killer riff and possibly the heaviest part of any KISS song ever in the pre-chorus and the chorus (same riff). The vocal hook is brilliant, too!

"Rain," is a great, moody song with some killer melodies. "Childhoods End," is Gene's masterpiece. A song that finally follows up "Goin' Blind." It is mature, and introspective - and completely fictional, but still heartfelt. Very much influenced by The Beatles, but heavier.

"Jungle," is one of the very best KISS songs ever. Bruce wrote the music and did a BRILLIANT job. He played the guitar and bass on this one, and it has a sense of groove that few KISS songs have. Kind of like if Flea, The Edge, and Bono got together to write a song for KISS. Kind of. "In the Mirror," is another standout track, this one very much influenced by Jimi Hendrix - it's the most "Rock and Roll," song on the album, and it is great!

Bruce Kulick and Eric Singer really shine on this album.

Sure, it IS dark, and it IS heavy (VERY heavy in spots), and it is VERY 90's, but it's still a brilliant album.

And every KISS fan should have it - like Destroyer and The Elder before it, this was one of KISS' most ambitious albums, and it was a break from the usual KISS party Rock/Metal stuff.

B5Erik

Yeah, Creatures is definitely an album with a barrage of musicians playing on it - much like Psycho Circus!

And it is odd that they often have someone else play Bass as Gene plays the songs really well live. I think it's just a case of their being perfectionists in the studio - wanting to get the "feel" absolutely perfect, which is the opposite of what they did in the 70's when they had the "feel" of a raw, Rock and Roll band! (Which, actually, Revenge and Carnival of Souls both returned to - even if the performances were "perfect," they still had the "feel" of a raw Rock and Roll/Metal band.)

Jason

I haven't played Carnival of Souls in a long time, and really never played Unmasked much at all, so I started playing some tracks from both of them this morning, and you know what?

They're both pretty decent albums!

Carnival of Souls main problem is that it's unfinished. Some backing vocals, some editing here and there to tighten up some songs, shorten codas, etc, and it would have been a great follow up to Revenge. It's a shame they abandoned it.

Unmasked, while very thin sounding and disco-ish, has some really catchy songs. Lots of big choruses, very radio friendly. "Easy As It Seems" has a really cool solo too. Maybe I'm just in the right mood for it (semi-vegitative, home from work sick), but it's working for me better than it ever did before. Gotta say the song Shandi is pretty weak, despite being the hit.

Neither album is Rock and Roll Over or Revenge, but they're worth a spin. Not going to press my luck and attempt the Peter Criss solo album though

DaveWadding

Shandi kills me. It's a GREAT song. Beatles-ish "power pop". Sweet harmonies. but it's not a "KISS song" per se.

nothingfails

I never understood why Gold ends with Killers and not Creatures if it wants to cover the makeup years and makeup years only. Millennium Collection: 20th Century Masters Vol. 2 should've covered Revenge and Psycho Circus as well. Kiss didn't do enough in the 90's to merit a third Greatest Hits album for those years only.

DaveWadding

Yeah, I was a little miffed that God Gave RNR to You was one the 3rd one and not the one I bought.

nothingfails

add God Gave Rock N' Roll To You, Unholy and Psycho Circus (plus maybe a few other 80's cuts like I Still Love You and Who Wants To Be Lonely) and Vol. 2 combined with Gold would be the absolute best 3 disc KISS collection imaginable IMO.

DaveWadding

definitely agree with you.

Kromax

During the now thirty years (holy crap, I can't believe that's what the math comes out to!), my favorite albums have varied. If you had asked me in '77, I would've answered Alive II, hands down. It was my first Kiss record, and I played the you-know-what out of it. I remember eventually listening to GOT on Destroyer and thinking, "man, that is way too slow. Give me the live version any day." At one point, I would've said Ace's solo album, which has been praised elsewhere in this post. I was always an Ace fan (as a 10 year old, I just liked his make up and his persona--Gene was too evil looking and Paul too feminine). When Revenge came out, it blew me away, and I still love it. Heck, even my urban/pop music-loving wife likes Spit and God Gave... Occasionally, I'll get the taste for Dressed to Kill, because of its relative obscurity. Ask me today, and I'll say the first disc from Alive II.

Interestingly, I eventually came over to the dark side (read--more into Gene than Ace) possibly because of my rebellious teen nature. Nah--that's not being honest. The real reason? Easier to sing along with Gene's songs than Paul's. I ain't no soprano.

B5Erik

I was just watching Attack of the Phantoms and listened to the commentary track - it's not Gene & Paul! It's better! Carmine Caridi, Deborah Ryan, and a guy who was the mechanical gorilla that Chopper punches and was also the "whipper" in the Chamber of Thrills do the commentary - and it's really quite interesting. Carmine just gushes about how great Anthony Zerbe was and how nice the KISS guys were - and how much fun they had making the movie. Deborah Ryan ends up really liking the movie for what it was - a camp classic! Good stuff.

Supermallet

I finally got both Kissologies, and I'm loving them. I came into the band very, very late (only about two and a half years ago), so I didn't even get to see their reunion tour, but I've been voraciously eating up everything I can get my hands on, making these sets perfect. Now if only David Bowie would do the same thing, I'd be in heaven.

As for best Kiss albums, I would say you could make an argument for any of their albums between their debut through Love Gun. This was the period where they pretty much could do no wrong, and just played some fucking awesome rock and roll. My personal favorite of that period is Dressed To Kill, mostly for the tracks that didn't get as much airtime like "Room Service" and "Anything For My Baby." Even songs that get better versions on Alive (specifically "Rock Bottom" and "Rock and Roll All Nite") still sound great on the original album.

After the classic period, I personally think Dynasty is a vastly underrated album. Yes, they started going in eighteen different directions at once, but their disco stuff is as good as The Stones' dabbling in the genre (and really, they stand as some of the better examples of a rock to disco crossover), and the Ace tracks are highlights for me. Which brings me to the realm of the solo albums. Personally, I think Ace's solo album is actually more consistent than any single Kiss album (pretty much every Kiss album has a song or two that I'm not crazy about), and is just a brilliant slab of late 70's rock. Paul's was second best, but his album felt like a Keith Richards solo album: It had the sound of the band, but not the feel of it. You could feel the absence of Gene and Ace. I know Gene's album isn't particularly well liked, but I admire him for trying to go outside the box of Kiss and do something a little more varied, even if it wasn't entirely successful. I don't think I've ever liked a Peter Criss song (the fact that all of his songs sound like they're being written for Rod Stewart doesn't help), so an entire album of them is enough to make me puke.

Creatures of the Night is probably the last truly great Kiss album, an album which just rocked your balls off. Lick It Up is a good companion, although by then you could tell they were losing direction again, which they promptly did afterwards all the way until Revenge. Revenge is certainly a worthy comeback album, but it suffers from the same issue many early 90's albums had: It's too long. These artists who had confined themselves to 30 to 40 minutes of music (with the occasional double album) suddenly found themselves with 70 minutes, an extra half an hour, and instead of just using their discipline to create an amazing 30 minute album, the group decided it was more worth it to pad out the extra space (the album is just shy of 50 minutes) and the filler shows. I'm sure B5Erik will have my head for saying it. Revenge is certainly the definitive late-era Kiss album, but it's not perfect.

As far as their live stuff goes, I remember once reading somewhere that the 70's was the decade of live albums, with searing albums by Rush, Eric Burdon, and The Who, along with mega chart topping live albums like Frampton Comes Alive, but no 70's live document is more legendary or incendiary than Kiss Alive! Even with the touch-ups, it's still the best live album of the era, and Kiss' all around best album. Even non-Kiss fans should own this, that's how great it is. The only problem with it is that it doesn't have any of the amazing material from Destroyer, Rock and Roll Over, or Love Gun, which is why we have Alive II. I love Alive II, but to me it doesn't hold a candle to the first one. III and IV are jokes.

Anyway, that's my doctoral thesis on Kiss.

Edit: Oh yeah, and what I need from Vol. III is a full Revenge concert, the full MTV Unplugged Concert, and a full reunion concert, whatever one is generally considered to be one of the better nights.